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Job8

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So according to your logic salvation is earned by our repentance and faith and the Holy Spirit is the gift.
Nobody "earns" salvation so why did you introduce that term? Secondly, it is not "my logic" but God's truth. Logic has nothing to do with this. Salvation (Christ and the Holy Spirit) is received as a GIFT.

And your reference to Acts 8 does not contradict this at all. If you are referring to Simon the Sorcerer, his faith was "fake". If you are referring to the Ethiopian eunuch, when he confessed with his mouth the Lord Jesus (Acts 8:37) he was saved (Rom 10:9,10), and when he was saved, he received the gift of the Holy Ghost (Tit 3:4-7). Here's the simplicity of the Gospel: "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God".

GOSPEL PREACHED--->FAITH GENERATED--->CHRIST RECEIVED--->GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT--->NEW BIRTH
 
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BrokenWarrior

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What is the law of the Spirit? It is whatever the Holy Ghost puts in you to do. He writes in your heart what He wants you to do. That's why it says.

Jas_4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

Faith there means convictions in the greek.

So you are saying that Scripture is contradicting itself?

That's impossible.

If even just one passage is found false,who is to say what else might be false? How could we be sure The God of Isreal (Jesus) is even real,if indeed, Scripture is found to be false?

That can not be the case.

2 articles on your reference to James:

The Scriptures clearly teach that we are saved (justified) by faith in Christ and what He has done on the cross. This faith alone saves us. However, we cannot stop here without addressing what James says in James 2:24, "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone."

There is no contradiction. All you need to do is look at the context. James, chapter 2, has 26 verses: Verses 1-7 instruct us to not show favoritism. Verses 8-13 are comments on the Law. Verses 14-26 are about the relationship between faith and works.

James begins this section by using the example of someone who says he has faith but has no works, "What use is it, my brethren, if a man says he has faith, but he has no works? Can that faith save him?" (James 2:14). In other words, James is addressing the issue of a dead faith that is nothing more than a verbal pronouncement. It is empty of life and action. He begins with the negative and demonstrates what an empty faith is (verses 15-17, words without actions). Then he shows that that type of faith isn't much different from the faith of demons (verse 19). Finally, he gives examples of living faith that is words followed by actions. He writes of Abraham and Rahab as examples of people who demonstrated their faith by their deeds.

In brief, James is examining two kinds of faith: one that leads to godly works and one that does not. One is true, and the other is false. One is dead, and the other alive, hence, "Faith without works is dead," (James 2:20).

Also, notice that James actually quotes the same verse that Paul uses to support the teaching of justification by faith in Rom. 4:3. James 2:23 says, "and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, ‘and Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.'" If James was trying to teach a contradictory doctrine of faith and works than the other New Testament writers, then he would not have used Abraham as an example.

Conclusion
Justification is by faith. True faith is God's work (John 6:28-29), granted by God (John 1:29), and is concurrent with regeneration (2 Cor. 5:17), which God works in us by His will (John 1:13). This result of this justification and regeneration is that the sinner turns from his sin and towards doing good works. But it is not these works that earn our place with God nor sustain it. Jesus accomplished all that we need to be saved and stay saved on the cross. All that we need, we have in Jesus. All we need to do to be saved--to be justified--is to truly believe in what God has done for us in Jesus on the cross. This is why the Bible says that we are justified by faith (Rom. 5:1). This true belief with justification before God and regeneration in the new believer results in good works.

Original article:
https://carm.org/verses-showing-justification-by-faith


Question: "How can you believe in salvation by faith alone when the only occurrence of ‘faith alone’ in the Bible (James 2:24) says that salvation is not by faith alone?"

Answer:
It is entirely true that the one verse in the Bible that contains the exact phrase “faith alone” seems to argue against salvation by faith alone. James 2:24 reads, “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone” (ESV). However, rejecting the doctrine of salvation by faith alone based on this verse has two major problems. First, the context of James 2:24 is not arguing against the doctrine of salvation by faith alone. Second, the Bible does not need to contain the precise phrase “faith alone” in order to clearly teach salvation by faith alone.

