Tzitzits

[Lulav]

Pinacled, which string of thought are you following? I can't see it. This thread is about tzitzit and I see no connection to that in your last few posts?

 

[pinacled]

Pinacled, which string of thought are you following? I can't see it. This thread is about tzitzit and I see no connection to that in your last few posts?

I'll explain visually later. Love this.

Lots to tell, no string.
The big picture.

 

[pinacled]

Deuteronomy 30King James Version (KJV)

30 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath driven thee,
2 And shalt return unto the Lord thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
3 That then the Lord thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath scattered thee.
The Good Seed
4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the Lord thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
5 And the Lord thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
6 And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
7 And the Lord thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.
8 And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the Lord, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
9 And the Lord thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the Lord will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:
10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16 In that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the Lord thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

20 That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.




John 14King James Version (KJV)

14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

}5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

}6 Jesus saith unto him,
I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Seeds on the way side
4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the Lord thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
The good soil
5 And the Lord thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
6 And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

 

[pinacled]

Seeds on the way side
4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the Lord thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
The good soil
5 And the Lord thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
6 And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Leviticus 27:30 - And all the tithe of the land, [whether] of the seed of the land, [or] of the fruit of the tree, [is] the LORD'S: [it is] holy unto the LORD.
15Again a voice came to him a second time, "What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy."

 

[AbbaLove]

Leviticus 27:30 - And all the tithe of the land, [whether] of the seed of the land, [or] of the fruit of the tree, [is] the LORD'S: [it is] holy unto the LORD.
15Again a voice came to him a second time, "What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy."

Not sure of how all this "ties" into your understanding of a tzitzit.

Are you saying that your tzitzit is "knit" into your heart and that the knots in your tzitzit are equally "tied" to what is referred to as the OT and NT.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Oh so confident again?

Might I suggest pray about it.

Sigh...

 

[pinacled]

http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/North,-South,-East-And-West

House of prayer.
1 'O give thanks unto the LORD, for He is good, for His mercy endureth for ever.'
2 So let the redeemed of the LORD say, whom He hath redeemed from the hand of the adversary;
3 And gathered them out of the lands, from the east and from the west, from the north and from the sea.(south)

Ezekiel 48:10

"The holy allotment shall be for these, namely for the priests, toward the north 25,000 cubits in length, toward the west 10,000 in width, toward the east 10,000 in width, and toward the south 25,000 in length; and the sanctuary of the LORD shall be in its midst.

Each cardinal direction may also correlate with a time of year.
Interesting, if you face NE each corner of a Shawl would line up to the cardinal directions.
Just a thought.
Maybe just a coincidence.

 

[pinacled]

Not sure of how all this "ties" into your understanding of a tzitzit.

Are you saying that your tzitzit is "knit" into your heart and that the knots in your tzitzit are equally "tied" to what is referred to as the OT and NT.

I grew up more so in the forest surrounded by nature. I tend to relate with another analogy. A branch grafted in.
I think you might like this article.
http://www.sheshbazzardaq.com/the-sower.html

 

[Pentateuch and Yeshua]

And why would they have tzitzit in Egypt before Torah was given?

The Torah was known since before the flood, Noah knew what was clean and unclean, we have the Book of Enoch which MAY have been actually written by Enoch and MAY have been a preflood writing that survived on the ark (perhaps the books of Jasher and Jubilees too, or the first chapters of them might be based on preflood writings) and fragments of the book of Noah, so it seems like there were writings with the complete creation account and Torah contained within them, that may have become lost, damaged or corrupted during the 400 years in Egypt, hence the retelling. Since several books survived with the stories of the Nephilim (Cro Magnon, reptilian mythical gods, Greco-Roman mythcal gods etc) Genesis 6:4 didn't need to elaborate on the account of the giants and non humans that came and made ALL FLESH CORRUPT, something that important and exciting to hear about, all cut severely short, implies that everyone had an assumed understanding of what it referred to from other sources. The time of the "Noahide Law" as some call it, was probably a lengthy giving of the entire Torah, but as it probably wasn't necessary to include it all in detail there, it was probably cut short just to the most important points that the Hammites and Jahethites took from that instruction and incorporated into their national laws.

There is enough evidence to suggest that the preflood men (Neanderthals) and pre-exodus Shemites knew Torah, and this picture only supports the already substantiated theories.

It would be amazing to have a collection of every single Israelite writing uncorrupted today, so many questions could be answered!

Starting a new thread. I didn't know this would draw many responses.

Other tribes used fringes of differing colours, but as far as I know,
only the Hebrews were commanded to have the blue thread.

According to the website, the Hebrew in the picture is a slave from the
time of Hezekiah, about 700 years after the Exodus from Egypt.
http://www.nccg.org/tzitzit.html

is this one of the "Hyksos" tribe? I was studying them over the Pesach, some interesting history.



Another point that I saw but didn't quote - someone mentioned that some people believe that only men should wear tzits.
Torah demands that Israelites wear tzitzit, it makes no distinction of gender.

The pharisees later used the fact that men should not wear women's clothing nor a woman a man's clothing, ie, no transvestitism or transsexualism. Cross dressing can lead to gender identity issues, homosexuality, confusion etc...
Nothing about Tzitzits can be associated with any of that. Women and men are to wear them.

 

[pinacled]

So is 40 correct?

