Near perfect existence

[Chriliman]

I don't think that people are mere machines. And I fully accept that you might not find my arguments convincing. If you are convinced, it won't be because you've chosen to be convinced, but because you've thought about what I've said and realized that I'm right.

It is actually calls to faith that treat people like machines. It is like asking someone to download a program into their brains and run it without question.

Doesn't your argument come down to the fact that you actually don't know the truth about existence? Your asking me to think about what you've said so that I will agree that no one knows the truth and may never know the truth because it may never be knowable.

If not, what exactly is your argument? What are you wanting me to be convinced of?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Doesn't your argument come down to the fact that you actually don't know the truth about existence?

Something exists. There, that's the truth.

But I thought you were talking about some god...

 

[Chriliman]

Something exists. There, that's the truth.

But I thought you were talking about some god...

Saying it's true that we exist, explains absolutely nothing about the truth behind why or how things came to exist. Maybe existence is eternal and infinite and since we've begun to exist we will never cease to exist.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Saying it's true that we exist, explains absolutely nothing about the truth behind why or how things came to exist. Maybe existence is eternal and infinite and since we've begun to exist we will never cease to exist.

I exist because my parents had sex. And there's no reason to believe that we will never cease to exist (in the sense I'm guessing you mean), so I don't see why anyone would believe it.

 

[anonymous person]

I exist because my parents had sex. And there's no reason to believe that we will never cease to exist (in the sense I'm guessing you mean), so I don't see why anyone would believe it.

Your parents owe their existence to?

 

[quatona]

Your parents owe their existence to?

My grandma has been impregnated by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Davian]

Your parents owe their existence to?

I do vaguely recall my parents telling me of babies being delivered by storks. Here's more info:

1. Scientific storkism, like its close relative, scientific creationism, may be verified by demonstrating that somehow, somewhere, there is something wrong with reproductive biology. If there is something wrong with reproductive biology, scientific storkism must be true.
   [*]One argument for Intelligent Delivery is that there are Irreducibly complex features of living things, which therefore could not come about by gradual, random, reproductive processes, and therefore must have been intelligently delivered.
   [*]Another argument is that, for reproduction to work, the male cannot have been reproduced before the female, nor the female before the male.
   [*]Then there is the argument that Intelligent Delivery must be true because the alternative, Reproductive Biology is self-defeating. If we come about by a naturalistic process of reproduction, then how can we trust our knowledge? If we are the result of reproduction, then our knowledge of that fact is unreliable. Therefore, we must be designed. After all, if we are designed, then obviously our knowledge is reliable, because aren't all designed things reliable?
   [*]Studies have shown a significant correlation between the number of storks and the number of child deliveries in a given area, offering strong empirical support for Intelligent Delivery.
   [*]Further, it is argued that at least one counterexample exists, falsifying the other theory.

Innovation

A recent innovation in storkism is Intelligent Delivery, availing the Big Top strategy, which encompasses other beliefs about where babies come from, such as the Cabbage Patch Theory. Intelligent Delivery does not concern itself with controversies among the opponents of reproductive biology and does not decide for The Stork as being the Intelligent Deliverer.

At least, to be fair, the schools should give equal time to Intelligent Delivery, and let the kids decide which makes sense.

Scientific storkism - RationalWiki

 

[Davian]

Saying it's true that we exist, explains absolutely nothing about the truth behind why or how things came to exist.

"Why?" may not be a valid question, and "how?" may be beyond our capabilities. I see no value is postulating religious opinion on these subjects.

Maybe existence is eternal and infinite and since we've begun to exist we will never cease to exist.

Do you have anything to base that on beyond wishful thinking?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Your parents owe their existence to?

Their parents.

 

[anonymous person]

Their parents.

And to what does organic life owe it's existence to?

Do you have a hypothesis?

 

[Davian]

And to what does organic life owe it's existence to?

Do you have a hypothesis?

As my children approached the ages where they ask these 'big' questions, I sought to inform myself, as least to the laymen's level of understanding.

To that effect, I googled to here: Abiogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here: The Origins of Life | Science & Nature | Smithsonian Magazine

Here: Genesis: The Scientific Quest for Lifes Origins - YouTube

and I listened to this lecture series:

The Great Courses - Origins of Life

01 The Grand Question of Life's Origins.mp3
02 The Historical Setting of Origins Research.mp3
03 What Is Life.mp3
04 Is There Life on Mars.mp3
05 Earth's Oldest Fossils.mp3
06 Fossil Isotopes.mp3
07 Molecular Biosignatures.mp3
08 Emergence.mp3
09 The Miller-Urey Experiment.mp3
10 Life from the Bottom of the Sea.mp3
11 The Deep, Hot Biosphere.mp3
12 Experiments at High Pressure.mp3
13 More Experiments Under Pressure.mp3
14 Deep Space Dust, Molten Rock, and Zeolite.mp3
15 Macromolecules and the Tree of Life.mp3
16 Lipids and Membrane Self-Organization.mp3
17 Life on Clay, Clay as Life.mp3
18 Life's Curious Handedness.mp3
19 Self-Replicating Molecular Systems.mp3
20 Gunter Wachtershauser's Grand Hypothesis.mp3
21 The RNA World.mp3
22 The Pre-RNA World.mp3
23 Natural Selection and Competition.mp3
24 Three Scenarios for the Origin of Life.mp3

Interesting stuff.