James 2:14-26, as a whole, and especially verse 24, causes a lot of confusion. The passage definitely seems to cause serious problems for the “salvation by faith alone” concept. First, we need to clear up a misconception, namely, that James means the same thing by “justified” in James 2:24that Paul means in Romans 3:28. Paul is using the word justified to mean “declared righteous by God.” Paul is speaking of God’s legal declaration of us as righteous as Christ’s righteousness is applied to our account. James is using the word justified to mean “being demonstrated and proven.”

The 2011 NIV provides an excellent rendering of James 2:24: “You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone” (emphasis added). Similarly, the NLT translation of James 2:24reads, “So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone” (emphasis added). The entire James 2:14-26passage is about proving the genuineness of your faith by what you do. A genuine salvation experience by faith in Jesus Christ will inevitably result in good works (Ephesians 2:10). The works are the demonstration and proof of faith (James 2:18). A faith without works is useless (James 2:20) and dead (James 2:17); in other words, it is not true faith at all. Salvation is by faith alone, but that faith will never be alone.

While James 2:24 is the only verse which contains the precise phrase “faith alone,” there are many other verses that do, in fact, teach salvation by faith alone. Any verse that ascribes salvation to faith/belief, with no other requirement mentioned, is a declaration that salvation is by faith alone.John 3:16 declares that salvation is given to “whoever believes in Him.” Acts 16:31proclaims, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.” Ephesians 2:8 says, “For by grace you have been saved through faith.” See also Romans 3:28; 4:5; 5:1;Galatians 2:16; 3:24; Ephesians 1:13; andPhilippians 3:9. Many other scriptures could be referenced in addition to these.

In summary, James 2:24 does not argue against salvation by faith alone. Rather, it argues against a salvation that is alone, a salvation devoid of good works and obedience to God’s Word. James’s point is that we demonstrate our faith by what we do (James 2:18). Regardless of the absence of the precise phrase “faith alone,” the New Testament definitely teaches that salvation is the product of God’s grace in response to our faith. “Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? . . . On that of faith” (Romans 3:27). There is no other requirement.

Original article:
http://www.gotquestions.org/faith-alone.html

Be at peace,
-Your Brother In Christ
 
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BrokenWarrior

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GOSPEL PREACHED--->FAITH GENERATED--->CHRIST RECEIVED--->GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT--->NEW BIRTH

Amen Brother,doesn't get any more simple than that.

-Your Brother In Christ
 
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twin1954

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Nobody "earns" salvation so why did you introduce that term? Secondly, it is not "my logic" but God's truth. Logic has nothing to do with this. Salvation (Christ and the Holy Spirit) is received as a GIFT.

And your reference to Acts 8 does not contradict this at all. If you are referring to Simon the Sorcerer, his faith was "fake". If you are referring to the Ethiopian eunuch, when he confessed with his mouth the Lord Jesus (Acts 8:37) he was saved (Rom 10:9,10), and when he was saved, he received the gift of the Holy Ghost (Tit 3:4-7). Here's the simplicity of the Gospel: "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God".

GOSPEL PREACHED--->FAITH GENERATED--->CHRIST RECEIVED--->GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT--->NEW BIRTH
The problem with your syllogism is how faith is generated. You implicitly deny that man is dead and cannot generate faith unless he has life already. Ezekiel's dry bones is a picture of how salvation comes about. Lazarus coming from the grave is a picture of how a person is born from the dead. Neither the dry bone nor Lazarus did anything but both were given life before they could obey the call.

(Joh 3:36) He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John says that those who believe already have life. Hath is past tense meaning it has happened before belief.



1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:

This also is past tense. Life must come before faith or the dead do something that is impossible. If faith comes from man before life is the case then salvation is a work of man.
 
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twin1954

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No that is the way you take it a slave is sold but no money past through his hands he see no prophet in the deal. We were slaves to satan and now slaves to God, but we do benefit from the deal. We get a good master who loves us, our debt was paid to the Law.
We are willing slaves having been bought from death unto life by our benevolent Master. Your continuing to argue that we sell ourselves is nothing but stubborn pride.
 
