Jesus Christ / Joseph Smith

[smaneck]

What do what Jews believe have to do with this ? They are more like you guys than Christians are. They have all sorts of written and oral books.

The Tanakh/Old Testament is their scripture.

 

[withwonderingawe]

What about this verse?

2 Timothy 3:13-17
"But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and firmly believed. You know those who taught you, 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Now Jesus equipped us for every good work almost 2,000 years ago. But you don't believe that, so the Bible is just a book to you.

I'm sure you read by this one really quick when it in no way supports Joseph Smith or additional revelation.

The Bible is that specific. That's the problem with trying to mesh the beliefs. They do not mesh. Will never mesh because you guys do things like add additional revelation that we are told not to do. It's simple really.

How in anyway does that say God can not give us more information, more scriptures?

Matt 24
22 For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad.
23 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.
25 For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.

To say that God can not give us more information is to tell God to shut up! Have your ears been stopped have you stopped seeking.

Moroni 7
35 ….has the day of miracles ceased?
36 Or have angels ceased to appear unto the children of men? Or has he withheld the power of the Holy Ghost from them? Or will he, so long as time shall last, or the earth shall stand, or there shall be one man upon the face thereof to be saved?
37 Behold I say unto you, Nay; for it is by faith that miracles are wrought; and it is by faith that angels appear and minister unto men; wherefore, if these things have ceased wo be unto the children of men, for it is because of unbelief, and all is vain.”

So when did the miracles cease? When did angels cease to visit mankind?

Jesus promised
“ I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you….He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him…Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.”

Did this promise come to an end or does he not keep his promises?

 

[drstevej]

How in anyway does that say God can not give us more information, more scriptures?

Matt 24
22 For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad.
23 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.
25 For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.

What version are you using ???

Matthew 24:22-25 King James Version (KJV)
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.

 

[ToBeLoved]

How in anyway does that say God can not give us more information, more scriptures?

If we are equipped for every good work, than that pretty much says it all, does it not?

What does not make sense about being fully equipped? God cannot lie, right? So how can we be fully equipped, yet need something? See what I mean?

You said that you take the Bible very seriously, so what did God lie about?

 

[smaneck]

To say that God can not give us more information is to tell God to shut up!

Or as the Qur'an puts it:

"And if whatever trees upon the earth were pens and the sea [was ink], replenished thereafter by seven [more] seas, the words of Allah would not be exhausted. Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise."

 

[withwonderingawe]

What version are you using ???

Matthew 24:22-25 King James Version (KJV)
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.

KJV with a little Stong's Bible Concordance thrown in at times.

 

[Ironhold]

What about this verse?

2 Timothy 3:13-17

As we've noted elsewhere, you're mis-applying the passage.

The canon of scripture wasn't even fully assembled at this point, and so there's no way it could be referring to the Bible as a whole. At most, we're looking at the Old Testament (likely including material now regarded as apocryphal) and maybe a few very early New Testament writings.

 

[Ironhold]

What version are you using ???

My guess is that there's a typo somewhere with either the book or the chapter.

It happens.

 

[ToBeLoved]

As we've noted elsewhere, you're mis-applying the passage.

The canon of scripture wasn't even fully assembled at this point, and so there's no way it could be referring to the Bible as a whole. At most, we're looking at the Old Testament (likely including material now regarded as apocryphal) and maybe a few very early New Testament writings.

No. What does it matter if it was assembled at that point or not? The cannon wasn't being added to, so I don't see your point? It didn't change after 70AD. So let's talk apples and apples here.

Stop trying to mislead. If you want to to mislead yourself, by all means jump on that train, but let's talk facts here.

 

[seekingsolace]

Because no one has the originals.

I find we Mormons belief the Bible more than most Christians. The Bible says we are made in God's image, how many of you believe that?

If you believed the Bible more than Christians, you wouldn't hold contradictory beliefs.

 

[Albion]

Because no one has the originals.

You don't have "the originals" with the Book of Mormon, either. Do you believe anything that's in it?

 

[ToBeLoved]

If you believed the Bible more than Christians, you wouldn't hold contradictory beliefs.

Amen!

 

[ToBeLoved]

You don't have "the originals" with the Book of Mormon, either. Do you believe anything that's in it?

The fact is that we have the original language version.

Mormon's don't bother reading that. And why do they say KJV only? That is odd in itself. You won't study the origninal language (ie. Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek) but you hold fast to one translation. And that's the only translation?

A lot of things are tightly controlled from what I see.

 

[fatboys]

The fact is that we have the original language version.

Mormon's don't bother reading that. And why do they say KJV only? That is odd in itself. You won't study the origninal language (ie. Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek) but you hold fast to one translation. And that's the only translation?

A lot of things are tightly controlled from what I see.

There are no original manuscripts. You don't know what was there originally plain and simple

 

[Jane_Doe]

You don't have "the originals" with the Book of Mormon, either. Do you believe anything that's in it?

Is it so crazy to put forth that there are different interpretations of the Bible, resulting in different beliefs? If not, then why are there 35,000+ different Christian denominations?

 

[ToBeLoved]

There are no original manuscripts. You don't know what was there originally plain and simple

Let me be specific.

Scripture was not originally written in English. Not in the King James Version or any other translated version.

There were three original languages that the Bible was written in. By it's writers, their native written language, which was not English.

THose languages were Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek.

So, EACH translation into English was translated to English from another language.

So, my point is that if you really want to get away from the ENglish translations and want to see the original langauge that the BIble was written in, than that exists.

Does that make sense? That the BIble was not originally written in the English language? That in the original language that words like 'love' had three or four different words, with different contexts in that language that may be translated as a single word into English?

I'm not sure how to be more concise as you seem to think that it is about a manuscript but it is about BEFORE translation into English.

Do you see that now?

 

[Jane_Doe]

No. What does it matter if it was assembled at that point or not? The cannon wasn't being added to, so I don't see your point? It didn't change after 70AD. So let's talk apples and apples here.

Stop trying to mislead. If you want to to mislead yourself, by all means jump on that train, but let's talk facts here.

Hi ToBeLoved!

Did you finish your research into the Apocrypha and different books being included in the Bible?

 

[Jane_Doe]

Deleted.

 

[Albion]

Is it so crazy to put forth that there are different interpretations of the Bible, resulting in different beliefs? If not, then why are there 35,000+ different Christian denominations?

Why are there a half-dozen different LDS denominations? Of course, people will use their minds in different ways and come up with different interpretations of almost anything. That's not the issue. But I asked why it's credible to say that the Bible can't be trusted only because the originals don't exist, at the same time as you do believe in the Book of Mormon for which no originals exist. The church even provides an explanation for why no one can see them.

 

[Jane_Doe]

people will use their minds in different ways and come up with different interpretations of almost anything. That's not the issue.

Ok, we can stay focused on manuscripts for now.

But I asked why it's credible to say that the Bible can't be trusted only because the originals don't exist, at the same time as you do believe in the Book of Mormon for which no originals exist. The church even provides an explanation for why no one can see them.

Question: what is the primary rooting place of your faith? Is it in the existence of a coptic manuscript?