The origins of atheism

[KCfromNC]

What you do not realize...is the world is what is made up ("created")

Of course. I also don't realize that unicorns are real, the moon is made of cheese, or all sorts of other false claims.

But with that out of the way, do you have any reason I should disregard the revealed truth I'm getting telling me that you're just spouting nonsense?

 

[Chriliman]

So you are portraying your "god" like a bug embedded in amber.

Only those photons that are absorbed by the chemicals in our respective retinas.

Just not in any way that you can demonstrate.

You can't demonstrate that photons experience no time and no space either. The mathematics only point to it as being true.

I'm pointing out how God can be thought of in the same way.

The mathematics point to God, whether you believe it or not.

 

[quatona]

Decisions are not ''always'' instantaneous, there a many willed actions such the first musical instrument you picked to play. Subconscious mind and conscious mind work together by interacting and sharing duties.

I didn´t question that they were instantaneous or not, conscious or not. I questioned that they were free.

meditate on how many new things you learn per day which is related to free will because subconscious mind has not yet had a chance to learn.

I fail to see how it´s related to "free will". It certainly is related to will, though.
So what, in your terminology, elevates are mere will to a "free will"?

 

[DogmaHunter]

Sorry, if your comment is not to the point, I tend not to reply.

How is that not to the point we were discussing?

Humans are animals. By definition of the words "human" and "animal".

Try to come up with a descriptive definition of "animal" that includes all animals but excludes humans (without including "...but not humans" or alike in the definition).

Consider it a challenge.

 

[DogmaHunter]

There are millions of animal kinds. Why should we be special?

We aren't.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Sounds like you have made your choice.

I don't "choose" my beliefs.

I can't rationally believe something that doesn't convince me. Nore can I force myself to believe things that don't convince me.

 

[Zlatanara]

I didn´t question that they were instantaneous or not, conscious or not. I questioned that they were free.


I fail to see how it´s related to "free will". It certainly is related to will, though.
So what, in your terminology, elevates are mere will to a "free will"?

novelty requires more of consciousness than unconsciousness, anything that has consciousness is regarded as will, what makes it free will? well it doesn't cost you to be conscious and only thing that limits you from being more conscious is things you don't understand. Indeed your consciousness is limited, but you are not limited to unconsciousness.

 

[juvenissun]

We aren't.

You are totally lost in this thread.

 

[quatona]

novelty requires more of consciousness than unconsciousness, anything that has consciousness is regarded as will, what makes it free will? well it doesn't cost you to be conscious and only thing that limits you from being more conscious is things you don't understand. Indeed your consciousness is limited, but you are not limited to unconsciousness.

So "free" just means "conscious" here?

 

[DogmaHunter]

If your child has committed suicide, there is nothing absurd about it. It is heartrending to have to go through it and it is so sad that atheists just treat is as nothing more than an exercise is semantics or word games or use it as an exercise to show how wonderful and intelligent they are.

No doubt that with every sentence it becomes clearer and clearer that you have no idea what real life is all about. Your insecurity is so obvious the fact that you cannot contemplate ever being wrong or anyone else being right.

This has nothing to do with the point at hand of negative claims.
Frankly, I have no clue why you're bringing any of this into the conversation.

When I said that your comments concerning suicide are absurd, I meant that they are absurd in context of the converstation.

It's like starting to talk about car tires and combustion engines in a conversation about rainbows. Just... absurd.

 

[DogmaHunter]

You are totally lost in this thread.

Coming from you, that doesn't mean much to me.

Do you have a constructive comment as well?

 

[Colter]

ecco:

​

Whoa. Slow down Colter. Did you not read my post down through and beyond my admitted "Oooops, I'm wrong again"? I quoted the entire 51:2.2 from the Blue Book to show you that I understand how the Adams and Eves got from one place to another.



Yeah. I got it:

51:2.2 ... it requires the co-operation of a Life Carrier to restore such a dematerialized creature to normal existence upon arrival at the end of the seraphic-transport journey.
​

Maybe I'm being too picky, but that should read "dematerialized creatures" since both an Adam and an Eve made the journey.

It may be somewhere else in the Blue Book, but 51:2.2 doesn't address how the Life Carrier got to the arrival point to restore such dematerialized creature(s). (I did ask you that question in my above quoted post):

"But then, how does the Life Carrier get here?" ​

I think that's an important consideration and deserving of an answer.


There sure is lotsa good stuff in there which is why I asked: "Are you sure L. Ron Hubbard didn't write the Blue Book?" However, after more reflection, Hubbard wasn't on the level of the writers of the Blue Book. Maybe he was a reader and got a lot of good ideas on how to start a big religion.

*Yes, too picky.

* The common mode of transportation within the grand universe is the "Transport Seraphim". That is to say, they are the transport vehicle. Think of them like a cab. There are trillions of them in a vast universe.

39:5.11 "Your conventional idea of angels has been derived in the following way: During moments just prior to physical death a reflective phenomenon sometimes occurs in the human mind, and this dimming consciousness seems to visualize something of the form of the attending angel, and this is immediately translated into terms of the habitual concept of angels held in that individual's mind.

