Pope Francis: Act charitably, take in immigrants—or give up tax-free status

[tulc]

So the Pope said this:
Pope Francis to churches: Act charitably, take in immigrants—or give up tax-free status

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/...take-in-immigrants-or-give-up-tax-free-status

On the eve of a trip to the United States, Pope Francis has called himself a “son of immigrants” and confirmed the point by issuing a blunt warning to any religious orders in Europe that spurn his recent call to open their doors to refugees because they want to make money off their properties instead.

Go ahead, the pope said, but be ready to pay taxes just like everybody else.

“Some religious orders say ‘No, now that the convent is empty we are going to make a hotel and we can have guests, and support ourselves that way, or make money,’” the pontiff said.

“Well, if that is what you want to do, then pay taxes! A religious school is tax-exempt because it is religious, but if it is functioning as a hotel, then it should pay taxes just like its neighbor. Otherwise it is not fair business.”

tulc(likes this Pope)

 

[TerranceL]

Him first. Open up Vatican City to immigrants.

http://www.vdare.com/posts/pope-say...-but-doesnt-mention-vatican-city-still-closed

Today, Vatican City operates something like a miniature Monaco. Totally surrounded by Rome, the city-state is in no way self-sustaining. Yet it does have a large, unionized workforce, a highly professional diplomatic corps, and a fairly good cash flow (due to support from Catholic parishes).

What it does not have is any immigrants. Nor refugees. None. I tried to get the Holy See’s official point-of-view on this question by contacting its official representative in the U.S., Archbishop Agostino Cacciavillan, the papal nuncio. His assistant insisted she could answer no questions, and all official questions must be addressed to the archbishop himself in writing. I faxed a few simple questions over in April but received no reply.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Him first. Open up Vatican City to immigrants.

http://www.vdare.com/posts/pope-say...-but-doesnt-mention-vatican-city-still-closed

Yes I get it.. Vatican City is the size of the freaking postage stamp compared to other countries. Heck I think America has cities bigger than that country. Maybe the pope should open his borders and take in like 50-100?[ not sure how much the city could handle considering its size] The gesture might push other countries to do the same, because if some place as small as Vatican City takes in people the surely the surrounding nations could.

 

[classicalhero]

The problem is that you don't allow your enemy to enter your country.

 

[Billnew]

Yes I get it.. Vatican City is the size of the freaking postage stamp compared to other countries. Heck I think America has cities bigger than that country. Maybe the pope should open his borders and take in like 50-100?[ not sure how much the city could handle considering its size] The gesture might push other countries to do the same, because if some place as small as Vatican City takes in people the surely the surrounding nations could.

The number doesn't matter, he should just take in as many as they can fit. If he wants a charitable church, he needs to show a charitable church.

You take in those in need, but you ensure you are safe first. You don't want to offer charity to a Trojan horse.
Europe gets to spread their wings and fly with this one.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

The number doesn't matter, he should just take in as many as they can fit. If he wants a charitable church, he needs to show a charitable church.

You take in those in need, but you ensure you are safe first. You don't want to offer charity to a Trojan horse.
Europe gets to spread their wings and fly with this one.

yeah i just through out a random arbitrary number. I was trying to imply they should take as many as they can. I am not sure how big that city is to begin with. The pope needs to practice what he preaches if he wants people in the western world to listen, because actions speak louder than words for most of the western world.

 

[Tallguy88]

The number doesn't matter, he should just take in as many as they can fit. If he wants a charitable church, he needs to show a charitable church.

You take in those in need, but you ensure you are safe first. You don't want to offer charity to a Trojan horse.
Europe gets to spread their wings and fly with this one.

The Vatican is taking in and housing refugee families.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

The Vatican is taking in and housing refugee families.

really? then I'll eat my hat because my argument is null and void. lol

 

[seekingsolace]

The problem is that you don't allow your enemy to enter your country.

Satans already here

really? then I'll eat my hat because my argument is null and void. lol

I hope it's not a big hat.

 

[SuperCloud]

Yes I get it.. Vatican City is the size of the freaking postage stamp compared to other countries. Heck I think America has cities bigger than that country.

Vatican City can fit inside Central Park in New York City.

I didn't read most the article. However, why is the news reporting on the Popes remarks about refugees, given the fact for decades the Vatican has had an office that has lobbied governments across the world on behalf of immigrants and refugees, yet the news ignored this office?

An interesting office as well as on a daily basis newspapers from around the world--in different languages--are brought in and read in that office by bilingual and multilingual people. It's a mini UN.

In terms of spirit I have no problem with the Pope's remarks and I agree with him.

In terms of finance and economics (no matter if one wish $2 + $2 to = $2,000,000 it won't, sorry) I have no idea what the Pope is talking about per se. I don't. As a person with some college education who has taken classes in economics and finance and banking I don't know what he means.

Could be the Pope has more information than I do about the finances of these organization. Could be. Or it could be he kind of sucks--or would suck--as a Chief Financial Officer (CFO).

