Food for thought.

[bhsmte]

Of course you will. For you the issue is not evidence or the lack thereof, it is an issue of you loving sin more than righteousness, of dark more than light. You reject the light so that you might live in darkness. So that you may sin, that you may use your body's members as instruments of wickedness and unrighteousness and lawlessness.

The thing that I find amusing is that people like you won't come out and say it directly, but only after one asks you the right question. You want to hide behind the facade and smokescreen of skepticism as if you would repent and believe and surrender your life to God if only you had good reason to. I see through that because that is how I used to think. I cared more about deceiving others than denying myself, repenting, and walking in the light as He is in the Light. For He is Light.

And I would be willing to wager, if I were someone who engaged in such things, that someone who hates the fact that I have said what I have said will report me to the forum moderators.

So be it.

How do you know why he doesn't believe what you do?

Can you read his mind?

 

[bhsmte]

You know, it's funny... I'm sort of having deja vu here.

Jeremy was always after a debate. In fact, Ana accepted, but then Jeremy disappeared. Perhaps you would like to take his place?

Yea, this has been obvious for quite a while.

 

[Chriliman]

Why would the heavenly father be selective in planting?

Doesn't sound like a loving God who cares for all his creation.

The message that God's trying to convey with that passage is if you've found yourself fallen into the ditch of life where you have no hope or security in anything, where will you reach for help? If you rely on yourself or those that lead you there to help you out, you'll just fall into a new deeper ditch. We see this happen to people all the time, downward spirals into destruction.

God is trying to convey that there is freedom from these downward spirals if one would only recognize where that freedom comes from. It comes from God.

I hope you all haven't already decided to ignore everything I say because I'd like to leave you with this to ponder:

It is true that this life is thick with deception that keeps us blinded to the truth, if you deny that then you're clearly being deceived by the deception. Those that recognize this truth realize that truth is all that we can rely on to cut through the thick deception and remove the blinders.

That statement is both true from an Atheist's perspective and a Christian's perspective, the real question is who's being deceived and what will free them from that deception? The answer is that the truth will free us and I think what God is trying to convey above can explain what the truth is, will you listen when there's no other truth to turn to?

Life is a struggle between truth and deception, the hope we find that keeps us going is in knowing that truth wins over deception every time.

There is hope.

 

[anonymous person]

I said I'd debate you. What do you want to debate?

God, The Bible, and sex.

You argue for God not wanting people to have sex. I shall argue that you are wrong. Set the debate up.

 

[Ana the Ist]

God, The Bible, and sex.

You argue for God not wanting people to have sex. I shall argue that you are wrong. Set the debate up.

Ummm...you want me to take the affirmative when you're the one who wanted to debate?

Why don't you take the affirmative as "god wants us to have sex"...I'll disagree...and you set it up.

 

[Davian]

If it is to be shut down, then it is to be shut down.

..because rules shouldn't apply to you. Got it.

Wherever you go in this world there will be people with the name of Jesus on their lips. Whether it be this forum, or your local grocery store. Jesus' influence permeates the world as salt permeates that which it is applied to.

It seems pretty diluted here where I live. Even the JW's visit's are rare. But then, they are not Real Christians, are they?

In hell, you shall be free from this and from me and from Chriliman, and all of the other fools because that is where you are headed. Straight to hell.

...for things beyond my control, whatever. But, I can't seem to impress upon you how little I fear your scare tactics. What I find interesting is how awkward you seem when discussing the particulars of your theology, when not just talking about gods as if they were real.

You think its funny now to mock and ridicule them that through longsuffering and patience through love seek to show you the error of your ways.

Try taking a break from your proselytizing and show me those errors. Let us critically analyze the specifics of your beliefs.

I used to be just like you. Then I became a man.

Again with the insults. You must have a different understanding of the word "love" than I do.

 

[Davian]

Telling you that you will go to hell if you do not repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins is not meant to be an insult.

I don't think that was the insult that was being referred to.

That is just how you take it. As I said, wherever Adam is, wherever there is the rankest of pride and self serving and self seeking, there is defensiveness. Lay that down. Humble yourself so that God can exalt you.

Not while it remains, by every objective measure to date, a fictional character in a book.

Your high notions of yourself account for nothing in God's eyes. The heart beating in your chest beats because He wills it to beat, not because you will it to.

And my flush toilet only works because God wills it, not because of the principles of gravity and suction. Go on, go on.

Debate me then. Let's start a formal debate thread just between you and I.

Which web site will you be cutting and pasting from? Can you not just post the links an be done with it?

I am repeating what you told me. You said you like doing things the Bible condemns. God has already pronounced judgment on you and anyone that does not receive the Son. It has been written long ago.

I am being judged for things beyond my control? Is that not morally bankrupt?

I am no different than the man that tells a friend they have a deadly disease and need to be cured of it or they will die.

You are more like the guy that runs from house to house, yelling "fire, fire!", yet is unable to point to any smoke or flames, or any reason for why there should be flames.

You will die and go to hell my friend if you persist in unbelief.