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Job8

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You implicitly deny that man is dead and cannot generate faith unless he has life already
All sinners are spiritually dead, so there is no denial of this fact at all. And that is precisely why Christians are commanded to preach the Gospel to every creature (Mk 16:15) since it is the POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION (Rom 1:16). When the Gospel is preached, the "dead" sinner is convicted and convinced by the Holy Spirit to turn to Christ (Jn 16:7-11). Therefore the Gospel -- the Word of God -- is the "seed" which produces the New Birth (Jas 1:18; 1 Pet 1:23-25).

(Joh 3:36) He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John says that those who believe already have life. Hath is past tense meaning it has happened before belief.
You are mentally REVERSING what is stated above.
BELIEVE------->RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE
DO NOT BELIEVE-------->DO NOT RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE BUT JUDGMENT
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:
This also is past tense. Life must come before faith or the dead do something that is impossible.
Again you are reversing what is stated: BELIEVE---->BE BORN AGAIN
If faith comes from man before life is the case then salvation is a work of man
Already shown above that the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, and the Gospel generates faith. So why do you keep harping on "a work of man"? It is man who MUST BELIEVE. So the Holy Spirit takes the Gospel and burns it into a lost soul so that the sinner turns to Christ and Christ alone for salvation. Notice what it says in Acts 16:30,31: And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

How simple was this? Was this man born again? If so when? Was he baptized immediately thereafter? Is that the New Testament pattern?
 
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So you are saying that Scripture is contradicting itself?

That's impossible.

If even just one passage is found false,who is to say what else might be false? How could we be sure The God of Isreal (Jesus) is even real,if indeed, Scripture is found to be false?

That can not be the case.

2 articles on your reference to James:

The Scriptures clearly teach that we are saved (justified) by faith in Christ and what He has done on the cross. This faith alone saves us. However, we cannot stop here without addressing what James says in James 2:24, "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone."

There is no contradiction. All you need to do is look at the context. James, chapter 2, has 26 verses: Verses 1-7 instruct us to not show favoritism. Verses 8-13 are comments on the Law. Verses 14-26 are about the relationship between faith and works.

James begins this section by using the example of someone who says he has faith but has no works, "What use is it, my brethren, if a man says he has faith, but he has no works? Can that faith save him?" (James 2:14). In other words, James is addressing the issue of a dead faith that is nothing more than a verbal pronouncement. It is empty of life and action. He begins with the negative and demonstrates what an empty faith is (verses 15-17, words without actions). Then he shows that that type of faith isn't much different from the faith of demons (verse 19). Finally, he gives examples of living faith that is words followed by actions. He writes of Abraham and Rahab as examples of people who demonstrated their faith by their deeds.

In brief, James is examining two kinds of faith: one that leads to godly works and one that does not. One is true, and the other is false. One is dead, and the other alive, hence, "Faith without works is dead," (James 2:20).

Also, notice that James actually quotes the same verse that Paul uses to support the teaching of justification by faith in Rom. 4:3. James 2:23 says, "and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, ‘and Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.'" If James was trying to teach a contradictory doctrine of faith and works than the other New Testament writers, then he would not have used Abraham as an example.

Conclusion
Justification is by faith. True faith is God's work (John 6:28-29), granted by God (John 1:29), and is concurrent with regeneration (2 Cor. 5:17), which God works in us by His will (John 1:13). This result of this justification and regeneration is that the sinner turns from his sin and towards doing good works. But it is not these works that earn our place with God nor sustain it. Jesus accomplished all that we need to be saved and stay saved on the cross. All that we need, we have in Jesus. All we need to do to be saved--to be justified--is to truly believe in what God has done for us in Jesus on the cross. This is why the Bible says that we are justified by faith (Rom. 5:1). This true belief with justification before God and regeneration in the new believer results in good works.

Original article:
https://carm.org/verses-showing-justification-by-faith


Question: "How can you believe in salvation by faith alone when the only occurrence of ‘faith alone’ in the Bible (James 2:24) says that salvation is not by faith alone?"

Answer:
It is entirely true that the one verse in the Bible that contains the exact phrase “faith alone” seems to argue against salvation by faith alone. James 2:24 reads, “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone” (ESV). However, rejecting the doctrine of salvation by faith alone based on this verse has two major problems. First, the context of James 2:24 is not arguing against the doctrine of salvation by faith alone. Second, the Bible does not need to contain the precise phrase “faith alone” in order to clearly teach salvation by faith alone.

