Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
It's one thing to make a claim...yet another to explain why it's phoney.
Any fossils that are dated with carbon dating must be relatively young. Carbon dating only works to 50,000 years. Anything older than that and other elements like uranium are used.
No there weren't. All hoaxes. The first homo sapiens from which we descend appeared 250,000 years ago. Dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago.
Marius27, I think before you all the hoaxes you should first refute all of the evidence dinosaurs lived with humans.
To the right is a picture of a dinosaur fighting a mammoth from the book Buried Alive by Dr. Jack Cuozzo (click to enlarge). It was taken by the author in Bernifal Cave, one of the caverns in France that is renowned for Neanderthal artifacts. The cave was subsequently closed to the public. Science News was given the opportunity to publish the remarkable photo, but declined. It seems that evidence against the prevailing paradigm of naturalistic origin is selected against. It is buried alive by the scientific establishment. As Cuozzo says, this is natural selection in the most literal sense!
Although the Ottoman Empire ruled for over six centuries, there are not many depictions of dinosaurian creatures in their artwork (as compared to Medieval European art). Perhaps dragons were not as common in the eastern European/Middle East theater at that time. The Turkish painting to the left, entitled “Procession of the Trade Corporation during the Festival of 1720 in Constantinople” is in a surname (or historical album) called The Surname-I Hümayun archived at Topkapi Museum of Istanbul. It was written and illustrated under the direction of Abdulcelil Levni (aka Abdulcelil Çelebi) who was the official Ottoman court painter till he died in 1732. The picture shows the guildsmen, followed by clowns and what seems to be a mechanical three-headed dragon. (Click for an enlargement of the dragon.) Note the similarity to baby sauropods dinosaur. A sauropod with multiple heads, a condition known as polycephaly, while curious, is hardly unknown among dinosaur reports.
Chinese stories and stylized dragon depictions are fairly common. But an unusual beaked dragon statue came up on the antiquities market and is now in the Genesis Park collection. The bronze styling on this artifact suggests it is from the Han Dynasty (206 B.C. – A.D. 220). It displays numerous characteristics of the beaked dinosaurs (like the Oviraptor depicted alongside for comparison): tridactyl feet configuration, metatarsal stance, scale-like representation all over the body (except for the horn which has a striated pattern), long (albeit slender) tail, elaborate head crest and a long neck. This piece was submitted for industrial X-Ray authentication and the patina was also chemically tested, showing that the artifact was clearly genuine. A beautifully preserved beaked dinosaur mummy (Edmontosaurus) was discovered in Alberta, Canada in 2013. The specimen sported a fleshy crest atop its head (like a rooster). Researchers theorized that the hat-like ornament was brightly colored to allow for identification. This was the first non-bony crest discovered on a dinosaur. It closely matches the look of the Chinese beaked dragon.
The seated dragon sculpture in cast bronze to the left comes from the Tangy Dynasty and is currently housed at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art. Many more such dinosaur-like Chinese dragon depictions could be considered from this time period, like the painted ceramic dragon to the lower left, identified by the exhibiting museum as Tang Dynasty (618-906 AD). Next we consider an even older dragon artifact from the Shang dynasty (1766-1122 B.C.) that was advertised on the Chinese antiquities market as a dinosaur depiction. It displays relief lines in a scale-like pattern, a broad beak, a dermal frill, and a headcrest that is strikingly like the dinosaur Saurolophus (shown below on the right). This jade statute, now in the Genesis Park collection, is made of white colored nephrite with differential weathering, cleaving veins and earth penetration, demonstrating authenticity. (Click to enlarge.)
The February 26, 2000 issue of Science News contained an article that commented on a Hesione vase artifact housed at the Boston Museum of Fine Arts (Hesman, 2000). On this ancient Greek vase are a series of somewhat unusual paintings, including one that portrays a monster with the head of a dinosaur. This pottery was created around 550 B.C. and depicts the Greek hero Heracles rescuing Hesione from this “monster of Troy.” Forced to concede that it is an amazingly realistic dinosaurian depiction, Science News concluded that the paintings on this unusual vase simply prove that ancient people dug up and assembled fossils. But there is no evidence for sophisticated Ancient Paleontologists.
