Food for thought.

[David Colin Gould]

The Numbers passage is quite interesting, actually. It paints God in a pretty poor light, but that is not what the authors intended, in my opinion. What they were trying to do is explain why some of their people died in a fire that occurred at the edge of the camp. The explanation they came up with was that God was angry because people were complaining about the circumstances that they found themselves in. They were not interested in making God look nice; they were interested in finding how to prevent bad things happening. (Again, this is my opinion).

 

[David Colin Gould]

As to this being the last time, I am happy with that. I am starting to get bored of you getting to your point (which is, I assume, something along the lines of, 'If the Bible is true, then God must be X, Y and Z, as that is what the Bible says about him. Thus, the actions of his that people complain about are perfectly justified by his holiness, goodness, et cetera. We cannot judge God, as God is perfect; that is why he can judge us.')

 

[anonymous person]

As to this being the last time, I am happy with that. I am starting to get bored of you getting to your point (which is, I assume, something along the lines of, 'If the Bible is true, then God must be X, Y and Z, as that is what the Bible says about him. Thus, the actions of his that people complain about are perfectly justified by his holiness, goodness, et cetera. We cannot judge God, as God is perfect; that is why he can judge us.')

You either want to discuss this or not. If you do then I will. If not let me know.

I'm not going to sit here and agree with you on something just so you can be spared from being bored.

It is clear you know next to nothing about the subjects which you are attempting to speak on. Your understanding of the term holy and how it applies to God belies this and that you need to be taught these things. In order for one to be taught, they must be willing to listen. If you are not willing then just say so, but don't come here thinking you're going to be able to say anything you feel like saying about God and not have people challenge you on it.

I have ignored a lot of people who, if having indulged in their stupidity, I would have been found to have wasted much time in so doing. I will not waste my time on you either. If you want to talk about this, man up, grow a pair, and bring something to the table other than your warped views about God which are founded upon you cherry picking certain passages, out of context, and arguing that they somehow give us a complete picture of who God is.

 

[David Colin Gould]

The thing is, you were not discussing it. You were asking me a question, and then getting annoyed that I was not giving you the answers that you wanted. Rinse, repeat. I was not arguing, by the way, that they gave a complete picture of God; I asked for the passages that you wanted me to find. It seems that you just aren't very good at discussing things with people. Don't feel bad, though: it is something that you can learn - if you are willing to be taught, that is.

 

[David Colin Gould]

And I asked you what you thought holy meant. Your refusal to tell me is a little weird.

 

[David Colin Gould]

And I do not mind discussing it; I am on these forums to discuss things. But simply being asked the same question time and again is not my idea of a discussion. If you have a point, make it. Then I can either agree with that point or attempt to rebut it. Or I can make a point, and you can either agree with it or rebut it. That is how a discussion progresses. If either of us has a genuine question, we can ask it and try to get a response. I believe that I gave you responses to your question. If they did not satisfy you, you can tell me the answer that you were seeking. As a mathematics teacher, we do not keep asking the same question over and over if a student is getting it wrong; we show them the correct answer and tell them why they were getting it wrong. That way, they learn.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

You either want to discuss this or not. If you do then I will. If not let me know.

I'm not going to sit here and agree with you on something just so you can be spared from being bored.

It is clear you know next to nothing about the subjects which you are attempting to speak on. Your understanding of the term holy and how it applies to God belies this and that you need to be taught these things. In order for one to be taught, they must be willing to listen. If you are not willing then just say so, but don't come here thinking you're going to be able to say anything you feel like saying about God and not have people challenge you on it.

I have ignored a lot of people who, if having indulged in their stupidity, I would have been found to have wasted much time in so doing. I will not waste my time on you either. If you want to talk about this, man up, grow a pair, and bring something to the table other than your warped views about God which are founded upon you cherry picking certain passages, out of context, and arguing that they somehow give us a complete picture of who God is.

Oh, the irony is thick and delicious...

 

[David Colin Gould]

Further, if you do not agree with me, tell me what you think. I read the Bible and see a pretty terrible entity. What do you see?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

That's the way to welcome other people's opinions.

I once listened to a radio preacher that warned Christians to run as fast as they could away from intelligent people. They should stay away from universities and public schools. And to not use homeschooling curriculums.

Basically, he told everyone to be as stupid as possible. And to stay away from pretty much everyone.

Sounds like a cult to me...

 

[asherahSamaria]

You have not done your homework my friend. You come here repeating something you have read or heard someone else say. In light of this, I shall ignore you from here on out until I see some evidence that you actually know at least a little bit about what you presume to talk about. I wish you well.

Alas (for you) I have done my homework - so blithely saying I haven't isn't really addressing the issue - but thanks for highlighting your inability to address it

 

[anonymous person]

I once listened to a radio preacher that warned Christians to run as fast as they could away from intelligent people. They should stay away from universities and public schools. And to not use homeschooling curriculums.

Basically, he told everyone to be as stupid as possible. And to stay away from pretty much everyone.

Sounds like a cult to me...

Good observation. It may very well have been a cult leader you were listening to.

 

[anonymous person]

My point, David, is that as long as you cherry pick passages out of the bible, you will have a warped and skewed view of who the Bible says God is.