James 2:14-26, as a whole, and especially verse 24, causes a lot of confusion. The passage definitely seems to cause serious problems for the “salvation by faith alone” concept. First, we need to clear up a misconception, namely, that James means the same thing by “justified” in James 2:24that Paul means in Romans 3:28. Paul is using the word justified to mean “declared righteous by God.” Paul is speaking of God’s legal declaration of us as righteous as Christ’s righteousness is applied to our account. James is using the word justified to mean “being demonstrated and proven.”

The 2011 NIV provides an excellent rendering of James 2:24: “You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone” (emphasis added). Similarly, the NLT translation of James 2:24reads, “So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone” (emphasis added). The entire James 2:14-26passage is about proving the genuineness of your faith by what you do. A genuine salvation experience by faith in Jesus Christ will inevitably result in good works (Ephesians 2:10). The works are the demonstration and proof of faith (James 2:18). A faith without works is useless (James 2:20) and dead (James 2:17); in other words, it is not true faith at all. Salvation is by faith alone, but that faith will never be alone.

While James 2:24 is the only verse which contains the precise phrase “faith alone,” there are many other verses that do, in fact, teach salvation by faith alone. Any verse that ascribes salvation to faith/belief, with no other requirement mentioned, is a declaration that salvation is by faith alone.John 3:16 declares that salvation is given to “whoever believes in Him.” Acts 16:31proclaims, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.” Ephesians 2:8 says, “For by grace you have been saved through faith.” See also Romans 3:28; 4:5; 5:1;Galatians 2:16; 3:24; Ephesians 1:13; andPhilippians 3:9. Many other scriptures could be referenced in addition to these.

In summary, James 2:24 does not argue against salvation by faith alone. Rather, it argues against a salvation that is alone, a salvation devoid of good works and obedience to God’s Word. James’s point is that we demonstrate our faith by what we do (James 2:18). Regardless of the absence of the precise phrase “faith alone,” the New Testament definitely teaches that salvation is the product of God’s grace in response to our faith. “Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? . . . On that of faith” (Romans 3:27). There is no other requirement.

Original article:
http://www.gotquestions.org/faith-alone.html

Be at peace,
-Your Brother In Christ
Ok, im here reading what you put on here and I am trying to comprehend something here. Your saying that faith alone will not save you. But faith with works that accompany salvation which is works that God expects out of us otherwise we would be passed over and therefore of the tree that brought forth no fruit? Correct?

Or are you talking about works of the law which in no wise would help us unto salvation because we could then boast on how we made it to heaven.
 
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twin1954

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All sinners are spiritually dead, so there is no denial of this fact at all. And that is precisely why Christians are commanded to preach the Gospel to every creature (Mk 16:15) since it is the POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION (Rom 1:16). When the Gospel is preached, the "dead" sinner is convicted and convinced by the Holy Spirit to turn to Christ (Jn 16:7-11). Therefore the Gospel -- the Word of God -- is the "seed" which produces the New Birth (Jas 1:18; 1 Pet 1:23-25).


You are mentally REVERSING what is stated above.
BELIEVE------->RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE
DO NOT BELIEVE-------->DO NOT RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE BUT JUDGMENT

Again you are reversing what is stated: BELIEVE---->BE BORN AGAIN

Already shown above that the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, and the Gospel generates faith. So why do you keep harping on "a work of man"? It is man who MUST BELIEVE. So the Holy Spirit takes the Gospel and burns it into a lost soul so that the sinner turns to Christ and Christ alone for salvation. Notice what it says in Acts 16:30,31: And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

How simple was this? Was this man born again? If so when? Was he baptized immediately thereafter? Is that the New Testament pattern?
Sorry but I am not the one reversing the pattern. You say that the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation and I wholeheartedly agree. But then you destroy that power by making faith a work of man before he is given life. The power of the Gospel is that it speaks to a living soul not a dead one. The dead cannot hear or see and the Gospel can never speak to them until they have life. That is why you must implicitly deny that men are dead spiritually. You make man have something that he cannot have nor can do by putting faith before being born of God.

