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Why does the earth rotate?

Justatruthseeker

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We aren't using clocks from those other galaxies. We are using clocks that have remained in our frame of reference for the entire history of our solar system.

Which solar system in this galaxy has been accelerating that entire history of the universe - or so you claim. We are no different from them - all are accelerating - physics demands you accept no other observation.

This galaxy is no different than your spaceship. It is accelerating as we speak - again - or so you claim. You are also quite aware what happens to accelerating frames - rulers shrink and clocks slow.

You have no choice in the framework of your own theory - except adjust your clocks to read faster as you calculate backwards in time. Just as the twin would have to increase the rate of time to calculate back to his starting point. The twin does not age slower because he returns to earth - but because he experienced the laws of physics differently than do those on the stationary frame. Less time passes not just according to his clocks - but in reality - because the physical laws that govern decay rates (energy) changed in proportion to that energy.

And is why E told you that only in non-accelerating frames did the same laws of physics hold and which you ignore - despite claiming to follow his theory. Because he also understood that in that accelerating frame - the laws of physics passed differently. That they were proportional to energy E=mc^2.

If they were the same Loud - you would not need to apply transforms between one frame and the next - because they would already be the same.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_relativity

"Einstein's solution was to discard the notion of an aether and the absolute state of rest. In relativity, any reference frame moving with uniform motion will observe the same laws of physics."

"Reference frames play a crucial role in relativity theory. The term reference frame as used here is an observational perspective in space which is not undergoing any change in motion (acceleration), from which a position can be measured along 3 spatial axes."

We are not even an inertial frame loud, you do not realize this???

"Separating non-inertial from inertial reference frames
The presence of fictitious forces indicates the physical laws are not the simplest laws available so, in terms of the special principle of relativity, a frame where fictitious forces are present is not an inertial frame:"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-inertial_reference_frame

"A non-inertial reference frame is a frame of reference that is undergoing acceleration with respect to an inertial frame."

But again - we are not an inertial frame to begin with Loud.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictitious_force

And the fact that you require 96% fictitious forces (Fairie Dust) in your cosmology should also tell you something. Exactly what you are ignoring.
 
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Loudmouth

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Which solar system in this galaxy has been accelerating that entire history of the universe - or so you claim.

Our clocks have been accelerating with it, in the same frame of reference. Therefore, you don't have to adjust those clocks for any changes due to relativity.

This galaxy is no different than your spaceship. It is accelerating as we speak - again - or so you claim. You are also quite aware what happens to accelerating frames - rulers shrink and clocks slow.

Rulers and clocks don't change within the same frame of reference. They only change when comparing different frames of reference. Since we are still in the same frame of reference and all of the clocks and rulers we are using have remained in the same frame of reference, there is no need to adjust any of them for changes due to relativity.

You have no choice in the framework of your own theory -

Einstein would be laughing at you. His entire theory revolves around the idea that you can choose whatever frame of reference you want. There is no golden frame of reference that everything must be compared to. You choose the frame of reference that you want to compare to, and then you look to see if there were differences in acceleration within that frame of reference.

Just as the twin would have to increase the rate of time to calculate back to his starting point. The twin does not age slower because he returns to earth - but because he experienced the laws of physics differently than do those on the stationary frame.

The clocks we are using never left the Earth or the frame of reference that the Earth is in, so no need to adjust them. If you accelerated the Earth along with the spaceship the twins would be the same age.

Less time passes not just according to his clocks - but in reality - because the physical laws that govern decay rates (energy) changed in proportion to that energy.

Decay rates stay constant within a frame of reference no matter how fast it is accelerating. It is only when you compare two different frames of reference that you see a difference. This was confirmed in the famous Hafele-Keating experiments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafele–Keating_experiment

And is why E told you that only in non-accelerating frames did the same laws of physics hold and which you ignore - despite claiming to follow his theory.

There is no such thing as a non-accelerating frame of reference. They are all accelerating. What matters is the comparison between frames of reference.

If they were the same Loud - you would not need to apply transforms between one frame and the next - because they would already be the same.

You don't need to apply transforms if you stay in the same frame of reference.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Our clocks have been accelerating with it, in the same frame of reference. Therefore, you don't have to adjust those clocks for any changes due to relativity.