Vatican City itself draws in money, revenue from tourists. Unlike the complex (yeah, complex as in an entire block that was made up of church, convent, school, and two playgrounds) I went to Catholic grade school at which was sold off bit by bit. The only thing that remained in Catholic hands was the parish church--which was financially taken care of by another Catholic parish--and finally of recently that was sold off too. Now it has a Baptist name hanging over it. MPS had bought the school. But even MPS started having financial troubles and started closing a bunch of schools down--and that was one of them. Not sure what is going on with the former convent. Back in the 1990s I think it was the city that bought it and then used it as a live-in school for troubled girls.

The Pope could have suggested Americans and Europeans on welfare take in refugees or give up their welfare benefits. Why not suggest that? As most these religious orders aren't paid by the Vatican but have to be as self sustaining as say... the Obama family.

You can think of owning a building (assuming you own it and don't lease it) as being akin to owning a house. What do you do when your income dries up? And this is a real life situation for some Americans. They rent out their homes or some have now even begun to rent them out as hotel-condos. (A month or so ago I was looking at some of them being advertised online in Vegas--because I was thinking of a potential group meet up with old friends a year or two down the line, with everyone converging in Vegas.)

When you have a mortgage and bills to pay and your own food you need to purchase to live, but you only have $50 in your pocket, it's easy to say, "Take in a refugee family of 5 with that $50 and don't worry your debtors are cool they won't foreclose on you."

 

[Tallguy88]

Keep in mind, that the Pope's remarks were directed towards churches in Europe, not the USA. In some parts of Europe (I know Germany for sure) the churches get tax money. There is literally a church tax, and if I tell the Government that I'm Catholic, they will give my church taxes to the Catholic church. Same for Protestant tax money going to one of the state sanctioned protestant churches.

So they aren't as reliant on people actually giving to the Church as USA churches.

 

[SuperCloud]

Keep in mind, that the Pope's remarks were directed towards churches in Europe, not the USA. In some parts of Europe (I know Germany for sure) the churches get tax money. There is literally a church tax, and if I tell the Government that I'm Catholic, they will give my church taxes to the Catholic church. Same for Protestant tax money going to one of the state sanctioned protestant churches.

So they aren't as reliant on people actually giving to the Church as USA churches.

That would put it in a different context.

The only one I was aware of being paid by the government was the Catholic Church in Germany.

But last time I read--some years ago--the German Catholic Church alone spends more money on Latin America than the United States Government/Nations budget for world development.

So, that's not regarded as newsworthy by the news?

The German Catholic Church--so far as I know--is pretty liberal too. I believe they helped finance Liberation theology and the communist rebels in Latin America decades ago.

Although, there might be a lot of financial/spiritual corruption related to greed and money going on within the various Catholic religious orders throughout Europe. It amazes me some of the large and extravagant homes some of the European Bishops wanted to or built for themselves. And I'm not even against priests or Bishops (if they have not vowed poverty) living materially "well" or "rich." Have a large luxury home or condo, why not, you sacrificed marriage, kids, grandkids, earlier riches, a playboy life etc.

But do you REALLY need to get something the size of a castle? Come on. I'm kind of thinking at that point you're probably either really prosperity-doctrine Protestant or atheist at that point, because you'll seem to have no fear of eternal damnation for your soul.

 

[SuperCloud]

Or to put it another way...

Why does the US news hate Putin but Russian news love Putin?

And why did the US news ignore the German Church tossing out more cash to one region than the US Government passed out to the entire globe, or ignore years of the Vatican lobbying for immigrants, but all of a sudden find it "news" to report on every single thing the Pope says if they can tweak out of his words an attack on the Catholic Church?



I'm suggesting whoever controls the media becomes the puppet master of the people. And if the US media loves the Pope that might indicate whoever they associate with planted the Pope in power within the Church.

I'm even getting tired of seeing the Pope on yahoo news articles everyday. Prior to him becoming Pope the only ones the puppet masters in pure propaganda fashion (and it is propaganda, as an art form when you constantly spam the same messages in media and news) kept making as yahoo daily news was the homosexuals LGBTQ Movement. Now it's them and the Pope. Everyday. I feel like I'm living in Napoleon's France or Hitler's Germany.

 

[tulc]

Him first. Open up Vatican City to immigrants.

http://www.vdare.com/posts/pope-say...-but-doesnt-mention-vatican-city-still-closed

They've started doing so:
http://time.com/4039997/vatican-syrian-refugees/

The Vatican has taken in a family who fled Damascus, just days after Pope Francis urged Catholic parishes across the world to assist refugees.

oops! I guess now it's 2 families:

Francis said the Vatican would itself be extending help to two families who will be taken in by Vatican parishes.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...alls-on-catholics-to-take-in-refugee-families
tulc(in case anyone was curious)

 

[Fireinfolding]

Arent many of the refugees muslims?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Arent many of the refugees muslims?

