Refuting Sola Scriptura - Why the Bible Alone is Not Sufficient

[Acts24Fourteen]

Romanism, actually claims to have a higher authority than either scripture or tradition, which is its Magisterium, who/which determines which is which, if any. However,

Scripture [KJB] says, "... [Exo 20:8-11 KJB] 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates: 11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."​

Tradition [of Rome] says, "3. Remember to keep holy the LORD'S Day[*]." [*, [which they mean to be Sunday, the 'first [day] of the week]]​

Scripture:

John 14:15 KJB - If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Exodus 20:6 KJB - And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Matthew 24:35 KJB - Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Mark 13:31 KJB - Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Luke 21:33 KJB - Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.​

To the Law and to the Testimony [of Jesus, being the Spirit Prophecy, says that Rome would "think to change times and laws" "of the Most High God", per Dan. 7:25, etc]

Let us see who is right, by demonstrable evidence:

Mainly here [responses 64-67, presently] - http://www.christianforums.com/threads/historicity-of-the-change-of-the-sabbath-commandment.7911734/

[Part 01] - http://www.christianforums.com/thre...bath-commandment.7911734/page-4#post-68722121

[Part 02] - http://www.christianforums.com/thre...bath-commandment.7911734/page-4#post-68722124

[Part 03] - http://www.christianforums.com/thre...bath-commandment.7911734/page-4#post-68722125

[Part 04] - http://www.christianforums.com/thre...bath-commandment.7911734/page-4#post-68722129​

Yes, it looks lengthy, but it is relatively short in length compared to having actually read the blithering lengths of wind of Laudato Si.

 

[BobRyan]

They do flow from the same source-the word of God. You disagree because of your interpretation, and lack of some of Scripture, because it's inconvenient to your doctrine.

Another option for the Jewish Magisterium in Mark 7 - that did not get off the ground.

So helpful to see scripture hammering tradition

Mark 7:6-13

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


This is why Mark 7 comes up so often - because remarks such as those at the top of this post are flying right in the face of the lesson we all see being demonstrated for us by Christ in Mark 7.

the point is irrefutable which is why we see comments like the one at the top of this post - coming back around directly in the path of Mark 7 only to have Christ's own argument in Mark 7 give the decisive answer "again".

 

[Standing Up]

Romanism, actually claims to have a higher authority than either scripture or tradition, which is its Magisterium, who/which determines which is which, if any.

True enough.

 

[Standing Up]

They do flow from the same source-the word of God. You disagree because of your interpretation, and lack of some of Scripture, because it's inconvenient to your doctrine.

Again, we understand you believe that Scripture and Tradition flow from the same source. This is what EO says too. Yet, EO and RC obviously do not have the same Tradition (or scripture). So obviously it doesn't. You two groups can figure it out, but obviously someone or both is wrong.

We don't disagree because of interpretation of Tradition. We disagree because Tradition is not provable. There is no way to test it. Scripture, however, may be tested. It is written.

Scripture is the sole rule of faith.

 

[n2thelight]

They do flow from the same source-the word of God. You disagree because of your interpretation, and lack of some of Scripture, because it's inconvenient to your doctrine.

So tradition is the Word of God?

 

[Acts24Fourteen]

So tradition is the Word of God?

Romanism, has two traditions, one 'oral' [what is normally called capital '[T]radition', now also written in reams and rows of materials], one 'written' [what they normally call 'scripture' [Roman/Egyptian sources, which includes many apocrypha, and others]], and the See & Magisterium over them both.

Think of it like the old pharisaical notions of Midrash, Talmud, Quabalah, etc. It is the same religion, carried forward, along with all of the other gnostic materials, pagan ideas and idols, mystical interpretations, Babylonian sun worship, Persian Mithraic worship [Pater], Greecian philosophic ideologies, Roman pagentries, titles [Pontifex Maximus] and force, etc.

 

[Albion]

Romanism, has two traditions, one 'oral' [what is normally called capital '[T]radition', now also written in reams and rows of materials], one 'written' [what they normally call 'scripture'...and the See & Magisterium over them both.

This says it pretty well, except that I'd clarify that "Tradition" isn't exclusively oral. It includes the extant writings of church leaders, and it's that which is usually referred to in support of any extra-Biblical ideas that are made into dogma.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Romanism, actually claims to have a higher authority than either scripture or tradition, which is its Magisterium, who/which determines which is which, if any.

This statement is patently false. The Magisterium is not higher in authority than Scripture or Tradition. Also, Romanism would be what the Romans practiced, right? It has nothing to do with Catholicism.

However,

Scripture [KJB] says, "... [Exo 20:8-11 KJB] 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates: 11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."​

Tradition [of Rome] says, "3. Remember to keep holy the LORD'S Day[*]." [*, [which they mean to be Sunday, the 'first [day] of the week]]​

Scripture:

John 14:15 KJB - If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Exodus 20:6 KJB - And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Matthew 24:35 KJB - Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Mark 13:31 KJB - Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Luke 21:33 KJB - Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.​

To the Law and to the Testimony [of Jesus, being the Spirit Prophecy, says that Rome would "think to change times and laws" "of the Most High God", per Dan. 7:25, etc]

Let us see who is right, by demonstrable evidence:

Mainly here [responses 64-67, presently] - http://www.christianforums.com/threads/historicity-of-the-change-of-the-sabbath-commandment.7911734/

[Part 01] - http://www.christianforums.com/thre...bath-commandment.7911734/page-4#post-68722121

[Part 02] - http://www.christianforums.com/thre...bath-commandment.7911734/page-4#post-68722124

[Part 03] - http://www.christianforums.com/thre...bath-commandment.7911734/page-4#post-68722125

[Part 04] - http://www.christianforums.com/thre...bath-commandment.7911734/page-4#post-68722129​

Yes, it looks lengthy, but it is relatively short in length compared to having actually read the blithering lengths of wind of Laudato Si.