There are many striking similarities between these two depictions. The legs and feet on the artifact clearly fit the sauropods better than any other type of animal. The biggest difference is at the head. Cartilage forming the shape of a frill or ears may be stylized or accurate (since there is no way to know from the skeletons we have today). As for the musculature, the ancient artist draws with stunning realism. One has to ask where the artist got the model to draw so convincingly the trunk of a sauropod.
The January 2003 issue of National Geographic magazine presents an artifact described as a “cosmetic palette . . . from a cemetery of the first dynasties in Manshaat Ezzat.” These long-necked creatures displayed on page 78 fit the pattern of other ancient dinosaur-like depictions, including arching, muscular necks and stout bodies. This artifact depicts many lifelike animals (including a giraffe on the reverse). 
To the far right is displayed the Narmer Palette, which dates back to about 3,100 BC. It is from the ancient Egyptian capital of Hierakonpolis and shows the triumph of King Nar-mer with long necked dragons that appear to be in captivity. Immediately to the right is the Two Dog Palette from the same period. It is displaying a pair of “dinosaur-like” creatures along with numerous clear representations of living animals (clearly not drawn to scale).
To the left is a beautiful mosaic that was one of the wonders of the second century world. (Click to enlarge or see The Nile Mosaic of Palestrina for more details). Housed in Palestrina, which is just south of Rome, this masterpiece depicts Nile scenes from Egypt all the way up into Ethiopia. Scholars now believe this is the work of Demetrius the Topographer, an artist from Alexandria who came to work in Rome. The top portion of this remarkable piece of art is generally believed to depict African animals being hunted by black-skinned warriors. These Ethiopians are pursuing what appears to be some type of dinosaur. The Greek Letters above the reptilian animal in question are KROKODILOPARDALIS, which is literally translated Crocodile-Leopard (apparently identifying an agile reptilian creature). The picture shown here is only a small portion of the massive mosaic. It also contains clear depictions of known animals, including Egyptian crocodiles and hippos. (See Finley, The Light of the Past, 1965, p. 93.)
Indian reports describe Unktehi as a swamp-dwelling creature. Adrienne Mayor, an evolutionist, believes that the Sioux were weaving stories about fossils they encountered (Mayor, Fossil Legends of the First Americans,2005, pp. 235-237). But the pictures and description bring to mind the dinosaur Ankylosaurus (lower right) with a low slung body, long tail, heavy armor, and prominent multiple horns. A plated and horned creature has also been discovered in Cree Indian art (left – click to enlarge) on the Agawa Rock at Misshepezhieu, Lake Superior Provincial Park, Ontario, Canada.
On two occasions in the late 1800s, Samuel Hubbard, Curator of Archaeology of the Oakland Museum, visited an area of the Grand Canyon known as the Havasupai Canyon. As an evolutionist, he was amazed to find a petroglyph (carved rock drawing) of an elephant made by Native Americans. But another depiction was “cut into the sandstone much more deeply than the elephant.” Its height was 11.2 inches, with a neck approximately 5.1 inches in length and a tail of 9.1 inches. Hubbard photographed the petroglyph and eventually placed it in his scientific monograph Discoveries Relating to Prehistoric Man (1925, p. 10). What kind of animal is it? Dr. Hubbard believed that he had found an ancient drawing of a dinosaur. He wrote, “The fact that some prehistoric man made a pictograph of a dinosaur on the walls of this canyon upsets completely all of our theories regarding the antiquity of man. Facts are stubborn and immutable things. If theories do not square with the facts then the theories must change, the facts remain.” (Doheny, E. L., Discoveries Relating to Prehistoric Man by the Doheny Scientific Expedition in the Hava Supai Canyon Northern Arizona, 1924, p. 5.) In the far left picture, Paul Taylor compares this ancient drawing to the Edmontosaurus. (Click to enlarge the picture – courtesy of Don Patton.)
never seen such remarkable outlines of dinosaurs and mastodons!” Unfortunately this priceless artifact appears to have been lost somewhere in the bowels of the museum system. (Murphy, Jan, Mysteries and Legends of Colorado: True Stories of the Unsolved and Unexplained, 2007.) If a school teacher named Lela Smith had not taken three photos of the Buddha-like stone, the knowledge of this relic would have been lost.