Are you positing a god-of-the-gaps, or do you still need Adam and Eve and the flood and all that?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

And to what does organic life owe it's existence to?

Do you have a hypothesis?

Nope.

 

[quatona]

And to what does organic life owe it's existence to?

Do you have a hypothesis?

No, I have absolutely no idea.
Then again, I am not even sure that this is a valid question.

 

[Chriliman]

As my children approached the ages where they ask these 'big' questions, I sought to inform myself, as least to the laymen's level of understanding.

To that effect, I googled to here: Abiogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here: The Origins of Life | Science & Nature | Smithsonian Magazine

Here: Genesis: The Scientific Quest for Lifes Origins - YouTube

and I listened to this lecture series:

The Great Courses - Origins of Life

01 The Grand Question of Life's Origins.mp3
02 The Historical Setting of Origins Research.mp3
03 What Is Life.mp3
04 Is There Life on Mars.mp3
05 Earth's Oldest Fossils.mp3
06 Fossil Isotopes.mp3
07 Molecular Biosignatures.mp3
08 Emergence.mp3
09 The Miller-Urey Experiment.mp3
10 Life from the Bottom of the Sea.mp3
11 The Deep, Hot Biosphere.mp3
12 Experiments at High Pressure.mp3
13 More Experiments Under Pressure.mp3
14 Deep Space Dust, Molten Rock, and Zeolite.mp3
15 Macromolecules and the Tree of Life.mp3
16 Lipids and Membrane Self-Organization.mp3
17 Life on Clay, Clay as Life.mp3
18 Life's Curious Handedness.mp3
19 Self-Replicating Molecular Systems.mp3
20 Gunter Wachtershauser's Grand Hypothesis.mp3
21 The RNA World.mp3
22 The Pre-RNA World.mp3
23 Natural Selection and Competition.mp3
24 Three Scenarios for the Origin of Life.mp3

Interesting stuff.

Are you positing a god-of-the-gaps, or do you still need Adam and Eve and the flood and all that?

It seems you've listen to about everything. Is it possible that you've become accustomed to pumping information into your brain without actually taking the time to be silent and think for yourself?

Just a thought

 

[quatona]

It seems you've listen to about everything.
Is it possible that you've become accustomed to pumping information into your brain without actually taking the time to be silent and think for yourself?

Yeah, we even listen to you although your posts are free of any information or other intellectual nutrition value. And that appears to be exactly what you want us to.
Thanks for the reminder.

 

[anonymous person]

Yeah, we even listen to you although your posts are free of any information or other intellectual nutrition value. And that appears to be exactly what you want us to.
Thanks for the reminder.

If my life were in the hands of a stranger, I would rather he love me and be willing to lay down his life for me than for him to be willing only to give me a definition of what love is.

Knowledge without love tendeth to make man more prideful than compassionate. A doctor may know well what ails you and how to cure it, but if he loveth not enough to apply his knowledge, said knowledge is of no use to you. If he loves you, then he will avail himself of all that is within his power to aid you.

 

[Davian]

It seems you've listen to about everything.

Indeed. I listen to the religious, the scientific, to opinions and debate.

Is it possible that you've become accustomed to pumping information into your brain without actually taking the time to be silent and think for yourself?

No, I do that as well.

Just a thought

Have you considered pumping some information into your brain, from varied sources?

 

[anonymous person]

Indeed. I listen to the religious, the scientific, to opinions and debate.

No, I do that as well.

Have you considered pumping some information into your brain, from varied sources?

We have and we do. We just esteem God's words over man's, especially those who seem to be unable to be anything other than cynics.

 

[Davian]

We have and we do. We

Who is this "we" that you speak for?

just esteem God's words

...your particular interpretation of the bible...

over man's,

Can you be more specific? Young Earth or old? Global flood or not? Literal Adam and Eve or myth?

especially those who seem to be unable to be anything other than cynics.

Me, I'm a sceptic.

I'm also still waiting for you back at post #774. When you have a minute.

 

[anonymous person]

Me and my brother.

Your words.

Don't hold your breath.