Because they are already adjusting proportionally to that energy input from acceleration. How many times must you ignore the science? Rulers shrink and clocks slow. The frame in which they do so - an accelerating frame - does not see this. With what ruler are you going to compare a shorter ruler too if you are the accelerating frame? Another shorter ruler????????? But when that frame returns they both immediately realize the laws of physics were not the same for each twin - because one has aged less than the other. For one time passed differently. The one under acceleration - because in the thought experiment of E's the stationary twin is stationary - his clocks and rulers never change.


Rulers and clocks don't change within the same frame of reference. They only change when comparing different frames of reference. Since we are still in the same frame of reference and all of the clocks and rulers we are using have remained in the same frame of reference, there is no need to adjust any of them for changes due to relativity.

You are getting desperate and repeating, so I will.

Because they are already adjusting proportionally to that energy input from acceleration. How many times must you ignore the science? Rulers shrink and clocks slow. The frame in which they do so - an accelerating frame - does not see this. With what ruler are you going to compare a shorter ruler too if you are the accelerating frame? Another shorter ruler????????? But when that frame returns they both immediately realize the laws of physics were not the same for each twin - because one has physically aged less than the other. For one time passed differently. The one under acceleration - because in the thought experiment of E's the stationary twin is stationary - his clocks and rulers never change.



Einstein would be laughing at you. His entire theory revolves around the idea that you can choose whatever frame of reference you want. There is no golden frame of reference that everything must be compared to. You choose the frame of reference that you want to compare to, and then you look to see if there were differences in acceleration within that frame of reference.

And yet despite your claims E told you that the laws of physics varied with acceleration in SR - but being he made his theory of GR for a static universe..... And require transforms proportional to energy levels gained from acceleration to "CONVERT" or transform one altered physical reality into another frame. Why? Because they are not the same - but proportional to energy.

The clocks we are using never left the Earth or the frame of reference that the Earth is in, so no need to adjust them. If you accelerated the Earth along with the spaceship the twins would be the same age.

The earth is already accelerating through space - at an increasing rate according to you - just like the twin in the spaceship. So if the twin in the spaceship were to instead slow to stationary with respect to the earth - their clocks would still disagree and the twin on earth would be younger. Stop ignoring that acceleration through space you claim was faster than c to begin with in which the entire universe - including us right now are undergoing - or so you claim.!!!!!



Decay rates stay constant within a frame of reference no matter how fast it is accelerating. It is only when you compare two different frames of reference that you see a difference. This was confirmed in the famous Hafele-Keating experiments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafele–Keating_experiment

Sigh, no they don't. Your clocks and rulers are changing - those decay rates that share your frame are also changing - all proportionally to energy gained from acceleration. If your clock takes longer to tick, and the decay rate now takes longer to happen - you will never notice because you insist on calling two different times both a second, when they are merely "proportional."




There is no such thing as a non-accelerating frame of reference. They are all accelerating. What matters is the comparison between frames of reference.

From frames of references that are moving in a uniform transitional relationship (i.e. roughly the same).

"Special principle of relativity: If a system of coordinates K is chosen so that, in relation to it, physical laws hold good in their simplest form, the same laws hold good in relation to any other system of coordinates K' moving in uniform translation relatively to K"

Since you admit there is no such thing as a non-accelerating frame of reference - why are you now refusing to apply the effects we know happen in accelerating frames??????

"The laws of motion in non-inertial frames do not take the simple form they do in inertial frames, and the laws vary from frame to frame depending on the acceleration."

There is no absolute reference frame simply because one's true velocity through space can never be known - since nothing is stationary. Yet you refuse to apply the physics of accelerating frames to frames you clearly understand are accelerating - and not stationary. If you say you follow Relativity it must be true then, but E still disagrees with you.

You don't need to apply transforms if you stay in the same frame of reference.

Umm, besides the frame of the solar system, just where do you not apply them??????? Because the solar system is as E understood - a "system of coordinates K' moving in uniform translation relatively to K". And is why he could successfully apply GR to it. But not to any other frame of reference outside of the solar system.
 
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Loudmouth

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Because they are already adjusting proportionally to that energy input from acceleration. How many times must you ignore the science? Rulers shrink and clocks slow.