Why don't you go preach in the graveyard if your premise is correct?

The Gospel doesn't give life it reveals life.

As to the Scriptures I quoted, you ignore the plain statements and place your presupposition on them to adjust them to your way of thinking. If you want to actually look at them in the Greek I would be happy to educate you.

The reason I bring up works is because it is apparent that you do not see that what you suggest is a works salvation no matter how you slice it. You deny it because you do know that the Scriptures are clear that salvation is not of works but in reality you make it to be so. If man must first believe before he is given life then he must do a work that is impossible for him to do and salvation depends on him and not on God.

Think about all those in Hell. What did they do that the believer did not do. Or better yet what did the believer do that those in Hell didn't? Either your answer must be a work or you are blind. Sorry to be so blunt but I can think of no other way to convince you.
 
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twin1954

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Notice what it says in Acts 16:30,31: And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
How simple was this? Was this man born again? If so when? Was he baptized immediately thereafter? Is that the New Testament pattern?
The Gospel is simple but the power does not rest in how we present it or our eloquence but in the fact that the Spirit makes it to reach the heart of the chosen sinner. The jailor was already alive or he could not and would not ask the question. Roman jailors were notorious for their cruelty and lack of compassion. They were usually the older and no longer able to do battle without emotion. They were mean and nasty men who cared nothing for others. But this jailor, when he experienced that Paul and Silas, along with the other prisoners, had not escaped his heart, which was dead before, was moved and he asked the question. He saw the power of God and experienced the power of the Gospel. The fact is that if God had not given him life to believe he would have killed himself rather than suffer the fate of a Roman jailor who had lost his prisoners.

Once more, your conclusion is built on a premise that a man must do something that he is neither able or willing to do.
 
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BrokenWarrior

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Ok, im here reading what you put on here and I am trying to comprehend something here. Your saying that faith alone will not save you. But faith with works that accompany salvation which is works that God expects out of us otherwise we would be passed over and therefore of the tree that brought forth no fruit? Correct?

Or are you talking about works of the law which in no wise would help us unto salvation because we could then boast on how we made it to heaven.

No,what I,Scripture,and those articles are saying is. Salvation is through Faith,but real Faith will be accompanied by works.

Just because someone says,"I have faith" doesn't really mean they do.

As a Believer you are reborn,which,in turn,will result in said person doing good deeds of The Lord.

But it is the Faith that you acknowledge that saves.

Cheers :)
-Your Brother In Christ
 
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twin1954

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Ok, im here reading what you put on here and I am trying to comprehend something here. Your saying that faith alone will not save you. But faith with works that accompany salvation which is works that God expects out of us otherwise we would be passed over and therefore of the tree that brought forth no fruit? Correct?

Or are you talking about works of the law which in no wise would help us unto salvation because we could then boast on how we made it to heaven.
God expects nothing from us but it is He who works in us and for us the good works that He has ordained for us, Phil. 2:13; Eph. 2:10.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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Hello Brothers and Sisters, I have recently been noticing a spike in threads both here and in the non-denominational sub-forums,about Salvation and what one must do to attain it.


The amount of false doctrine and bad advice has been sickening to say the least...


So I decided to make a master thread to let everyone who is interested know the path to Salvation.


The path to Salvation is so simple... so much so,that,it's simplicity is what makes it hard to comprehend at first.


This is what you must do:


Believe


That's it...


You must Believe that Jesus is God,that He died and rose again on the third day,that you can never attain Salvation by any other means(especially through your own works), and that by Believing in Him; you will be saved from the punishment (you deserve) of your sins.

I do not believe that Jesus was lying to us in the synoptic gospels where he gave a radically different answer to the question, "Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?"

Matt. 19:16. And behold, one came up to him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?"
17. And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."
18. He said to him, "Which?" And Jesus said, "You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness,
19. Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
20. The young man said to him, "All these I have observed; what do I still lack?"
21. Jesus said to him, "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."