“A fantastic mystery has developed over a set of cave paintings found in the Gorozomzi Hills, 25 miles from Salisbury. For the paintings include a brontosaurus – the 67-foot, 30-ton-like creature scientists believed became extinct millions of years before man appeared on earth. Yet the bushmen who did the paintings ruled Rhodesia from only 1500 BC until a couple of hundred years ago. And the experts agree that the bushmen always painted from life experiences. This belief is borne out by other Gorozomzi Hills cave paintings – accurate representations of the elephant, hippo, buck and giraffe. The mysterious pictures were found by Bevan Parkes, who owns the land the caves are on. Adding to the puzzle of the rock paintings found by Parkes is a drawing of a dancing bear.” (Anonymous, “Bushmen’s Paintings Baffling to Scientists,” Los Angeles Herald-Examiner, January 7, 1970.) To the left is a reproduction of just such a rock painting from a cave at Nachikufu near Mpika in northern Zimbabwe (formerly Rhodesia). It shows three long-necked, long-tailed creatures sketched in white. (Clark, Desmond J., “The Rock Paintings of Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland,” in Rock Art of Central Africa, edited by Roger summers, 1959, pp. 28-29, Fig. 52.)
The Bambara peoples of Mali Africa created wonderful wood and iron figurines in the 1800s. Humans, horses, antelopes, and much more are beautifully portrayed. To the right is an iron figure that was entitled “dinosaurian sculpture” by the auctioning gallery. It shows a four-legged creature with long neck and tail like a sauropod dinosaur. The neck has a slight widening and a ridged frill that makes it an especially fascinating depiction. The iron piece is actually a functional tool, with a hook at the end, perhaps used to retrieve a hot pot off the fire.
Another African tribe from the Mali region produced a dinosaurian object in the mid-1800s. Our friends at the s8int website note that this is the same time frame when Sir Richard Owen coined the term “dinosaur” in England. The bronze artifact to the left shows a Dogon tribesman riding a long-necked, long-tailed reptilian creature. The oddly bird-like head with strong jawline and ridged head and neck are reminiscent of certain “duck-billed” ornithopod dinosaurs like the Gryposaurus, whose skeleton is found in the Kaiparowits Formation in Utah. The diamond-shaped pattern on the skin matches fossilized skin impressions discovered on a hadrosaur in southern Utah. The sizes of the Dogon rider and the large-nosed Gryposaurus are modeled roughly in correct proportion.
In the 1920s thirty-one Roman-style lead artifacts were excavated near Tucson, AZ (see right). These are described on p. 331 of David Hatcher’s book The Lost Cities of North & Central America and were featured on the History Channel’s 2013 show America Unearthed. These lead objects appear to be religious in nature with Hebrew and Latin inscribed upon the swords, spears and crosses. They were buried about five feet below the desert surface in a layer of caliche (a cement-like mixture of desert soil and minerals). Skeptics have questioned the authenticity of these artifacts because the discovery site contains no other artifacts (like pottery, broken glass, bones, ashes or houses) that might validate the existence of Medieval colony. But perhaps this location was merely a ceremonial storage location. Supporters point out the value of the significant amount of burial work and expensive lead involved and wonder what
the motivation could be for such an elaborate hoax? After all, just one cross weighs 62 pounds! Microscopic analysis of the mineralization build up on the implements seems to argue for them being genuine. A 1972 attempt to dig on location to search for additional objects was curtailed due to legal challenges. But one of the biggest objections to the authenticity of the Tucson Silverbell artifacts is the precise carvings of an apparent Diplodocus dinosaur on the sword (click right to see it highlighted). The artifacts have been stored at the Arizona Historical Society.
To the left is pictured an Ica Ceremonial Burial Stone from the Nasca culture (100 BC to 800AD) that is carved in a bas relief technique. In 1500s the Spanish Conquistadors brought back stories that there were stones with strange creatures carved on them found in Peru. Some of the stones were even brought back to Spain. The Incan Chronicler Juan de Santa Cruz Pachucuti Lumqui wrote in 1571 about the strange engraved stones in Ica. (See Swift, Dennis, Secrets of the Ica Stones, 2006.) Dom Geronomo Cabrera was a Spanish conquistador who settled the area of Ica in 1570.One of his descendants, Dr. Javier Cabrera, saw these stones as a child and began collecting them in the 1960s. He eventually accumulated over 11,000 such stones. Retired from the University of Lima, Dr. Cabrera focused upon validating these finds within the scientific community. His credibility was strengthened by long-necked creatures displayed on pottery in the museum of Lima (lower right).
