Tzitzits

[pat34lee]

Unfortunately Pat no one could know what a Tzitzis was or how to make one without Rabbinic Jewish culture and tradition, which is part of identity for us. You cannot separate much of the Torah from the community that lives it.

The ancient Hebrews did not live in a vacuum. There are pictures
of how they dressed in Egyptian hieroglyphics. The Karaites also
seem to have no trouble making their own tzitzits without following
Rabbinic traditions.

Remember that Yeshua said the Pharisees (today's Rabbis) were
enlarging their tzitzit? Who do most people copy today?

 

[ContraMundum]

The ancient Hebrews did not live in a vacuum. There are pictures
of how they dressed in Egyptian hieroglyphics. The Karaites also
seem to have no trouble making their own tzitzits without following
Rabbinic traditions.

Remember that Yeshua said the Pharisees (today's Rabbis) were
enlarging their tzitzit? Who do most people copy today?

Pat brother I don't think those would be Hebrews in the picture. Lots of cultures wore fringes on their garments, but only the Hebrews wore tzitzit on four cornered garments as far as I know. That's not a four cornered garment in the picture, but if it is actually a Hebrew, that makes an interesting point on the Rabbinic halacha. Cool.

 

[Lulav]

Pat brother I don't think those would be Hebrews in the picture. Lots of cultures wore fringes on their garments, but only the Hebrews wore tzitzit on four cornered garments as far as I know. That's not a four cornered garment in the picture, but if it is actually a Hebrew, that makes an interesting point on the Rabbinic halacha. Cool.

And why would they have tzitzit in Egypt before Torah was given?

 

[pat34lee]

And why would they have tzitzit in Egypt before Torah was given?

They always dealt with Egypt, not just when they were slaves.

 

[Lulav]

They always dealt with Egypt, not just when they were slaves.

Well this is getting off topic, but it would make a good thread, why don't you start one where we all can discuss it without derailing this one?

(the pic you posted showed slaves and we were only slaves one time in Egypt, that is what the Passover is all about)

 

[pat34lee]

Starting a new thread. I didn't know this would draw many responses.

Other tribes used fringes of differing colors, but as far as I know,
only the Hebrews were commanded to have the blue thread.

According to the website, the Hebrew in the picture is a slave from the
time of Hezekiah, about 700 years after the Exodus from Egypt.
http://www.nccg.org/tzitzit.html

 

[big macher]

Starting a new thread. I didn't know this would draw many responses.

Other tribes used fringes of differing colors, but as far as I know,
only the Hebrews were commanded to have the blue thread.

According to the website, the Hebrew in the picture is a slave from the
time of Hezekiah, about 700 years after the Exodus from Egypt.
http://www.nccg.org/tzitzit.html

This says it all in the article... if you want to be a Kairite that's fine.

"

• 
  As Messianic Evangelicals we should obey Torahbut not Jewish traditions. Therefore grown men believers - and believing boys at the age of 12 - should wear tzitzit in obedience to the commandment and according to the pattern revealed in Scripture. We should not use or imitate tallit which are contrary to Scripture."

 

[Dave-W]

If you want to keep Jewish identity, keep the kippahs. They
are traditional.

And REQUIRED to be worn by gentile males attending traditional synagogues.

 

[Dave-W]

Unfortunately Pat no one could know what a Tzitzis was or how to make one without Rabbinic Jewish culture and tradition,

Not exactly true. It has been established that the series of knots and strands in the first century was used as a resume of sorts for a person's religious training. That is why Saul/Paul was asked to speak - his tzitzit told that he had studied under Gamaliel.

The reason for Our Lord saying NOT to enlarge your tzitzit was to keep people from bragging (or even exaggerating) about their qualifications.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Do the Karaites think we should wear skirt-like garments with tsitsit?

 

[danny ski]

Do the Karaites think we should wear skirt-like garments with tsitsit?

Only the Scottish Karaites.

 

[Dave-W]

Pretty much confirming what I said, no?

Not really. Rabbinic tradition and lit tells us to make them all the same. (with minor interpretive differences between Sephardic and Ashkenazic)

 

[ContraMundum]

Not really. Rabbinic tradition and lit tells us to make them all the same. (with minor interpretive differences between Sephardic and Ashkenazic)

Ah..yeah, but Rabbinic tradition changed from what it was then to what it is now. Still a traditional ruling on halacha no matter which way you swing the cat.

 

[yonah_mishael]

And why would they have tzitzit in Egypt before Torah was given?

Like with eating pork, it may have been a value of their tribal identification before it became embodied as a commandment of the Torah.

 

[yonah_mishael]

They always dealt with Egypt, not just when they were slaves.

As far as I know, there is no hieroglyphic evidence in Egypt of Jews/Hebrews who were slaves.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Only the Scottish Karaites.

Nice!

 

[pat34lee]

Do the Karaites think we should wear skirt-like garments with tsitsit?

I don't think they take the 4 corners as literal, but meaning
all around the garment.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

I moved some posts over from the staff/member discussion thread on the SOP

 

[pat34lee]

As far as I know, there is no hieroglyphic evidence in Egypt of Jews/Hebrews who were slaves.

If you have time and haven't seen it yet, here is a link
to the movie, "Exodus Decoded". I think they did a
pretty good job of showing proof where archaeologists
and historians were looking in the wrong places.
http://www.solarmovie.ac/watch-the-exodus-decoded-2006-online.html

 

[yonah_mishael]

If you have time and haven't seen it yet, here is a link
to the movie, "Exodus Decoded". I think they did a
pretty good job of showing proof where archaeologists
and historians were looking in the wrong places.
http://www.solarmovie.ac/watch-the-exodus-decoded-2006-online.html

I'll watch it later, but I'm really skeptical from the outset.