Food for thought.

[Chriliman]

I said nothing about new information. This is about consciously deciding to change what you believe in the absence of new information. Can you do it or not?

No and nobodies asking you to change your beliefs in the absence of new information. I keep giving you new information for a reason. But it's not benefiting you so I see no reason to continue this conversation at this time. Thanks for your time

 

[Chriliman]

No...you can't.

You've asked plenty of questions on these threads...you've gotten plenty of truthful answers too. The problem is that you dismiss any answers (even truthful ones) that don't support what you already believe. That's the definition of closed-minded.

Simply asking questions doesn't give you control over your beliefs...nor does it make you open-minded.

So I can't control my beliefs by asking questions but I could control my beliefs by sticking my head in the sand?

Sticking my head in the sand controls my beliefs by not allowing them to be influenced. That's the truth.

 

[anonymous person]

Reality exists.

I agree my friend.

We can learn about reality.

You're batting a 1000 so far! Two for two...

Falsifiable models with predictive capabilities are the best way to learn about reality.

**Loud Game-show Buzzer Sounds.....**

You've struck out.

The statement is neither falsifiable nor capable of making predictions. Thus, it is not the best way to go about learning about reality.

**Curtain closes**

Fade to black.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

**Loud Game-show Buzzer Sounds.....**

You've struck out.

The statement is neither falsifiable nor capable of making predictions. Thus, it is not the best way to go about learning about reality.

**Curtain closes**

Fade to black.

AntiCitizenX addresses this point (4:32).

 

[HitchSlap]

I agree my friend.



You're batting a 1000 so far! Two for two...



**Loud Game-show Buzzer Sounds.....**

You've struck out.

The statement is neither falsifiable nor capable of making predictions. Thus, it is not the best way to go about learning about reality.

**Curtain closes**

Fade to black.

Lemmeguess, you would have answered "prayer?"

Amiright?

You're free to believe what you need to keep your fragile narrative intact. Me, I'd rather see the world as it is. The truth matters, and it should matter to you too.

 

[asherahSamaria]

When Jesus was on earth he had free will. He only chose what was good which is why he's perfect and we're not.

Complete misdirection to the point raised - do you want to try again?

 

[Ana the Ist]

So I can't control my beliefs by asking questions but I could control my beliefs by sticking my head in the sand?

Sticking my head in the sand controls my beliefs by not allowing them to be influenced. That's the truth.

What do you consider "sticking your head in the sand"?

Is it the denial of answers that don't agree with your worldview? Is it pushing those thoughts to the side without giving them any serious consideration?

Is it avoiding questions that have answers that you don't want to consider? Is it the deliberate attempt to misrepresent the positions of others? Does it involve calling other worldviews false without knowing what they entail? Does it require redefining words to make your worldview more plausible?

It's difficult, and it requires a lot of work...but I think you've shown that sticking your head into the sand can control what you don't believe.

 

[Ana the Ist]

So then it does matter what you assume because if you assume God exists and admit we have God-given free will, then not choosing to follow God's will means your choosing to not follow God's will, which means you can expect to suffer because of that choice, until you choose to follow God's good will.



The simple truth is that this is not reality. A god that created us with the same inclination never to murder during our lifetimes clearly does not exist because if it did then there would be no murder. It's either God created us and puts the option of good and bad before us so that we can choose -or- god does not exist at all and our free will is an illusion.

Why would free will be an illusion if god didn't exist? Why would his non-existence affect our ability to make choices?

Why does free will matter to him at all anyway? If you're going to spend an eternity without free will in heaven....why does it matter that you have it for such a short time while alive? Especially when being in heaven without free will is the goal of every christian to begin with...

 

[Chriliman]

Complete misdirection to the point raised - do you want to try again?

The God I believe in has free will to do as he pleases and he only desires what is good. He still gets angry, but has free will to practice self control. If an omniscient and omnipotent God exists and only wants what is good and doesn't have self control then we'd all be dead because we're all corrupt and evil when compared to this God.

 

[Chriliman]

Why would free will be an illusion if god didn't exist? Why would his non-existence affect our ability to make choices?

