Tzitzits

[yonah_mishael]

YES you are right, TORAH is the Pentateuch.

It's ironic that you said that, since a lot of Orthodox Jews and converts also, for some reason, call the Talmud "Torah" too, but I'm glad you did.

And no, I don't need to use specific words on an internet forum to "look cool". Why would you say that?

I think you're the only one here who has not used "Torah" and "Pentateuch" interchangeably. Don't blame us for your misuse of the terms.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Adam's sons and daughters did not commit incest.
There were others on earth.

Who? Where does the Torah say that?

 

[HebrewVaquero]

Adam's sons and daughters did not commit incest.
There were others on earth.

???I clicked here to read about Tzitzits and ya'll are talking about incest???

I'm thinking even in the 21st century some form of Tzitzits are doable. But not mixing different materials in fabrics? Oh my, how is that done nowadays?

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I was going to make some tzitzit but I forgot. I need to do that. I think they are cool.

And it is a commandment.

 

[Pentateuch and Yeshua]

Adam's sons and daughters did not commit incest.
There were others on earth.

Where does it say that?
The book of Enoch tells us that Cain took his sister as his wife.

I think you're the only one here who has not used "Torah" and "Pentateuch" interchangeably. Don't blame us for your misuse of the terms.

Where? I only expressly say "Pentateuch" explicitly to avoid all the "Oral Torah is Torah too" debates that would undoubtedly arise. Is that a problem for you?

 

[yonah_mishael]

I just bought two new tallitot knatot last week. They came with tsitsit already tied on them, but I generally prefer to tie myself (since the commandment says to make tsitsit and not just to wear them). So, I'll probably buy some new strings and tie them on in a few weeks. I'm headed home for Thanksgiving on Tuesday.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Where? I only expressly say "Pentateuch" explicitly to avoid all the "Oral Torah is Torah too" debates that would undoubtedly arise. Is that a problem for you?

But then you made the comment above regarding the "Torah of the Pentateuch" or some such. No one had commented on your use of Pentateuch until you said that.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

.

 

[yonah_mishael]

I have never heard any orthodox Jew or convert, or any Jew in general refer to the Talmud as Torah.

Well, we talk about "Torah" study and that means also study of the Talmud. "Torah" is a comprehensive word for the entire Jewish way of life - Judaism. Just as "Israel" is used as a comprehensive term for all Jews - especially in klal Yisrael.

 

[Pentateuch and Yeshua]

Do you come to discuss scripture or just pick holes in the details of the wording people use?

 

[Sheeple Shepherd]

Where does it say that?
The book of Enoch tells us that Cain took his sister as his wife.



Where? I only expressly say "Pentateuch" explicitly to avoid all the "Oral Torah is Torah too" debates that would undoubtedly arise. Is that a problem for you?

I'm bored.........Read Gen 4

9And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper? 10And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. 11And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; 12When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. 13And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear. 14Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. 15And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

16And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Do you come to discuss scripture or just pick holes in the details of the wording people use?

I'm a language teacher. I don't think we can have meaningful discussions without using the same jargon. If we mean different things when we say "Torah," how can we rightfully discuss Torah between us? We can have no conversation if we are not using the terms in the same way. Does this bother you?

 

[Sheeple Shepherd]

Where does it say that?
The book of Enoch tells us that Cain took his sister as his wife.



Where? I only expressly say "Pentateuch" explicitly to avoid all the "Oral Torah is Torah too" debates that would undoubtedly arise. Is that a problem for you?

The good and the bad seed. One hears one doesn't.

Kenite
Strongs 7017 Hebrew.
patron from 7014; a Kenite or member of the tribe Kajin.

Kajin
Strongs 7014 Hebrew
Same as 7013 Kajin, the name of the first child. Cain, Kenite.

Kenite first appears in Genesis 15:19.

Then, having sent the crowds away, יהושע went into the house. And His taught ones came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the darnel of the field.” And He answering, said to them, “He who is sowing the good seed is the Son of Aḏam, and the field is the world. And the good seed, these are the sons of the reign, but the darnel are the sons of the wicked one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. And the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the messengers. “As the darnel, then, is gathered and burned in the fire, so it shall be at the end of this age.
Matthew 13:36-40

Messiah links the devil and murderer in the same seed line.

They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you are Abraham's children, do the deeds of Abraham. But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. You are doing the deeds of your father." They said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God." Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God."
John 8:39-47

Cain was the first murderer in scripture.
There is no Cain shown in the genealogy of Adam.

This is the book of the genealogy of Aḏam. In the day that Elohim created man, He made him in the likeness of Elohim. Male and female He created them, and He blessed them, and called their name ‘Aḏam’ in the day they were created. And Aḏam lived one hundred and thirty years, and brought forth a son in his own likeness, after his image, and called his name Shĕth. And after he brought forth Shĕth, the days of Aḏam were eight hundred years. And he brought forth sons and daughters. So all the days that Aḏam lived were nine hundred and thirty years, and he died.
Genesis 5:1-5

 

[yonah_mishael]

I'm bored.........Read Gen 4

13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear.14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence;V)" data-cr="#cen-NIV-94V" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px;"> I will be a restless wanderer on the earth,W)" data-cr="#cen-NIV-94W" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px;"> and whoever finds me will kill me.”

Copying HTML into this forum produces gobbledygook.

As per the content of your post, if Adam and Eve lived nearly a thousand years (per the biblical record) and "had other sons and daughters"; additionally, if Seth lived so many hundreds of years and had other sons and daughters; and if Cain himself lived hundreds of years... there would be hundreds of people who might come across Cain in his wandering longevity and strike him dead because of what he did to their uncle/great-uncle/whatever. There's nothing here that tells us that other people existed apart from the seed of Adam and his wife.