Scientists now believe dinosaurs held their massive tails off the ground while walking, because there are no drag marks on dinosaur trackways. The dinosaurs on the Ica Stones are depicted standing upright, rather than with legs splayed out in a lizard-like position. That, according to dinosaur experts, is “dead on” accurate. The stylizing of animals depicted on the Ica Stones matches those found in the Nascan Lines (monkey with curled tail, hummingbird, and stylized dinosaur). Many of the Ica Stones were been blackened so that the artistic etchings stand out. While some fraudulent Ica Stones have been manufactured in recent years to sell to tourists, a number of the dinosaur stones were found in tomb excavations by experienced archaeologists. Moreover microscopic analysis of the patina (covering the stone surface), copper traces and oxidation in the etching grooves unambiguously distinguishes between the authentic and the recently forged artifacts.
depict long-necked reptilian monsters with three or four toes, in some cases carrying a trophy head on their tail. These creatures bear a resemblance to those shown on the Ica stones, including the dermal frills. They have been dubbed “Strombus Monsters” because they are sometimes shown hiding in a Strombus shell. (Note the Moche pot on the left. Both this piece and the canchero are part of the Genesis Park collection – click to enlarge.)
The ancient Maya culture, which flourished around the 6th century, is famous for their excellent artwork. Bonampak is a Maya archaeological site in Mexico where there are a number of wonderful murals, including the remarkable one to the left. It shows the presentation of various war captives to the ruler, Chaan Muan, along with some trophy heads (perhaps brought for sacrificing). In addition to the human heads, the men are carrying an animal head and what looks a lot like a dinosaur head (enlarged in the picture to the right). Both the teeth and the large size make it doubtful that the Maya artist was depicting a lizard or snake.
But the authenticity of Julsrud’s find has been challenged because the huge collection included clear dinosaur figurines. In 1954 the Mexican government sent a team of archaeologists to investigate. In 1955 Charles Hapgood, Professor of Anthropology at the University of New Hampshire, conducted an elaborate investigation including radiometric dating and thermo-luminescence testing by the University of Pennsylvania. Subsequent investigations were conducted by the Mexican government. Thus Julsrud’s work has undergone considerable scrutiny. The Mexican
government even imprisoned men for digging up and selling these artifacts on the black market. Moreover, the dinosaurs are modeled in very agile, active poses, fitting well with the latest scientific evidence and lending credence to the artists having actually observed these creatures. Like the Ica Stones, some sauropod’s are depicted with a distinctive spinal frill. The remains of an ice-age horse (now extinct), the unfossilized skeleton of a woolly mammoth, and a number of ancient human skulls were found at the same location as the ceramic artifacts, validating the antiquity of the site (Hapgood, Charles, Mystery in Acambaro, 2000, p.82.). Dr. Ivan T. Sanderson was amazed in 1955 to find that there was an accurate representation of a Brachiosaurus, almost totally unknown to the general public at that time. Sanderson wrote, “This figurine is a very fine, jet-black, polished-looking ware. It is about a foot tall. The point is it is an absolutely perfect representation of Brachiosaurus, known only from East Africa and North America. There are a number of outlines of the skeletons in the standard literature but only one fleshed out reconstruction that I have ever seen. This is exactly like it.” (Hapgood, p. 85.)
To the right is an artifact from Tiwanaku, an important Pre-Columbian archaeological site in Bolivia. Tiwanaku is recognized by Andean scholars as one of the most important precursors to the Inca Empire. The sculptor depicted a dinosaur-like creature at least 800 years before European scientists discovered dinosaurs. The vase on left was also discovered in the Tiwanaku region. It depicts dueling dinosaurs and is believed to date from 500 – 1000 A.D. The style closely resembles the Nasca dinosaurian depictions (on the Ica Stones).
You can't prove time exists in deep space so forget any time for light to move! The speed of light we know is HERE on and near earth and YOU can't prove any different.
Speed requires time. If there is not time as we know it, then speed is not something that is able to be determined! If there is no time how much time does it take to....do anything!? Speed is a function of time.
There's no reason to believe time is the same in the entire physical universe. By the way did anyone asked you what you believed??
