How is Once Saved Always Saved not a license to sin? (moved)

[Bible Highlighter]

Would God be evil if He gave us a new heart that wanted to follow Him willfully?

I believe God gives a believer a new heart and gives them new desires when they repent of their sins and they accept Him as their Savior. That does not mean God over-rides a person's free will to choose God or to reject Him anymore. A one time decision does not equate with one no longer having free will anymore.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Is asking God to keep you from sinning a good thing? If so, even that comes from Him. Following comes from Him. Hearing comes from Him. So you should stop taking credit for not sinning.

We can only stop sinning by God's power. But God is not going to force people to stop sinning against their will. A person has to cooperate with God and want to stop sinning. God is not going to over-ride a person's free will. That is why we are here.


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[nobdysfool]

So if your friend Rick said that he should come over your house, are you trying to tell me that he is saying he is comng over your house with a 100% absolute certainty? Bob says, I should stop eating candy but I just like it too much. Stephanie says I should stop smoking but I am addicted.

Hmmm.... doesnt' sound like the word "should" is an absolute certainty to me.

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Trying to wiggle out of your faux pas? If there's one thing that we could say about the Lord, wouldn't it be that He can speak with certainty about those whom the Father has given Him, and that He will lose none of them? Your view has Jesus being uncertain. "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day." Is there uncertainty here? No, Jesus said that it is the Father's Will that He will not lose any of those that have been given to Him by the Father. Once again, as John pointed out, you are dividing the trinity, and driving a wedge between them.

 

[nobdysfool]

We can only stop sinning by God's power. But God is not going to force people to stop sinning against their will. A person has to cooperate with God and want to stop sinning. God is not going to over-ride a person's free will. That is why we are here.


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Stop worshiping your free will. God can, and does override it when necessary. This insidious teaching of man's free will is dangerous. You are serving two masters, because you think your free will can stop God.

 

[nobdysfool]

So if your friend Rick said that he should come over your house, are you trying to tell me that he is saying he is comng over your house with a 100% absolute certainty? Bob says, I should stop eating candy but I just like it too much. Stephanie says I should stop smoking but I am addicted.

Hmmm.... doesnt' sound like the word "should" is an absolute certainty to me.

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An ignorant statement that shows that you aren't able to admit when you're wrong and have been shown to be wrong. Here is an extensive definition of the word "should":
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/should?s=t

 

[nobdysfool]

I believe God gives a believer a new heart and gives them new desires when they repent of their sins and they accept Him as their Savior. That does not mean God over-rides a person's free will to choose God or to reject Him anymore. A one time decision does not equate with one no longer having free will anymore.


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So God waits for our permission? He won't give us a new heart that desires to please Him unless we give Him permission? So your so-called free will is that powerful?

 

[John Robie]

I believe God gives a believer a new heart and gives them new desires when they repent of their sins and they accept Him as their Savior. That does not mean God over-rides a person's free will to choose God or to reject Him anymore. A one time decision does not equate with one no longer having free will anymore.


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Let's see. God gives new desires. All righteousness is from God. Choosing God is righteous. But that is all because of your free will.

 

[John Robie]

We can only stop sinning by God's power. But God is not going to force people to stop sinning against their will. A person has to cooperate with God and want to stop sinning. God is not going to over-ride a person's free will. That is why we are here.


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The only good we do is Christ working in us. Wouldn't that include cooperating with Him?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

An ignorant statement that shows that you aren't able to admit when you're wrong and have been shown to be wrong. Here is an extensive definition of the word "should":
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/should?s=t

Please talk to an English teacher or to people who are educated and they will say the same thing I did.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Let's see. God gives new desires. All righteousness is from God. Choosing God is righteous. But that is all because of your free will.

Do you believe everyone has a free will choice to accept or reject Christ in this life? What about after they accept Christ? Is that free will still there? Or does God take away their free will?


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[nobdysfool]

Please talk to an English teacher or to people who are educated and they will say the same thing I did.