Nor I do not believe that Jesus was lying to us in the synoptic gospels where he gave a radically different answer to the question, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"

Luke 10:25. And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"
26. He said to him, "What is written in the law? How do you read?"
27. And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself."
28. And he said to him, "You have answered right; do this, and you will live."

James 2:19. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder.


(All quotations from Scripture are from the RSV, Second Edition)
 
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PrincetonGuy

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But Scripture says to Repent!


Your right,it does.


The Greek word for Repent being used is "Metanoia",which means to "Change ones mind".


So when Scripture says to "Repent and Believe",it's saying: "Change your mind about God and Believe!"


Two different sides to the same coin friends.



No! The Greek verb μετανοέω (metanoeō), when used in the New Testament, ALWAYS means “Repent!” Hint: That is why it is translated as “repent” rather than “change your mind.”

By the way, the Greek word μετάνοια (metanoia) is a noun—not a verb! It means, “repentance!”
 
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PrincetonGuy

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But Scripture implies we can lose Salvation doesn't it?

The Bible not only implies that a genuine believer in Christ can lose his salvation—it explicitly teaches that a genuine believer in Christ can lose his salvation. Indeed, the Bible so clearly and explicitly teaches that a genuine believer in Christ can lose his salvation that that was the universal teaching of the Church up to the Reformation, and since the Reformation has continued to be, by far, the predominate view of the Church. However, we do find in most of our Baptist churches (but not all of them!) any one of many different and contradictory teachings that fall under the umbrella of ‘eternal security’—including ‘the preservation of the saints,’ ‘the perseverance of the saints,’ various forms of ‘millennial exclusionism,’ etc., etc.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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So you are saying that Scripture is contradicting itself?


That's impossible.


If even just one passage is found false,who is to say what else might be false? How could we be sure The God of Isreal (Jesus) is even real,if indeed, Scripture is found to be false?


That can not be the case.


2 articles on your reference to James:

Neither of these two articles express the understanding of the Epistle of James that is currently held by New Testament scholars publishing the results of research on that epistle. That understanding is summarized in the following commentaries on the Greek text of James:

Blomberg, Craig L. and Mariam J. Kamell - Z.E.C. 280 pages, 2008
Davids, Peter H. - N.I.G.T.C. 226 pages, 1982
Laws, Sophie - H.N.T.C. 273 pages, 1980
Martin, Ralph P. - W.B.C. 240 pages, 1988 (12/16/13)
McCartney, Dan G. - B.E.C. 335 pages, 2009
Moo, Douglas J. - Pillar New Testament Commentary 271 pages, 2000
 
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BrokenWarrior

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Neither of these two articles express the understanding of the Epistle of James that is currently held by New Testament scholars publishing the results of research on that epistle. That understanding is summarized in the following commentaries on the Greek text of James:

Blomberg, Craig L. and Mariam J. Kamell - Z.E.C. 280 pages, 2008
Davids, Peter H. - N.I.G.T.C. 226 pages, 1982
Laws, Sophie - H.N.T.C. 273 pages, 1980
Martin, Ralph P. - W.B.C. 240 pages, 1988 (12/16/13)
McCartney, Dan G. - B.E.C. 335 pages, 2009
Moo, Douglas J. - Pillar New Testament Commentary 271 pages, 2000

It is a shame my friend,that this is how you have interpreted Scripture.

I for one, believe Scripture teaches the exact opposite to all you posted. Scripture states blatantly that Salvation is by Grace through Faith.

"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by Faith without the deeds of the Law" -Romans 3:28

To say otherwise is foolish.

Yes the Greek noun used is always translated to "Repent" But the reason that that exact Greek noun is used is to imply that the meaning behind "repent" involves ones mind and hearts attitude towards God.

The Bible also explains that those who truly are saved will remain so. That those who choose to reject Salvation,were never truly saved to begin with.

Those articles don't hold the view of Modern NT scholars? Yea,I bet. Sorry,but I'll take Scriptures view of things over the word of men and women I have not met,and therefore can not discern their state of Salvation.

Like I said... this stuff is so simple,and so overthought by many,that it is the sheer simplicity behind it all that confuses people.

Seek Truth,
Your Brother In Christ
 
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PrincetonGuy

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It is a shame my friend, that this is how you have interpreted Scripture.