I asked the above because they would be of another doctrine correct?

And it says,

2 John 1:10-11
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine,
receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

But on the otherhand (as in the verse prior, see verse 9) it says he that abideth not in the doctrine of Christ has not God but he that abideth in the doctrine of Christ (has both the Father and the Son)

Whereas Jesus said,

Mark 9:41
For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name,
because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

So the one becomes a partaker of the evil deeds in relation to the one with another doctrine (simply by receiving such into their house or wishing them godspeed). The other (which would be abiding in the doctrine of Christ) who has God the Father by Jesus Christ shall not lose his reward over a glass of water simply because it was given in the understanding that such a one belongs to Jesus Christ. And given that he that does not have not the Spirit of Christ is none of his, and what you have done to the least of these he calls "my brethren" (you have done unto me) as they are one (in that same Spirit) that stands with Hebrews 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren .

The others are not brethren, but of another doctrine. So if they be muslims and of another doctrine wouldnt this pope be asking them to recieve unto themselves (and into their houses) someone bringing another doctrine (thus making themselves a partaker of their evil deeds) in that particular doing?

 

[tulc]

I asked the above because they would be of another doctrine correct?

And it says,

2 John 1:10-11
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine,
receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

But on the otherhand (as in the verse prior, see verse 9) it says he that abideth not in the doctrine of Christ has not God but he that abideth in the doctrine of Christ (has both the Father and the Son)

Whereas Jesus said,

Mark 9:41
For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name,
because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

So the one becomes a partaker of the evil deeds in relation to the one with another doctrine (simply by receiving such into their house or wishing them godspeed). The other (which would be abiding in the doctrine of Christ) who has God the Father by Jesus Christ shall not lose his reward over a glass of water simply because it was given in the understanding that such a one belongs to Jesus Christ. And given that he that does not have not the Spirit of Christ is none of his, and what you have done to the least of these he calls "my brethren" (you have done unto me) as they are one (in that same Spirit) that stands with Hebrews 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren .

The others are not brethren, but of another doctrine. So if they be muslims and of another doctrine wouldnt this pope be asking them to recieve unto themselves (and into their houses) someone bringing another doctrine (thus making themselves a partaker of their evil deeds) in that particular doing?

Sure, if this was the sum total of what the Bible said was the above, that might be true, but it isn't, so Pope Francis must be looking at what the other 72 books in their bible says about helping those in need.
tulc(is drinking some mighty fine coffee right now)

 

[Fireinfolding]

Sure, if this was the sum total of what the Bible said was the above, that might be true, but it isn't, so Pope Francis must be looking at what the other 72 books in their bible says about helping those in need.
tulc(is drinking some mighty fine coffee right now)

I was asking about what I posted more specifically, not anything other, I think we all know there is a larger bible then what I posted (and what you rarely dive into) but in accord with what I posted and what he encourages in your OP is what I asked after.

Unless you feel I should take it by faith (your own faith in the man) concerning his encouragement in a direction (as it relates to muslims specifically) which seems contrary to the apostles instructions (who I have a tad more faith in then I do him). We already know Jesus said if your enemy thirst or hungry give him drink or feed him, but I dont see how that is the same as bringing someone of another doctrine into your house, especially when you see some of the videos uploaded many of which are not even coming in peace.

(Believes tulc is really drinking some nasty koolaid)

 

[tulc]

I was asking about what I posted more specifically, not anything other, I think we all know there is a larger bible then what I posted (and what you rarely dive into) but in accord with what I posted and what he encourages in your OP is what I asked after.

Two points: 1) you can't just take one part of the Bible and apply it to every situation, for instance from what you seem to be asking wouldn't that mean Corrie ten Boom and all those Christians who hid Jews from the Nazi's in their homes be guilty of what you seem to asking? They had a different beliefs from what the Christians had. and 2) you really have no idea how much or how little I dive into the Bible, no biggie though I'll just assume you didn't mean it to be as bad as it sounded.

Unless you feel I should take it by faith (your own faith in the man) concerning his encouragement in a direction (as it relates to muslims specifically) which seems contrary to the apostles instructions (who I have a tad more faith in then I do him).

You don't see a contradiction in this part of your post with this part?

We already know Jesus said if your enemy thirst or hungry give him drink or feed him, but I dont see how that is the same as bringing someone of another doctrine into your house

that's fine, you don't want to take people in? Then you shouldn't. You should just help where you feel you can.

especially when you see some of the videos uploaded many of which are not even coming in peace.

Do what you feel you can, just try not to judge those who can do what you wont.

(Believes tulc is really drinking some nasty koolaid)

tulc(hmmm...it's hot, black and made from coffee beans...nope, definitely some fine coffee!)

 

[Fireinfolding]

Hungarian Bishop says pope is wrong

Could he have a point?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ba72e6-558a-11e5-9f54-1ea23f6e02f3_story.html