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My mother was an English teacher, and a very good one. I was taught proper usage, idioms, and definitions. I am an educated person, apparently more than you. The subtle flame is false, and you have been shown to be wrong. Man up and admit it.

 

[nobdysfool]

Do you believe everyone has a free will choice to accept or reject Christ in this life? What about after they accept Christ? Is that free will still there? Or does God take away their free will?


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You don't accept Christ, He accepts you, You receive Christ.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Being born again or regenerated in the present moment means one is saved. The moment one falls back into a lifestyle of sin, they no longer have a new heart and a new spirit anymore. They then become a slave to sin and not a slave to righteousness. So if one chooses to depart from the living God (as Hebrews 3 talks about), then they are choosing of their own "free will" to ignore their new changed heart and new life in favor of going back to their old life (Like a dog returning to his own vomit). Clearly such an individual was saved initially when they surrendered their life to God and they later became unsaved by choosing to depart from God. For even Lucifer was created perfect, until iniquity was found within him (Because he made a "free will" choice to turn against God).

"Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee." (Ezekiel 28:15).


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That's the problem with referring to it as "being saved" it's easy to treat it as a citizenship that can be revoked as with earthly governments.

We not made like the angels, so the comparison with lucifer is not apt.

Salvation is about being born again by virtue of the life Jesus has, and living the new life, based on the power of what made them new creations.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So God waits for our permission? He won't give us a new heart that desires to please Him unless we give Him permission? So your so-called free will is that powerful?

God saves in Justification, Sanctification, and Glorification. But God does not choose for us in our decision to accept Him or reject Him. We also have to cooperate with God in allowing Him to work within us. We are not forced against our wills to believe; And we are not dragged about like rag dolls doing His will, either.

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[Bible Highlighter]

You don't accept Christ, He accepts you, You receive Christ.

If that was the case, then the Judgment would be a joke or a farce because man could not be held responsible for any evil they did because God gave them no other choice.

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[nobdysfool]

God saves in Justification, Sanctification, and Glorification. But God does not choose for us in our decision to accept Him or reject Him. We also have to cooperate with God in allowing Him to work within us. We are not forced against our wills to believe; And we are not dragged about like rag dolls doing His will, either.

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Which shows that you have no knowledge of that which you think to oppose. No one has ever said what you accuse. Another straw man, and a deflection. God saves to the uttermost those who trust in Him. You need to let go of this idea that somehow you are in control. You're not. You can't even draw your next breath unless God allows it.

 

[John Robie]

Do you believe everyone has a free will choice to accept or reject Christ in this life? What about after they accept Christ? Is that free will still there? Or does God take away their free will?


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I believe that everyone could choose to follow Christ. I also believe that unless they are regenerate, they will not. Remember, you said that any good we do is because of His righteousness. So that would include believing in Him.

Do you believe we will still have free will to sin in heaven?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The judgment is like the first judgment as the humans left the garden. God will ask questions, and if we blame one another and everyone but ourselves like the first humans, we simply will not enter the new heaven and new earth. But those in the book (heart) of the lamb will be given the judgment on the basis of the response of Jesus "forgive them, they know not what they do"

basically, our judgment of others is our judgment, because it writes the story of our life.

 

[nobdysfool]

If that was the case, then the Judgment would be a joke or a farce because man could not be held responsible for any evil they did because God gave them no other choice. ....

That does not even address what I said. Please use a couple of brain cells before you respond.

Acceptance implies a transaction between equals, like a business transaction, "I accept your offer to buy my company" In Salvation we receive Christ. It is not a transaction between equals, it is our acquiescence to the Higher Power, the Sovereign Lord God Almighty.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Stop worshiping your free will. God can, and does override it when necessary. This insidious teaching of man's free will is dangerous. You are serving two masters, because you think your free will can stop God.

That's a lot of assumptions about what I believe. God accomplishes His ultimate good and plan using both good and bad people. But there is a "will" of God that is not being accomplished, though. God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). Will everyone repent? No. So this desire by God for everyone to repent is not going to happen and God is not going to force anyone to repent against their will or anything silly like that.

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