Belief is not a conscious choice. Is your theology still up on the hoist?

Whether or not you like that idea, whether or not you believe it, whether or not you care or don't, the fact remains, you are a sinner.

Religious dogma is not 'fact'.

God is Holy. Christ has paid it all for you. Do not continue to reject Him. If you do and you die, it is this conversation and the multitudinous others you have had that God will call to your remembrance in that day and it will be shown that you did not believe because you loved darkness and were too proud to humble yourself. Don't let pride cause you to be consigned to eternal damnation.

Belief is not a conscious choice.

God is not mocked.

No, but the antics of certain members of an anonymous internet forum are fair game.

That which a man sows, that shall he reap. Some blind and ignorant people

Again with the insults.

call it "Karma". You've seen it. You will reap what you sow.

I don't believe in Karma either.

 

[Davian]

Sure it is. I am a disciple of his and I am engaged in a discussion with men, who like the pharisees, are possessed of the rankest of pride and self-righteousness. So yes, what he says applies, not only to you, but anyone else who is self-righteous and willfully ignorant and blind. If the shoe fits wear it.

How then do you interpret Luke 14:26–33? Luke 18:18-22? Metaphorical, at your convenience?

 

[DerelictJunction]

How is asking someone to prove a negative the same as asking someone to demonstrate that there is no meaning beyond their own physical life? The truth that meaning exists even beyond life is demonstrated every day when someone else dies.

What!!? How is the death of a person demonstrating that meaning exists beyond what we as individuals put on it?

Why does meaning continue when someone else dies, but when you die meaning must cease? If you can demonstrate how this could be true, I would believe you.

Meaning continues for me when someone else dies because I am still alive. You have not demonstrated that meaning continues for the dead person.

 

[Chriliman]

Meaning continues for me when someone else dies because I am still alive.

I agree.

You have not demonstrated that meaning continues for the dead person.

And I can't possibility demonstrate that meaning continues for the dead person. The point is that if meaning does continue after death then that truth would be demonstrated only to the person who died. It would be a personal demonstration of truth that only occurs after you die.

If meaning does not continue after death then this truth can't ever be demonstrated to anyone, personally or otherwise. If a truth can't possibly be demonstrated ever to anyone, is it reasonable to accept it as true? If so, why?

 

[HitchSlap]

If meaning does not continue after death then this truth can't ever be demonstrated to anyone, personally or otherwise. If a truth can't possibly be demonstrated ever to anyone, is it reasonable to accept it as true? If so, why?

Why? Because you accept as "true" what you believe to be true. Which is, only reasonable to you.

 

[Chriliman]

Why? Because you accept as "true" what you believe to be true. Which is, only reasonable to you.

That's fine. I just want to be clear that you think it's reasonable to accept something as true that can never be demonstrated as true to you personally?

 

[HitchSlap]

That's fine. I just want to be clear that you think it's reasonable to accept something as true that can never be demonstrated as true to you personally?

No. You and I have different criteria when determining reality.

 

[Davian]

I agree.



And I can't possibility demonstrate that meaning continues for the dead person. The point is that if meaning does continue after death then that truth would be demonstrated only to the person who died. It would be a personal demonstration of truth that only occurs after you die.

If meaning does not continue after death then this truth can't ever be demonstrated to anyone, personally or otherwise. If a truth can't possibly be demonstrated ever to anyone, is it reasonable to accept it as true? If so, why?

Let me see if I can unbend these twisted semantics.

"If cannot prove me wrong about life after death, even by dying and remaining dead, then why shouldn't I believe it?"

Is that accurate?

 

[Chriliman]

No. You and I have different criteria when determining reality.

Okay.

Do you agree it's unreasonable to accept something as true that can never be demonstrated as true to you personally?

 

[Chriliman]

Let me see if I can unbend these twisted semantics.

"If cannot prove me wrong about life after death, even by dying and remaining dead, then why shouldn't I believe it?"

Is that accurate?

Not exactly.

Life after death can only proven to the person who dies.

No life after death can never be proven to anyone, ever. Therefore, it's unreasonable to accept the truth that there is no life after death. (because it can never be demonstrated, ever)

 

[HitchSlap]

Okay.

Do you agree it's unreasonable to accept something as true that can never be demonstrated as true to you personally?

Accepting something as true without evidence is faith.

 

[Chriliman]

Accepting something as true without evidence is faith.

So you don't necessarily believe that there is no life after death? Because it requires faith to believe that?

 

[Davian]

Not exactly.

Life after death can only proven to the person who dies.

No life after death can never be proven to anyone, ever. Therefore, it's unreasonable to accept the truth that there is no life after death. (because it can never be demonstrated, ever)

If "life" involves breathing, consuming, excreting, and being subject to entropy, what you mean by "life" after death? Can you define this whatever-it-is that you believe in?

 

[HitchSlap]

So you don't necessarily believe that there is no life after death? Because it requires faith to believe that?

As I said, your threshold for "truth" is quite a bit lower than mine.

(FGS, you can't even construct a proper sentence.)