What, did Christ say, were the commandments? Love God, and Love Neighbor. We love God by worshiping Him. It matters not the day. But, we have done nothing to the sabbath. We worship on the eighth day, not the seventh. What makes you think we don't keep the Sabbath holy?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Again, we understand you believe that Scripture and Tradition flow from the same source. This is what EO says too. Yet, EO and RC obviously do not have the same Tradition (or scripture). So obviously it doesn't. You two groups can figure it out, but obviously someone or both is wrong.

We don't disagree because of interpretation of Tradition. We disagree because Tradition is not provable. There is no way to test it. Scripture, however, may be tested. It is written.

Scripture is the sole rule of faith.

Actually, I don't believe that the EO and the Catholic Church are that far apart on Tradition.

Tradition is provable.

How can we test Scripture?

 

[Root of Jesse]

So tradition is the Word of God?

(T)radition is, yes. Not tradition.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Romanism, has two traditions, one 'oral' [what is normally called capital '[T]radition', now also written in reams and rows of materials], one 'written' [what they normally call 'scripture' [Roman/Egyptian sources, which includes many apocrypha, and others]], and the See & Magisterium over them both.

Think of it like the old pharisaical notions of Midrash, Talmud, Quabalah, etc. It is the same religion, carried forward, along with all of the other gnostic materials, pagan ideas and idols, mystical interpretations, Babylonian sun worship, Persian Mithraic worship [Pater], Greecian philosophic ideologies, Roman pagentries, titles [Pontifex Maximus] and force, etc.

Most of which came about after Christianity...You're obviously entrenched in mythology.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Most of which came about after Christianity...You're obviously entrenched in mythology.

Indeed. Just a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

 

[Acts24Fourteen]

...Tradition is provable.

How can we test Scripture?

In the same post even...

 

[Root of Jesse]

In the same post even...

I want to know what criteria we can test Scripture with. Not looking for peanut gallery remarks. If you've nothing to contribute, then don't contribute.

 

[Acts24Fourteen]

I want to know what criteria we can test Scripture with. ...

Like DNA [letters/words], the instruction for DNA, is in DNA, and is self-checking and already 'tested' [tried] by God [but do you believe it, is another question, and thus a matter of faith; Romans 14:23; Romans 10:17].

John 10:35 KJB - If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Titus 1:2 KJB - In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Psalm 12:6 KJB - The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Psalm 12:7 KJB - Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Matthew 24:35 KJB - Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Mark 13:31 KJB - Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Luke 21:33 KJB - Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

John 14:15 KJB - If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Exodus 20:6 KJB - And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Deuteronomy 5:10 KJB - And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

Deuteronomy 4:2 KJB - Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Isaiah 8:20 KJB - To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.

Psalm 119:142 KJB - Thy righteousness [is] an everlasting righteousness, and thy law [is] the truth.

Psalm 119:151 KJB - Thou [art] near, O LORD; and all thy commandments [are] truth.

1 John 2:4 KJB - He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 Corinthians 14:32 KJB - And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

1 John 4:1 KJB - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Isaiah 28:10 KJB - For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little:

Acts 17:11 KJB - These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

2 Peter 3:16 KJB - As also in all [his] [Paul's] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Deuteronomy 18:18 KJB - I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Deuteronomy 18:19 KJB - And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require [it] of him.

Luke 24:44 KJB - And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me.​

etc.

 

[thecolorsblend]

How do you know any of those are Sacred Scripture?

 

[Acts24Fourteen]

How do you know any of those are Sacred Scripture?

There is the long and the short. In short, Faith.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Like DNA [letters/words], the instruction for DNA, is in DNA, and is self-checking and already 'tested' [tried] by God [but do you believe it, is another question, and thus a matter of faith; Romans 14:23; Romans 10:17].

John 10:35 KJB - If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Titus 1:2 KJB - In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Psalm 12:6 KJB - The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Psalm 12:7 KJB - Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Matthew 24:35 KJB - Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Mark 13:31 KJB - Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Luke 21:33 KJB - Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

John 14:15 KJB - If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Exodus 20:6 KJB - And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Deuteronomy 5:10 KJB - And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

Deuteronomy 4:2 KJB - Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Isaiah 8:20 KJB - To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.

Psalm 119:142 KJB - Thy righteousness [is] an everlasting righteousness, and thy law [is] the truth.

Psalm 119:151 KJB - Thou [art] near, O LORD; and all thy commandments [are] truth.

1 John 2:4 KJB - He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 Corinthians 14:32 KJB - And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

1 John 4:1 KJB - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Isaiah 28:10 KJB - For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little:

Acts 17:11 KJB - These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

2 Peter 3:16 KJB - As also in all [his] [Paul's] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Deuteronomy 18:18 KJB - I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Deuteronomy 18:19 KJB - And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require [it] of him.

Luke 24:44 KJB - And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me.​

etc.

Yes, how DO you know those are Sacred Scripture? Where is the table of contents, in the Bible?

 

[thecolorsblend]

There is the long and the short. In short, Faith.

I see. I can point back to Councils where the canon was discussed and ultimately agreed upon by men who feared for their souls if they were wrong and thus undertook the endeavor with the utmost seriousness before reaching their conclusions.

But you have faith, that's nice.

 

[Root of Jesse]

There is the long and the short. In short, Faith.

Doesn't fly.