 

[Sheeple Shepherd]

The Torah was known since before the flood, Noah knew what was clean and unclean, we have the Book of Enoch which MAY have been actually written by Enoch and MAY have been a preflood writing that survived on the ark (perhaps the books of Jasher and Jubilees too, or the first chapters of them might be based on preflood writings) and fragments of the book of Noah, so it seems like there were writings with the complete creation account and Torah contained within them, that may have become lost, damaged or corrupted during the 400 years in Egypt, hence the retelling. Since several books survived with the stories of the Nephilim (Cro Magnon, reptilian mythical gods, Greco-Roman mythcal gods etc) Genesis 6:4 didn't need to elaborate on the account of the giants and non humans that came and made ALL FLESH CORRUPT, something that important and exciting to hear about, all cut severely short, implies that everyone had an assumed understanding of what it referred to from other sources. The time of the "Noahide Law" as some call it, was probably a lengthy giving of the entire Torah, but as it probably wasn't necessary to include it all in detail there, it was probably cut short just to the most important points that the Hammites and Jahethites took from that instruction and incorporated into their national laws.

There is enough evidence to suggest that the preflood men (Neanderthals) and pre-exodus Shemites knew Torah, and this picture only supports the already substantiated theories.

It would be amazing to have a collection of every single Israelite writing uncorrupted today, so many questions could be answered!



is this one of the "Hyksos" tribe? I was studying them over the Pesach, some interesting history.



Another point that I saw but didn't quote - someone mentioned that some people believe that only men should wear tzits.
Torah demands that Israelites wear tzitzit, it makes no distinction of gender.

The pharisees later used the fact that men should not wear women's clothing nor a woman a man's clothing, ie, no transvestitism or transsexualism. Cross dressing can lead to gender identity issues, homosexuality, confusion etc...
Nothing about Tzitzits can be associated with any of that. Women and men are to wear them.

Genesis 26:5
because Abraham obeyed me and did everything I required of him, keeping my commands, my decrees and my instructions."




Torah was given to Adam and came out of Garden.

Further, Torah, instruction, was given at Re-Creation.....>IOWs, from the Beginning or the new Beginning.

 

[pat34lee]

is this one of the "Hyksos" tribe? I was studying them over the Pesach, some interesting history.

Another point that I saw but didn't quote - someone mentioned that some people believe that only men should wear tzits.
Torah demands that Israelites wear tzitzit, it makes no distinction of gender.

According to the page that the picture came from, it was from Hezekiah's time,
much later than the Exodus.

Usually when people start with only men arguments, it's where the verses use
male pronouns, such as sons of Israel.

 

[ContraMundum]

A bit too much use of the words "may" and "probably" to prop up the theory that the entire Torah was given before Sinai. Not buying it. It makes the immediate sons and daughters of Adam adulterers for starters. Not to mention problems arising from initiation of the sacrificial system, the priesthood etc etc. Nah...just Bibliolatry in another guise. God's revelation has always been progressive.

 

[Pentateuch and Yeshua]

Clearly some instructions were given before the flood to Adam and sons, probably not the full Torah of the Pentateuch that we have today, but guidelines on how we should live were set out of course, Noah knew what was clean and what wasn't and people pre and post flood knew what was righteousness and what was wickedness.
This had nothing to do with an "oral Torah" or the Talmudic law, and there is no reason to believe that it was, on contrary there is a lot of evidence to demonstrate logically that it is not. For a start, if the Israelites had an oral law that contained everything that was in the Torah, why would the Torah need to be given at Sinai?
Most likely the Israelites had a wealth of pre flood and recent post flood writings that got corrupted, lost or destroyed in Egypt while in slavery or during their flight from Egypt. We have some samples including 1 Enoch, the fragment from the Book of Noah, the book of Jasher that was known before the book of Joshua was written just after the Torah was, the book of Jubilees etc etc, so it is likely that they had owned a book of the law that was relevant to them before that time that either got lost or needed updating for the homosapiens sapiens (humans before the flood were neanderthal and post flood were various hybrids of neanderthal and cro magnon that hadn't yet stabilised into a specific species of man, hence we have races of nephilim giants, different "mythical creatures" and strange humanoids such as denisovans, possibly sasquashlike creatures etc etc before the genomes had stablised between the purer neanderthal-gened bloodlines) who now needed specific guidelines for health, cleanliness, redemption, safety, etc etc, hence we have the Torah written as it is today, which is perfect and complete with no need for any extra rules, or attempts to usurp it with man made creeds or scientific discoveries.

 

[Shimshon]

Noah knew what was clean and what wasn't and people pre and post flood knew what was righteousness and what was wickedness.

Did he know how to build an ark too? The point is God told him what was needed when it was needed. The same way God instructed Noah how to build an ark is the same way Noah learned about clean and unclean. He didn't get instructed on it beforehand.

 

[Sheeple Shepherd]

A bit too much use of the words "may" and "probably" to prop up the theory that the entire Torah was given before Sinai. Not buying it. It makes the immediate sons and daughters of Adam adulterers for starters. Not to mention problems arising from initiation of the sacrificial system, the priesthood etc etc. Nah...just Bibliolatry in another guise. God's revelation has always been progressive.

Explain.

 

[Pentateuch and Yeshua]

I had assumed he/she meant that they committed incest and used the wrong word.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

.

 

[Pentateuch and Yeshua]

YES you are right, TORAH is the Pentateuch.

It's ironic that you said that, since a lot of Orthodox Jews and converts also, for some reason, call the Talmud "Torah" too, but I'm glad you did.

And no, I don't need to use specific words on an internet forum to "look cool". Why would you say that?

 

[Sheeple Shepherd]

I had assumed he/she meant that they committed incest and used the wrong word.

Adam's sons and daughters did not commit incest.
There were others on earth.