39:5.12 The erroneous idea that angels possess wings is not wholly due to olden notions that they must have wings to fly through the air. Human beings have sometimes been permitted to observe seraphim that were being prepared for transport service, and the traditions of these experiences have largely determined the Urantian concept of angels. In observing a transport seraphim being made ready to receive a passenger for interplanetary transit, there may be seen what are apparently double sets of wings extending from the head to the foot of the angel. In reality these wings are energy insulators—friction shields.

39:5.13 When celestial beings are to be enseraphimed for transfer from one world to another, they are brought to the headquarters of the sphere and, after due registry, are inducted into the transit sleep. Meantime, the transport seraphim moves into a horizontal position immediately above the universe energy pole of the planet. While the energy shields are wide open, the sleeping personality is skillfully deposited, by the officiating seraphic assistants, directly on top of the transport angel. Then both the upper and lower pairs of shields are carefully closed and adjusted.

39:5.14 And now, under the influence of the transformers and the transmitters, a strange metamorphosis begins as the seraphim is made ready to swing into the energy currents of the universe circuits. To outward appearance the seraphim grows pointed at both extremities and becomes so enshrouded in a queer light of amber hue that very soon it is impossible to distinguish the enseraphimed personality. When all is in readiness for departure, the chief of transport makes the proper inspection of the carriage of life, carries out the routine tests to ascertain whether or not the angel is properly encircuited, and then announces that the traveler is properly enseraphimed, that the energies are adjusted, that the angel is insulated, and that everything is in readiness for the departing flash. The mechanical controllers, two of them, next take their positions. By this time the transport seraphim has become an almost transparent, vibrating, torpedo-shaped outline of glistening luminosity. Now the transport dispatcher of the realm summons the auxiliary batteries of the living energy transmitters, usually one thousand in number; as he announces the destination of the transport, he reaches out and touches the near point of the seraphic carriage, which shoots forward with lightninglike speed, leaving a trail of celestial luminosity as far as the planetary atmospheric investment extends. In less than ten minutes the marvelous spectacle will be lost even to reinforced seraphic vision.

39:5.15 While planetary space reports are received at noon at the meridian of the designated spiritual headquarters, the transporters are dispatched from this same place at midnight. That is the most favorable time for departure and is the standard hour when not otherwise specified." UB 1955


​

 

[Colter]

No, you didn't.

What was the question that I did not answer.....or that you did not like the answer you received?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

What was the question that I did not answer.....or that you did not like the answer you received?

The question about differentiating between testimonies.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

*Yes, to picky.

* The common mode of transportation within the grand universe is the "Transport Seraphim". That is to say, they are the transport vehicle. Think of them like a cab. There are trillions of them in a vast universe.

39:5.11 "Your conventional idea of angels has been derived in the following way: During moments just prior to physical death a reflective phenomenon sometimes occurs in the human mind, and this dimming consciousness seems to visualize something of the form of the attending angel, and this is immediately translated into terms of the habitual concept of angels held in that individual's mind.

39:5.12 The erroneous idea that angels possess wings is not wholly due to olden notions that they must have wings to fly through the air. Human beings have sometimes been permitted to observe seraphim that were being prepared for transport service, and the traditions of these experiences have largely determined the Urantian concept of angels. In observing a transport seraphim being made ready to receive a passenger for interplanetary transit, there may be seen what are apparently double sets of wings extending from the head to the foot of the angel. In reality these wings are energy insulators—friction shields.

39:5.13 When celestial beings are to be enseraphimed for transfer from one world to another, they are brought to the headquarters of the sphere and, after due registry, are inducted into the transit sleep. Meantime, the transport seraphim moves into a horizontal position immediately above the universe energy pole of the planet. While the energy shields are wide open, the sleeping personality is skillfully deposited, by the officiating seraphic assistants, directly on top of the transport angel. Then both the upper and lower pairs of shields are carefully closed and adjusted.

39:5.14 And now, under the influence of the transformers and the transmitters, a strange metamorphosis begins as the seraphim is made ready to swing into the energy currents of the universe circuits. To outward appearance the seraphim grows pointed at both extremities and becomes so enshrouded in a queer light of amber hue that very soon it is impossible to distinguish the enseraphimed personality. When all is in readiness for departure, the chief of transport makes the proper inspection of the carriage of life, carries out the routine tests to ascertain whether or not the angel is properly encircuited, and then announces that the traveler is properly enseraphimed, that the energies are adjusted, that the angel is insulated, and that everything is in readiness for the departing flash. The mechanical controllers, two of them, next take their positions. By this time the transport seraphim has become an almost transparent, vibrating, torpedo-shaped outline of glistening luminosity. Now the transport dispatcher of the realm summons the auxiliary batteries of the living energy transmitters, usually one thousand in number; as he announces the destination of the transport, he reaches out and touches the near point of the seraphic carriage, which shoots forward with lightninglike speed, leaving a trail of celestial luminosity as far as the planetary atmospheric investment extends. In less than ten minutes the marvelous spectacle will be lost even to reinforced seraphic vision.