 

[yonah_mishael]

The good and the bad seed. One hears one doesn't.

Kenite
Strongs 7017 Hebrew.
patron from 7014; a Kenite or member of the tribe Kajin.

Kajin
Strongs 7014 Hebrew
Same as 7013 Kajin, the name of the first child. Cain, Kenite.

Kenite first appears in Genesis 15:19.

Then, having sent the crowds away, יהושע went into the house. And His taught ones came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the darnel of the field.” And He answering, said to them, “He who is sowing the good seed is the Son of Aḏam, and the field is the world. And the good seed, these are the sons of the reign, but the darnel are the sons of the wicked one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. And the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the messengers. “As the darnel, then, is gathered and burned in the fire, so it shall be at the end of this age.
Matthew 13:36-40

Messiah links the devil and murderer in the same seed line.

They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you are Abraham's children, do the deeds of Abraham. But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. You are doing the deeds of your father." They said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God." Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God."
John 8:39-47

Cain was the first murderer in scripture.
There is no Cain shown in the genealogy of Adam.

This is the book of the genealogy of Aḏam. In the day that Elohim created man, He made him in the likeness of Elohim. Male and female He created them, and He blessed them, and called their name ‘Aḏam’ in the day they were created. And Aḏam lived one hundred and thirty years, and brought forth a son in his own likeness, after his image, and called his name Shĕth. And after he brought forth Shĕth, the days of Aḏam were eight hundred years. And he brought forth sons and daughters. So all the days that Aḏam lived were nine hundred and thirty years, and he died.
Genesis 5:1-5

We obviously read the Bible very differently. This probably comes from your dependence on Strong's lexicon, which is famous for producing confidence in those who are ill-equipped to be engaging in hermeneutics.

 

[Pentateuch and Yeshua]

" and whoever finds me will kill me.”

You don't think Adam and Eve would have wanted vengeance for the death of Abel? Eve is so named because she is the mother of all living people (while Adam isn't the father of all, some are the seed of the serpent who came to the daughters of men and seemingly their genes survived though at least one person on the ark. Everyone must have come from Eve, we don't know how many others had been born by this time, it's somewhere between the fall and Seth's birth, and the female descendants aren't mentioned, but Cain and Abel had at least one sister at the time of Abel's death, perhaps there were many more, Adam and Eve lived a long time and were fertile for longer than we could imagine and have very little to do besides grow food, maintain a cave or basic housing and make babies


EDIT: Kenite = Cainite, surely? I don't know much about the Hebrew language but that is what immediately springs to mind when I hear/read it, regardless of what Strongs says. Kajin sounds similar to Quayin which is how some Hebrew transliterations of Cain are rendered, and in some languages J and Y are pretty much interchangeable, even older versions of English where J was the same as I.
In Gen 6:4, and expounded upon in 1 Enoch, the seed of the serpent was planted in the daughters of Cain's descendants, and appear to have genetically survived the flood through Ham, mostly in Canaan, but also through Nimrod, so I would assume that Cush held the dormant gene, and he also fathered Ramaah I believe, who was a very important part of the Hindu religion and looking deeper into him reveals that he may also have been of the corrupted seed. The study into the nephilim, origins of the O blood type and RH+ type, the sons of Ham, the so-called reptilians, giants, mythical creatures and such, and the gods and religions of the pagans is really interesting when you add the Gen 6:4 and Enoch 1 accounts into the equation.

Edit 2: Cain was surely redeemable too because he was protected with a mark, not sentenced to die. He was human. A neanderthal like Adam-Seth-etc-etc-Noah.
The Canaanites and surrounding nephilim tribes were sentenced to death, even the babies, so they were not human, but some weird corrupt species, seed of the serpent.

 

[Sheeple Shepherd]

We obviously read the Bible very differently. This probably comes from your dependence on Strong's lexicon, which is famous for producing confidence in those who are ill-equipped to be engaging in hermeneutics.

Chava stated herself that it was the descendants of Seth that FIRST began to call on the name of Yah.

The Righteous line began AGAIN with Seth.
Cain is of the seed of Lucifer.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Chava stated herself that it was the descendants of Seth that FIRST began to call on the name of Yah.

The Righteous line began AGAIN with Seth.
Cain is of the seed of Lucifer.

This is nonsense. Cain was the son of Adam and Eve. He wasn't the son of Satan.
Eve is also not the one who said that it was Seth's descendants who first became to call on the name of Yah(weh). I really don't know what text you're reading. Do you just make it up on your own?

It's the comment of the author of the Torah who says that it was the time of Enosh. It says that Seth had a son and called him Enosh (אנוש), and then it says that it was then that people began to call upon the name of Yahweh (not Yah). The text reads there: אָ֣ז הוּחַ֔ל לִקְרֹ֖א בְּשֵׁ֥ם יְהוָֽה az huchal likro b'shem Yahweh. You seriously need to read the text more literally and stop filling in gaps that simply aren't there.

 

[Sheeple Shepherd]

This is nonsense. Cain was the son of Adam and Eve. He wasn't the son of Satan.
Eve is also not the one who said that it was Seth's descendants who first became to call on the name of Yah(weh). I really don't know what text you're reading. Do you just make it up on your own?

It's the comment of the author of the Torah who says that it was the time of Enosh. It says that Seth had a son and called him Enosh (אנוש), and then it says that it was then that people began to call upon the name of Yahweh (not Yah). The text reads there: אָ֣ז הוּחַ֔ל לִקְרֹ֖א בְּשֵׁ֥ם יְהוָֽה az huchal likro b'shem Yahweh. You seriously need to read the text more literally and stop filling in gaps that simply aren't there.

Remind me to stay away from you.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Remind me to stay away from you.

Just reminding you... stay away from people who speak sense.