Another shooting - San Bernadino California.

[Hetta]

So when you say the "crime rate is no lower"...lower that what?

Good point. No lower than countries where personal firearms are banned.

 

[My Shalom]

Well, we could always send a message to the terrorists that are celebrating this evil.
Call the media, take the naked stripped bodies of these terrorists to a pig farm and feed them to the pigs.

According to Islam, that insures these terrorists don't see paradise after all. But rather enter
Jahannam, Hell.
Pigs eat everything but the teeth an the hair.

 

[Hetta]

Well, we could always send a message to the terrorists that are celebrating this evil.
Call the media, take the naked stripped bodies of these terrorists to a pig farm and feed them to the pigs.

According to Islam, that insures these terrorists don't see paradise after all. But rather enter
Jahannam, Hell.
Pigs eat everything but the teeth an the hair.

And you don't think this would ramp up yet more hatred?

 

[bhsmte]

Fair point; although we do have to admit that not all crimes are motivated by the same thing; even if it is the same type of crime.

Of course, when did I say all crimes had the same motivation?

That is why you investigate.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Of course, when did I say all crimes had the same motivation?

That is why you investigate.

You did not, but you said to keep things like this from happening?

 

[TheBear]

No. Both are acts of terrorism and should be handled as such.

That's what I was thinking. But, in reading some of the remarks here, it looks like some people are bending over backwards and going out of their way to establish a narrative that since Muslims were involved, the very last thing we should be considering is that it was an act of terrorism. I'm trying to figure out what motivates such thinking.

(this might merit a thread topic of it's own)

 

[TLK Valentine]

Well, we could always send a message to the terrorists that are celebrating this evil.
Call the media, take the naked stripped bodies of these terrorists to a pig farm and feed them to the pigs.

According to Islam, that insures these terrorists don't see paradise after all. But rather enter
Jahannam, Hell.
Pigs eat everything but the teeth an the hair.

How very Christian...

 

[TLK Valentine]

And you don't think this would ramp up yet more hatred?

I suspect that's the idea...

 

[bhsmte]

I find it fascinating that our country has had gun ownership from the get-go- but it is only in very recent times that we've had crazies running around with mass shootings so often. The problem is obviously not the guns. The problem is dangerous ideologies and mental illness.

However, too many seem to think the solution is to get rid of guns, when the vast majority of gun owners are responsible and don't kill anyone with them ever. Their goal is to disarm the populace so the people have no means of self-defense. They want to take our rights away and then they are going to censor people's speech. This is a very dangerous slippery slope some want to take us down. Rest assured though, the 'take away our rights' advocates will be some of the first sacrificed on the altar of whatever totalitarianism they were pushing for- because history has taught us that. Be careful what you wish for.

I couldn't agree more.

With that said, I am all for tightening up gun control. The fact that someone on the do not fly list who is a suspected terrorist can walk into a store and buy a gun is crazy and should be corrected immediately. I would think most would agree with this. Background checks should be more vigorous and no one should be able to obtain a gun legally without a background check.

Now, will any of the above stop motivated people from obtaining weapons, no it won't, because all you need to obtain weapons is money. Just as, all you need to acquire illegal drugs is money and we saw how well prohibition stopped people from obtaining alcohol.

You have to reduce demand for guns and the desire to use them to kill people, to make real inroads.

 

[Belk]

So does that mean that EVERY shooting is terrorism?

No. Terrorism has a specific definition. An act that is designed to make people afraid in order to advance a political agenda.

 

[nightflight]

A man who has been working in the area said he noticed a half-dozen Middle Eastern men in the area in recent weeks, but decided not to report anything since he did not wish to racially profile those people.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2015...ch-redlands-home-tied-to-suspect-syed-farook/

 

[Belk]

That's what I was thinking. But, in reading some of the remarks here, it looks like some people are bending over backwards and going out of their way to establish a narrative that since Muslims were involved, the very last thing we should be considering is that it was an act of terrorism. I'm trying to figure out what motivates such thinking.

(this might merit a thread topic of it's own)

I have not seen that. What I have seen is people upset that it is assumed to be terrorism as soon as a Muslim does something but that when the crazy is a Christian it is treated differently. But perhaps I'm mixing up my threads.