Rulers and clocks stay the same within a frame of reference. How many times must you ignore the science?

If two twins get on the same spaceship and make the same journey, are they the same age when they get back?
But when that frame returns they both immediately realize the laws of physics were not the same for each twin - because one has aged less than the other. For one time passed differently. The one under acceleration - because in the thought experiment of E's the stationary twin is stationary - his clocks and rulers never change.

If they are both in the same frame of reference they observe the same passage of time.

The earth is already accelerating through space -

And our clocks with it. The clocks and rulers we are using are within the accelerating frame, so they are accurate time keepers for that frame of reference.

at an increasing rate according to you - just like the twin in the spaceship. So if the twin in the spaceship were to instead slow to stationary with respect to the earth - their clocks would still disagree and the twin on earth would be younger. Stop ignoring that acceleration through space you claim was faster than c to begin with in which the entire universe - including us right now are undergoing - or so you claim.!!!!!

If both twins were in the same spaceship and made the same journey, they would observe the same passage of time.


Sigh, no they don't. Your clocks and rulers are changing -

Clocks and rulers don't change within the same frame of reference.

Since you admit there is no such thing as a non-accelerating frame of reference - why are you now refusing to apply the effects we know happen in accelerating frames??????

Since all frames are accelerating, all frames of reference are equal. We can set up Earth's frame of reference as the standard, and measure the passage of time in all other frames of reference using that standard. We can treat Earth's frame of reference as the stationary frame of reference.

For all purposes, the Sun's frame of reference would be preferable, but the slight changes in time due to Earth's motion and gravity are pretty miniscule when we are looking at geologic history.

There is no absolute reference frame simply because one's true velocity through space can never be known - since nothing is stationary. Yet you refuse to apply the physics of accelerating frames to frames you clearly understand are accelerating - and not stationary. If you say you follow Relativity it must be true then, but E still disagrees with you.

We can define our solar system as stationary, and all other frames of reference as accelerating with reference to our solar system.
 
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dad

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We aren't using clocks from those other galaxies. We are using clocks that have remained in our frame of reference for the entire history of our solar system.
I like that. You admit using earth time only.
 
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Kylie

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Consistent with their belief system and godless interpretations of partial facts.

And if it is wrong, why does it match so exactly?

If you had fact or knowledge or science it would.

No it wouldn't.

They say whatever they need to to sound like they have a clue. '95% dark unknown stuff.? ..hey we will know what it is one day..'

That does not mean it is operating in a way which violates the known laws of the universe.

No, I just point it out.

Pointing out that something disagrees with what you want to believe does not make it wrong.

You don't know how to find truth.

I know that it isn't found by deciding on what is true based on an old book and then arbitrarily rejecting anyithng else without even bothering to examine it.

Deathbed statements have some value.

Not when it comes to finding out what is real.

The word of God was here before the bible. Just because we don't yet have a hard copy of the data doesn't mean it wasn't here.

Doesn't mean it was either.

Yes. This is news?

I'm sorry, but this is not an account of Jesus' death and resurrection that is in complete agreement with all of the Gospel accounts.

Care to try again?
 
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dad

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And if it is wrong, why does it match so exactly?
In the minds of it's circular thinking believers..or mine?

That does not mean it is operating in a way which violates the known laws of the universe.
No such thing. You just thought you knew.


Pointing out that something disagrees with what you want to believe does not make it wrong.
I disagree with what you want to believe -- guess I am right then!


I know that it isn't found by deciding on what is true based on an old book and then arbitrarily rejecting anyithng else without even bothering to examine it.
You cannot examine the far universe. Just look at some of it from afar.


Not when it comes to finding out what is real.
If you find out get back to us.

Doesn't mean it was either.
So we have was and was not. One or the other. Too gad you don't know which one to pick.


I'm sorry, but this is not an account of Jesus' death and resurrection that is in complete agreement with all of the Gospel accounts.
I disagree. So there.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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In God's mind, man's wisdom is foolishness and blessed is he that trusts God.

Well give that many of us trust the information God left us in the stars, the rocks, and the genomes, and you depend on your personal wisdom in your decision you can reject all that information regardless of how consistent it turns out to be . . . . you have specified where the foolishness lies.
 