39:5.15 While planetary space reports are received at noon at the meridian of the designated spiritual headquarters, the transporters are dispatched from this same place at midnight. That is the most favorable time for departure and is the standard hour when not otherwise specified." UB 1955


​

Out of curiosity, did the UB happen to precede scientology or follow it?

 

[Colter]

The question about differentiating between testimonies.

My gosh, is this a freaking Easter egg hunt???? ask the question!!!! I do not remember!

 

[Colter]

Out of curiosity, did the UB happen to precede scientology or follow it?

L. Ron Hubbard was born the year the Urantia revelation began, 1911. Hubbard was a Sci fi writer in the days they were paid $.01 per word, so he wrote a lot of stuff.

The Urantia papers were set in nickel plates at R. L. Donnelly in Chicago around 1934. The celestials required study of the papers for some 20 years before permission was granted to publish the UB in 1955. [ Hubbard wrote Scientology in 1953].

 

[ecco]

*Yes, too picky.

* The common mode of transportation within the grand universe is the "Transport Seraphim". That is to say, they are the transport vehicle. Think of them like a cab. There are trillions of them in a vast universe.

39:5.11 "Your conventional idea of angels has been derived in the following way: During moments just prior to physical death a reflective phenomenon sometimes occurs in the human mind, and this dimming consciousness seems to visualize something of the form of the attending angel, and this is immediately translated into terms of the habitual concept of angels held in that individual's mind.

39:5.12 The erroneous idea that angels possess wings is not wholly due to olden notions that they must have wings to fly through the air. Human beings have sometimes been permitted to observe seraphim that were being prepared for transport service, and the traditions of these experiences have largely determined the Urantian concept of angels. In observing a transport seraphim being made ready to receive a passenger for interplanetary transit, there may be seen what are apparently double sets of wings extending from the head to the foot of the angel. In reality these wings are energy insulators—friction shields.

39:5.13 When celestial beings are to be enseraphimed for transfer from one world to another, they are brought to the headquarters of the sphere and, after due registry, are inducted into the transit sleep. Meantime, the transport seraphim moves into a horizontal position immediately above the universe energy pole of the planet. While the energy shields are wide open, the sleeping personality is skillfully deposited, by the officiating seraphic assistants, directly on top of the transport angel. Then both the upper and lower pairs of shields are carefully closed and adjusted.

39:5.14 And now, under the influence of the transformers and the transmitters, a strange metamorphosis begins as the seraphim is made ready to swing into the energy currents of the universe circuits. To outward appearance the seraphim grows pointed at both extremities and becomes so enshrouded in a queer light of amber hue that very soon it is impossible to distinguish the enseraphimed personality. When all is in readiness for departure, the chief of transport makes the proper inspection of the carriage of life, carries out the routine tests to ascertain whether or not the angel is properly encircuited, and then announces that the traveler is properly enseraphimed, that the energies are adjusted, that the angel is insulated, and that everything is in readiness for the departing flash. The mechanical controllers, two of them, next take their positions. By this time the transport seraphim has become an almost transparent, vibrating, torpedo-shaped outline of glistening luminosity. Now the transport dispatcher of the realm summons the auxiliary batteries of the living energy transmitters, usually one thousand in number; as he announces the destination of the transport, he reaches out and touches the near point of the seraphic carriage, which shoots forward with lightninglike speed, leaving a trail of celestial luminosity as far as the planetary atmospheric investment extends. In less than ten minutes the marvelous spectacle will be lost even to reinforced seraphic vision.

39:5.15 While planetary space reports are received at noon at the meridian of the designated spiritual headquarters, the transporters are dispatched from this same place at midnight. That is the most favorable time for departure and is the standard hour when not otherwise specified." UB 1955


​

None of which, in my reading, answered the question I previously raised:

It may be somewhere else in the Blue Book, but 51:2.2 doesn't address how the Life Carrier got to the arrival point to restore such dematerialized creature(s). (I did ask you that question in my above quoted post):
"But then, how does the Life Carrier get here?"
I think that's an important consideration and deserving of an answer.
​

Perhaps you can point me to the part of 39:5.11-39:5.15 that addresses this question that I missed.

I have other questions about your above quote, but I guess it's better to address one question at a time.

 

[ecco]

It's more like God sees what we all did yesterday and today and tomorrow all in one moment of timelessness. We are still free to make choices, but He can see every choice ever made because He doesn't move along the timeline like we do.

So you are of the belief that god is omniscient and man has free will. Then you know that god created Adam & Eve with the absolute foreknowledge that they would disobey him in Eden - that he intentionally created "Original Sin".

He was and is and will be eternal existence. The limits of what God can create are endless...

That didn't address the question I asked...

ecco: What was he doing when he was experiencing eternity time? Did he make other universes? Did he make ours over and over until he got this one right?​

 

[ecco]

You can't demonstrate that photons experience no time and no space either. The mathematics only point to it as being true.
I'm pointing out how God can be thought of in the same way.
The mathematics point to God, whether you believe it or not.

I don't. Perhaps you could explain how the mathematics that "point to" "photons experience no time and no space" somehow indicate that these same mathematics "point to God".