Why does free will matter to him at all anyway? If you're going to spend an eternity without free will in heaven....why does it matter that you have it for such a short time while alive? Especially when being in heaven without free will is the goal of every christian to begin with...

Simple answer is that God wants us to freely choose him and once we do we are rewarded beyond earthly measure.

The best answer science has for free will is that it's an illusion. They think our desires are determined by something else other than ourselves. That answer doesn't cut it for me. Something else is going on here.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Simple answer is that God wants us to freely choose him and once we do we are rewarded beyond earthly measure.

But that means he freely created people that he already knew would never freely choose him.

 

[asherahSamaria]

The God I believe in has free will to do as he pleases and he only desires what is good. He still gets angry, but has free will to practice self control. If an omniscient and omnipotent God exists and only wants what is good and doesn't have self control then we'd all be dead because we're all corrupt and evil when compared to this God.

"The God I believe in has free will to do as he pleases and he only desires what is good" - then he can't be omnipotent because if he has free will he does not know what will happen in the future.

"If an omniscient and omnipotent God exists and only wants what is good" - which clearly isn't the case - hello "problem of evil".

 

[Chriliman]

But that means he freely created people that he already knew would never freely choose him.

God created all beings with free will to choose Him or not. If a created being never chooses to personally know God, how can God ever personally know them? All God knows is that they exist and are defying Him and thus must be punished for only wanting evil. Yes, God creates good and creates evil, but the reason he does this is to maintain free will in His created beings to freely choose Him(good) or not(evil).

 

[Chriliman]

"The God I believe in has free will to do as he pleases and he only desires what is good" - then he can't be omnipotent because if he has free will he does not know what will happen in the future.

"If an omniscient and omnipotent God exists and only wants what is good" - which clearly isn't the case - hello "problem of evil".

An omniscient and omnipotent God creates good and creates evil and presents the options for all created beings to freely choose. God knows those who choose good(Himself), God also knows those who only choose evil(not Himself). He rewards those who choose good and he punishes those who choose evil.

This is a simple concept to understand, but very difficult to believe. Obviously, not impossible to believe especially since it's supported by scripture, which consequently is God breathed. Makes perfect sense to me, why shouldn't I believe it?

 

[Chriliman]

But that means he freely created people that he already knew would never freely choose him.

If that is true, then why do you still have the option to choose God? Clearly God is being merciful to you personally whether you believe it right now or not.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Simple answer is that God wants us to freely choose him and once we do we are rewarded beyond earthly measure.

The best answer science has for free will is that it's an illusion. They think our desires are determined by something else other than ourselves. That answer doesn't cut it for me. Something else is going on here.

I've never heard "science" claim that the best explanation for free will is that it's an illusion. I think you're misrepresenting it.

Why does it matter if we choose god with free will? Why would he care about that? If he loves us, why not just place us all in heaven?

 

[asherahSamaria]

An omniscient and omnipotent God creates good and creates evil and presents the options for all created beings to freely choose. God knows those who choose good(Himself), God also knows those who only choose evil(not Himself). He rewards those who choose good and he punishes those who choose evil.

This is a simple concept to understand, but very difficult to believe. Obviously, not impossible to believe especially since it's supported by scripture, which consequently is God breathed. Makes perfect sense to me, why shouldn't I believe it?

He rewards those who choose good and he punishes those who choose evil - why? Why create something in the first place that he would feel necessary to punish for using the free will that he gave them? That is the actions of a sadist.

 

[Chriliman]

He rewards those who choose good and he punishes those who choose evil - why? Why create something in the first place that he would feel necessary to punish for using the free will that he gave them? That is the actions of a sadist.

The reason is to move towards completion where God can rest and not create anything anymore. A state of complete creation, which from our perspective has not been reached yet.

 

[Chriliman]

I've never heard "science" claim that the best explanation for free will is that it's an illusion. I think you're misrepresenting it.

Why does it matter if we choose god with free will? Why would he care about that? If he loves us, why not just place us all in heaven?

Because for those who don't choose God and love God, heaven will not be a place they'll want to go to. You currently don't care to go to heaven do you?

 

[asherahSamaria]

The reason is to move towards completion where God can rest and not create anything anymore. A state of complete creation, which from our perspective has not been reached yet.

That answers exactly .... nothing.