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dad

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Well give that many of us trust the information God left us in the stars, the rocks, and the genomes, and you depend on your personal wisdom in your decision you can reject all that information regardless of how consistent it turns out to be . . . . you have specified where the foolishness lies.
Actually He deemed it right to give us the info on beginnings directly in the form or words. Words that Christ confirmed were truer than true. Those who sit around and try to divine rocks looking for some higher truth about creation are sit out of luck.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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Actually He deemed it right to give us the info on beginnings directly in the form or words. Words that Christ confirmed were truer than true. Those who sit around and try to divine rocks looking for some higher truth about creation are sit out of luck.

You have no basis for your beliefs, because you've already ruled out all evidence as being unable to speak about the past.
 
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dad

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You have no basis for your beliefs, because you've already ruled out all evidence as being unable to speak about the past.
Jesus said His words were water that gives life. I'd call that basis, since He created the world and man. Science is in the dark.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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Jesus said His words were water that gives life. I'd call that basis, since He created the world and man. Science is in the dark.

You have no basis to even know about Jesus because you reject knowledge of the past. So to acknowledge Jesus, you have to be inconsistent.
 
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Kylie

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In the minds of it's circular thinking believers..or mine?

The correct answer is that there is no reason why what we see would match what we have here if the laws were different in the distant universe.

No such thing. You just thought you knew.

I'm not talking about a thing. I'm talking about a process. You say the process is different, I say it is the same. ANd now you say it doesn't exist...

I disagree with what you want to believe -- guess I am right then!

You disagree with the evidence because accepting it would mean your beliefs are wrong. And you don't want to face that.

You cannot examine the far universe. Just look at some of it from afar.

And when we do, everything we see is entirely consistent with the laws we know of here. Why is that?

If you find out get back to us.

And isn't it funny how religion sets up a system where the only people who know CAN'T get back to us? Funny that, isn't it? A foolproof way to ensure that no negative reviews are left.

So we have was and was not. One or the other. Too gad you don't know which one to pick.

However, I make the rational decision and decide that I will have to find out the truth through a method other than an unverifiable claim.

I disagree. So there.

Not even my daughter thinks that's a good debate tactic.
 
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Kylie

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In God's mind, man's wisdom is foolishness and blessed is he that trusts God.

In the Invisible Pink Unicorn's mind, man's wisdom is foolishness, and blessed is he who trusts her holy hooves.

When you understand what is wrong with my claim, you'll know what is wrong with yours.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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When you all stop proposing Fairie Dust and accept the science you will all understand why it rotates.

http://www.livescience.com/39780-magnetic-field-pushes-earth-core.html

No, but you propose two objects rotating opposite one another and require a magic perpetual motion machine operating against friction for 4+ billion years in opposition to all of science.

The physics have been understood for over 200 years, yet each and every one of you ignores it.

You ignore that current creating the magnetic field.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birkeland_current

You ignore the cause of the heat in the core.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule_heating
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_heating
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_effect

"An important feature of the induction heating process is that the heat is generated inside the object itself, instead of by an external heat source via heat conduction."

Ignore that the core rotates opposite to the mantle. Requiring friction be induced between the two counter-rotating portions and propose perpetual motion machines operating by magic.
 
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Kylie

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When you all stop proposing Fairie Dust and accept the science you will all understand why it rotates.

http://www.livescience.com/39780-magnetic-field-pushes-earth-core.html

No, but you propose two objects rotating opposite one another and require a magic perpetual motion machine operating against friction for 4+ billion years in opposition to all of science.

The physics have been understood for over 200 years, yet each and every one of you ignores it.

You ignore that current creating the magnetic field.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birkeland_current

You ignore the cause of the heat in the core.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule_heating
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_heating
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_effect

"An important feature of the induction heating process is that the heat is generated inside the object itself, instead of by an external heat source via heat conduction."

Ignore that the core rotates opposite to the mantle. Requiring friction be induced between the two counter-rotating portions and propose perpetual motion machines operating by magic.

Then why do the other planets spin? And why do they mostly spin in the same direction as Earth? Isn't that a bit of a big coincidence?
 
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