If that is the case, it is a shame that the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers interpreted the Scriptures in the manner that they did on the matter of salvation—for my interpretation is the same as theirs.

I for one, believe Scripture teaches the exact opposite to all you posted. Scripture states blatantly that Salvation is by Grace through Faith.

Some of the Scriptures do explicitly teach that salvation is by grace through faith, but such a doctrine is not so much as hinted at in the synoptic gospels where Jesus taught that one must do good in order to inherit eternal life. In the fourth gospel, Jesus teaches that being saved and continuing to be saved is conditional upon keeping His commandments (John 15:10). James, drawing the logical conclusion from what he had written in 2:14-23, writes in v. 24, “You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.” He looked at the very same example of Abraham and came to the opposite conclusion that Paul did. Or did he? No, Paul and James were writing about two very different kinds of works. Paul was writing of works of the Law. Indeed, he uses the expression “works of the Law” eight times in six verses! James, on the other hand, NEVER used that expression or even so much as alluded to the concept. James wrote instead of keeping the commandments of Christ that result in good works, as did John in his gospel. James wrote that we are justified by performing those good works; Paul wrote that those “good works” are a fruit of one’s salvation. Indeed, he used the expression “good works” 28 times in 13 verses, and he NEVER wrote that “good works” were not necessary for salvation. If they are not necessary, Paul never said so—and neither did any other contributor to the Bible. I am NOT saying that doing good works is necessary for salvation; I am saying that that doctrine that they are not necessary is not taught anywhere in the Bible.

The Bible also explains that those who truly are saved will remain so. That those who choose to reject Salvation,were never truly saved to begin with.

If the Bible explains such a thing, why didn’t anyone see it in the Bible until the 16th century when very much of what the early Fathers of the Church believed and taught was trashed, and a whole knew system of theology was invented as a consequence of the unbiblical premise that God is absolutely sovereign and that man, therefore, lacks a free will—a doctrine that is absolutely refuted throughout the Old Testament and other ancient Jewish writings, as is thoroughly refuted throughout the New Testament and other ancient Christian writings. Let us never forget that it was the early Fathers of the church that God chose to use to formalize the doctrine of the Trinity, and to establish the New Testament Canon—based upon their understanding of true Christian doctrine.

Those articles don't hold the view of Modern NT scholars? Yea,I bet. Sorry,but I'll take Scriptures view of things over the word of men and women I have not met, and therefore can not discern their state of Salvation.

Have you ever met the men who wrote the articles that you quoted from? Do you know anything at all about them? The scholars whom I referenced are known and respected throughout the world for their contribution to our knowledge of the Greek text of the Epistle of James—and they cite hundreds of other such scholars and their research.
 
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BrokenWarrior

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If that is the case, it is a shame that the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers interpreted the Scriptures in the manner that they did on the matter of salvation—for my interpretation is the same as theirs.



Some of the Scriptures do explicitly teach that salvation is by grace through faith, but such a doctrine is not so much as hinted at in the synoptic gospels where Jesus taught that one must do good in order to inherit eternal life. In the fourth gospel, Jesus teaches that being saved and continuing to be saved is conditional upon keeping His commandments (John 15:10). James, drawing the logical conclusion from what he had written in 2:14-23, writes in v. 24, “You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.” He looked at the very same example of Abraham and came to the opposite conclusion that Paul did. Or did he? No, Paul and James were writing about two very different kinds of works. Paul was writing of works of the Law. Indeed, he uses the expression “works of the Law” eight times in six verses! James, on the other hand, NEVER used that expression or even so much as alluded to the concept. James wrote instead of keeping the commandments of Christ that result in good works, as did John in his gospel. James wrote that we are justified by performing those good works; Paul wrote that those “good works” are a fruit of one’s salvation. Indeed, he used the expression “good works” 28 times in 13 verses, and he NEVER wrote that “good works” were not necessary for salvation. If they are not necessary, Paul never said so—and neither did any other contributor to the Bible. I am NOT saying that doing good works is necessary for salvation; I am saying that that doctrine that they are not necessary is not taught anywhere in the Bible.