 

[bhsmte]

You did not, but you said to keep things like this from happening?

How do you identify the signs of a potential threat before it happens? You understand the motivation behind it, so you can better identify signs people give off.

 

[Thunder Peel]

So what will the narrative be from the White House this time: workplace violence, right-wing extremist or unrelated incident? Don't forget to politicize it and use more innocent deaths to push gun control.

 

[bhsmte]

So what will the narrative be from the White House this time: workplace violence, right-wing extremist or unrelated incident? Don't forget to politicize it and use more innocent deaths to push gun control.

White house and the president has spoken.

He said, it could be terrorism or it could involved workplace violence and they will let the investigation decide.

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

But the crime figures don't bear this out. Crime is no lower, which it should be if criminals really were "deterred."

That statement is utter nonsense. The US Crime statistics from 1960-2014 bear out the fact that violent crimes are decreasing per 100,000 people as a general trend.

Most violent crime levels appear to have peaked in 1991 and steadily decrease thereafter into 2014 --with the notable exception of rape which peaks in 1992 and decreases until 2014, .

i will not attempt to link this trend of decreasing crime to increasing gun ownership since correlation is not causuality, and other statistics would have to be examined to determine whether causual or correlation.

 

[AirPo]

San Bernardino, California (CNN)[Breaking news update at 12:13 p.m. ET]

San Bernardino shooter Syed Rizwan Farook was in touch over the phone and via social media with more than one international terrorism subject who the FBI were already investigating, law enforcement officials said.

It appears that Farook was radicalized, which contributed to his motive, though other things -- like workplace grievances -- may have also played a role, other law enforcement sources said.

 

[TerranceL]

It's newsworthy when it happens in France.

In America, it's just another day, another mass murder.

The stubbornness of the pro gun lobby is something to behold.

If it wasn't newsworthy, IE: just another day...

You wouldn't be talking about it.

Put some thought into what you are writing.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

So what will the narrative be from the White House this time: workplace violence, right-wing extremist or unrelated incident? Don't forget to politicize it and use more innocent deaths to push gun control.

Because this totally is not politicizing the event....

 

[HannahT]

So, I feel there definitely is a deterrent factor at play here for certain types of crimes.

The issue is that, everyone on both sides is making their entire position and arguments all based on what would happen in an active mass shooter scenario. The discussion shouldn't begin or end with that... Mass shootings are rare...sexual assaults, basic assaults, burglaries, armed robberies, and home invasions are far more common than mass shooter scenarios.

If I were a criminal I would avoid people if I knew they were armed too. Yet, I'm not sure that is a good starting point.

We have had a couple of shooters that didn't get killed in these mass shootings, and they were clearly mentally ill. Now, I think many realize that just because your mentally ill doesn't mean your dangerous! Yet, we also realize there are some that clearly are. There were red flags in the cases of the shooters we have in custody, but legally we couldn't do anything about those red flags. That's a problem, and our country clearly hasn't figured out HOW to balance that.

I was hearing on a couple of networks last night that neighbors were concerned about the couple's house in question today. They have many people coming and going from the house, and they were working on something inside the garage. I would assume now from what I'm hearing it could have been the bombs they found. They also noticed an overabundance of packages being delivered, which could have been the parts to make the bombs. They were being deterred from reporting this, because of the fear of being accused of racially profiling them. Our country now has a tendency to jump to that conclusion today, and we also haven't figured out a good way to balance that either.

I'm also not sure what any law on the books would effect the illegal gun trade that most people realize is there. I know where I live its present, and they are used in many crimes. Some people assume those guns are from home burglaries, and similar circumstances. They have no idea of the flow coming in and out of this country of these illegal guns.

There are so many factors in these circumstances, but sadly the media would rather stir the pot of emotions than dig deep to discuss them. Its brings in more ratings to have those that think everyone needs at least one gun, or the other extreme of no one would have should have any. Simplistic viewpoints like that don't solve anything, and yet they are popular on all networks to use both points of view against each other - or use side as a whipping boy towards the other. Then you have the stupid politicians blaming the other side, when in reality they are the reasons we can't get past any of the roadblocks discussed above. I mean if the other side says it will work we will say it isn't. The media culture and the political culture both show to me that neither are capable of discussing anything.