What you're doing is like me taking your autobiography, reading a handful of sentences in it, and then coming to this forum and telling everyone that you're the most evil, abhorrent man to have ever walked the face of the earth.

You would take issue with that because it's not right for me to take stuff about you out of context and use it to paint you in a light which the rest of your autobiography would show is an incorrect and warped view.

Another thing David. You said you were a Christian for what, 20 some years? That you have read The Bible cover to cover several times? If this is true, why do you act like you're ignorant when it comes to the meaning of the word "holy" when applied to God?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

My point, David, is that as long as you cherry pick passages out of the bible, you will have a warped and skewed view of who the Bible says God is.

What you're doing is like me taking your autobiography, reading a handful of sentences in it, and then coming to this forum and telling everyone that you're the most evil, abhorrent man to have ever walked the face of the earth.

You would take issue with that because it's not right for me to take stuff about you out of context and use it to paint you in a light which the rest of your autobiography would show is an incorrect and warped view.

Another thing David. You said you were a Christian for what, 20 some years? That you have read The Bible cover to cover several times? If this is true, why do you act like you're ignorant when it comes to the meaning of the word "holy" when applied to God?

What suggests that David is cherrypicking?

 

[David Colin Gould]

My point, David, is that as long as you cherry pick passages out of the bible, you will have a warped and skewed view of who the Bible says God is.

The Bible is very long. There are many, many passages in it about what God is, what God says and what God does. If you select 200 verses, you will not have a complete picture. I have shown you verses which talk about God's goodness; I have shown you verses that show God's violence. This is not cherrypicking: this is showing a more complete picture than just picking the ones that show goodness or just picking the ones that show violence.

What you're doing is like me taking your autobiography, reading a handful of sentences in it, and then coming to this forum and telling everyone that you're the most evil, abhorrent man to have ever walked the face of the earth.

You would take issue with that because it's not right for me to take stuff about you out of context and use it to paint you in a light which the rest of your autobiography would show is an incorrect and warped view.

No, I'm not. See above.

Another thing David. You said you were a Christian for what, 20 some years? That you have read The Bible cover to cover several times? If this is true, why do you act like you're ignorant when it comes to the meaning of the word "holy" when applied to God?

About 10 years, but that is not the issue. When I was a Christian, I thought that I knew what holy meant. But now I do not know what it means, apart from 'sacred' or - in this context - 'good'. What is your understanding of the term when applied to the deity that you believe in?

 

[David Colin Gould]

Regarding an autobiography of a person, I am actually a very understanding fellow. I do not believe that because someone did one horrible act that that act defines them forever, which unfortunately is what our justice system seems to do in many cases. So, if I read that someone committed one act of murder, but then did wonderful things for the other part of their life, then I will be apalled by that murder but I would not state that that person was a murderer, if you understand me. However, if there was a pattern of behaviour, that would indicate something deeper about the nature of that individual. If that pattern of behaviour was murderous, then - even if there were many good acts interspersed with those many acts of murder - I would not want to associate with that individual.

 

[David Colin Gould]

(Okay - I claim to be a very understanding fellow ...)

 

[quatona]

My point, David, is that as long as you cherry pick passages out of the bible, you will have a warped and skewed view of who the Bible says God is.

So do you want him to post the entire bible?

What you're doing is like me taking your autobiography, reading a handful of sentences in it, and then coming to this forum and telling everyone that you're the most evil, abhorrent man to have ever walked the face of the earth.

He´s giving you those parts that prevent him from considering the depicted entity worship-worthy. This is not about one person out of billions - it´s about the alleged unique standard of goodness.

Another thing David. You said you were a Christian for what, 20 some years? That you have read The Bible cover to cover several times? If this is true, why do you act like you're ignorant when it comes to the meaning of the word "holy" when applied to God?

Go ahead and tell us what it means, in your understanding.
But it won´t help much, if the claimed trait doesn´t match that which are - according to the bible - observed actions.

 

[anonymous person]

The Bible is very long. There are many, many passages in it about what God is, what God says and what God does.

That's exactly right! That was a point I was getting at.

If you select 200 verses, you will not have a complete picture. I have shown you verses which talk about God's goodness; I have shown you verses that show God's violence. This is not cherrypicking: this is showing a more complete picture than just picking the ones that show goodness or just picking the ones that show violence.

If 200 selected verses will not give you a complete picture, then why do you think 10 will? Have you provided more than 10 verses thus far?

What you have done is cherry picking because the majority of verses you have supplied speak on God's wrath and vengeance and judgment when in fact, only a fraction of the Bible's total verses speak of these attributes. You have taken the ratio of what you would consider to be "negative" attributes to what you would consider to be "positive" attributes and turned it on its head, i.e. flipped it. There are 31,102 verses in the KJV Bible. A mere fraction of these verses actually deal with God's wrath and vengeance, while the others deal with other issues.

 

[bhsmte]

I once listened to a radio preacher that warned Christians to run as fast as they could away from intelligent people. They should stay away from universities and public schools. And to not use homeschooling curriculums.

Basically, he told everyone to be as stupid as possible. And to stay away from pretty much everyone.

Sounds like a cult to me...

There is no question, there is a strong correlation between the level of education achieved and the likely hood of holding certain religious beliefs.

 

[HitchSlap]

I love you all because God loves you and He lives in me.

Not likely.