If the Bible explains such a thing, why didn’t anyone see it in the Bible until the 16th century when very much of what the early Fathers of the Church believed and taught was trashed, and a whole knew system of theology was invented as a consequence of the unbiblical premise that God is absolutely sovereign and that man, therefore, lacks a free will—a doctrine that is absolutely refuted throughout the Old Testament and other ancient Jewish writings, as is thoroughly refuted throughout the New Testament and other ancient Christian writings. Let us never forget that it was the early Fathers of the church that God chose to use to formalize the doctrine of the Trinity, and to establish the New Testament Canon—based upon their understanding of true Christian doctrine.



Have you ever met the men who wrote the articles that you quoted from? Do you know anything at all about them? The scholars whom I referenced are known and respected throughout the world for their contribution to our knowledge of the Greek text of the Epistle of James—and they cite hundreds of other such scholars and their research.

Actually, Salvation by Grace through Faith is taught throughout the entire bible.

Romans 3:28
John 3:16
Romans 3:22
Romans 4:3-5
Romans 4:16
Romans 5:1
Romans 9:33
Romans 10:4
Galations 2:16
Galations 3:5-6
Ephesians 1:13
Ephesians 2:8
Philippians 3:9
Acts 16:31

Those are just a handful of Passages found in Scripture that teach that Salvation is obtained exclusively by Grace through Faith.

That's what I was trying to point out to the other fellow... Scripture can NOT under ANY circumstances contradict itself. Any contradiction calls the very essence of the Bible into question. Making the very existence of The God of Isreal (Jesus) very uncertain.

One falsehood utterly destroys any and all doctrines,dogmas,and teachings found in Scripture.

Salvation by Grace through Faith is the nucleus by which all other doctrine and teachings are based.

Once you embrace your belief in God and use Scripture to compare Scripture,you find that these teachings hold up to themselves. They agree with eachother and support each other.

God wrote it,I merely teach it :)

God bless!
-Your Brother In Christ
 
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PrincetonGuy

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Actually, Salvation by Grace through Faith is taught throughout the entire bible.
Your statement is not true! The doctrine of Salvation by Grace through Faith is not so much as hinted at in any of the 39 books of the Old Testament or in the first three gospels. Indeed, the subject of grace is not mentioned even once in the first three gospels. Furthermore, the word ‘grace’ is not used, except for part of the salutation, in 2 peter, 1, 2, or 3 John, or in Revelation

Moreover, regarding your citations of Scripture:

Romans 3:28 speaks of justification but not salvation!
John 3:16 says absolutely nothing about grace!
Romans 3:22 says absolutely nothing about grace!
Romans 4:3-5 says absolutely nothing about grace!
Romans 4:16 does speak of both faith and grace, and speaks of justification but not salvation!
Romans 5:1 says absolutely nothing about grace and speaks of justification but not salvation!
Romans 9:33 says absolutely nothing about grace, and speaks of justification but not salvation!
Romans 10:4 says absolutely nothing about grace, and speaks of justification but not salvation!
Galatians 2:16 says absolutely nothing about grace, and speaks of justification but not salvation!
Galatians 3:5-6 says absolutely nothing about grace, and speaks of justification but not salvation!
Ephesians 1:13 says absolutely nothing about grace!
Ephesians 2:8 is the ONLY verse in the entire Bible that teaches Salvation by Grace through Faith!
Philippians 3:9 says absolutely nothing about grace, and speaks of justification but not salvation!
Acts 16:31 says absolutely nothing about grace!

Why does the doctrine of Salvation by Grace through Faith appear only once in the Bible, and in Ephesians 2:8? It occurs in Ephesians 2:8 because Paul is addressing there Gentile believers who had not been circumcised! His point in chapter 2 of Ephesians is that these Gentile Christians are no longer strangers and sojourners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God—even though they had not been circumcised! How was this possible? It was possible by grace through faith—grace being the dynamic action of God by and through which He saves us from sin and its consequences through faith, and empowers us to serve Him. An integral part of that faith is our volitional obedience to Christ as we yield to the power of the Holy Spirit working in our lives.

Salvation by Grace through Faith is the nucleus by which all other doctrine and teachings are based.

Not true!
 
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