Did the Catholic Church changed the Sabbath to Sunday?

[Meowzltov]

I go to a UMJC synagogue...

I'm glad. I hope you familiarize yourself with its doctrines. For example, the stuff up on the Rabbinical Council's website is exemplary. You'll find their article on Conversion to Judaism which dismisses the need for Gentiles to observe Torah as Jews do, or even the need for Gentiles to leave the Christian churches and join MJ synagogues. It introduces the concept of IDENTITY CONFUSION.

 

[BukiRob]

I'm glad. I hope you familiarize yourself with its doctrines. For example, the stuff up on the Rabbinical Council's website is exemplary. You'll find their article on Conversion to Judaism which dismisses the need for Gentiles to observe Torah as Jews do, or even the need for Gentiles to leave the Christian churches and join MJ synagogues. It introduces the concept of IDENTITY CONFUSION.

LOL I've been involved for several years. Our Rabbi is a past president of the UMJC. I'm more than passingly familiar with what they believe.

You are sincerely confused. I find it arrogant for one who calls themselves a catholic to be trying to lecture someone who is a messianic. Messianic JUDAISM views itself as a sect of Judaism just like it did during the apostolic age, you know the church as it is seen the book of Acts.

James directed the Gentile believers to attend synagogue for the express purpose of hearing the Torah. Acts 15:20 For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since [k]he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

The implication is crystal clear. The gentile believers were to observe Sabbath, go to their local synagogue to hear the Torah read and then begin to implement it in their daily life.

I have absolutely 0 confusion as to who I am... the only one confused apparently is you.

 

[Meowzltov]

LOL I've been involved for several years. Our Rabbi is a past president of the UMJC. I'm more than passingly familiar with what they believe.

UMJC is not a "One Law" denomination. UMJC teaches that the place for most Christian believers to be are the churches. I used to know Stuart Dauermann, who is on the Rabbinical Council. I'm quite familiar with your denomination, and have a real respect for it. I'm very happy that you are in such a good place.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I see, so to you, what G-d has to say on the matter doesn't really matter?

You see, G-d is explicitly clear about what day is the Sabbath. YOU and I do not get to choose. Scripture states over and over over... that the Sabbath is the 7th day.

Surely, if the day were "optional" concerning what day to observe Messiah would have done so. After all, he was constantly riling the scribes and pharisee's because he did things contrary to their tradition. Yet in scripture we see Yeshua explicitly observed Sabbath on the Sabbath day Which is Friday at sunset until Saturday at Sunset.

Additionally, there is little to no correlation between Sabbath and what day you worship on. No where in scripture are you commanded to worship on that day. In fact what we see in Acts is that the Apostles were "DAILY" going to the temple....

Sabbath is from sunset on day six (which starts the 7th day) to the following sunset. Nothing prevents you from worshiping on Sunday but Sabbath is not, was not and NEVER WILL BE Sunday

Well, God did not command you or anyone else to go to church on Saturday. He did, however, command specific actions to take place for His covenant people, the Jews, on Saturday. I am not Jewish and am not part of that covenant nor, do I suspect, are you. If you are, you can compare notes with Open Heart on the matter.

 

[Albion]

I go to a UMJC synagogue...

Ah, UMJC. I took a few courses there. Nice campus but lousy football team.

 

[BukiRob]

Well, God did not command you or anyone else to go to church on Saturday. He did, however, command specific actions to take place for His covenant people, the Jews, on Saturday. I am not Jewish and am not part of that covenant nor, do I suspect, are you. If you are, you can compare notes with Open Heart on the matter.

There is absolutely 0 scriptural evidence for the abandonment of Sabbath... Sabbath was and is a part of creation...

 

[Cribstyl]

There is absolutely 0 scriptural evidence for the abandonment of Sabbath... Sabbath was and is a part of creation...

What Paul taught about days taken to honor God in Rom 14 and some other places should take precedence over commentary.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

 

[Meowzltov]

Ah, UMJC. I took a few courses there. Nice campus but lousy football team.

Really!!! I sense a story here. What is an Anglican dude doing taking courses at a Messianic seminary?

 

[BobRyan]

There is absolutely 0 scriptural evidence for the abandonment of Sabbath... Sabbath was and is a part of creation...

Amen!

 

[BobRyan]

What Paul taught about days taken to honor God in Rom 14 and some other places should take precedence over commentary.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

The weekly Sabbath never mentioned in Romans 14.

One man "regards one day ABOVE the other while another Regards them ALL" - He who REGARDs the day in Romm 14 - observes it.

No one in Rom 14 "Regards no day".

The reference to days in Rom 14 - is to the Bible-approved annual holy days - of Lev 23.

 

[BukiRob]

What Paul taught about days taken to honor God in Rom 14 and some other places should take precedence over commentary.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

And Romans 14 in no way, shape or form even begins to set aside Sabbath. In your distorted view you completely ignore that Paul, Barnabas and all of the apostles until the day they died observed the Sabbath and feast days. As did almost the entire body in Asia minor...

 

[Cribstyl]

And Romans 14 in no way, shape or form even begins to set aside Sabbath. In your distorted view you completely ignore that Paul, Barnabas and all of the apostles until the day they died observed the Sabbath and feast days. As did almost the entire body in Asia minor...

Speaking about distorted view.... my only words in this thread thus far is...... What Paul taught about days taken to honor God in Rom 14 and some other places should take precedence over commentary.
Lets not get testy and act like I've said anything against Sabbath or any day a man choses to worship. You believe Sabbath is your day...good luck with that. Your claims about Paul and the apostles has no scriptural directives.

 

[BobRyan]

And Romans 14 in no way, shape or form even begins to set aside Sabbath. In your distorted view you completely ignore that Paul, Barnabas and all of the apostles until the day they died observed the Sabbath and feast days. As did almost the entire body in Asia minor...

Important details

 

[Meowzltov]

And Romans 14 in no way, shape or form even begins to set aside Sabbath. In your distorted view you completely ignore that Paul, Barnabas and all of the apostles until the day they died observed the Sabbath and feast days. As did almost the entire body in Asia minor...

Gentiles did not observe the Shabbat.

 

[sahjimira]

Nobody has the right to change the bible, to add anything or take away anything

Another document that has been seen in the 20th century --

[FONT=&quot]================================================== from[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]from THE ROMAN CHURCH'S ADMISSION OF CHANGING THE SABBATH[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot] Thomaston, Georgia[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] May 22, 1934[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] Pop Pius XI[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Rome, Italy[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] Dear Sir;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Is the accusation true, that Protestants accuse you of? They say you[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] changed the Seventh Day Sabbath to the, so-called, Christian Sunday:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Identical with the First Day of the week. If so, when did you make the[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] change, and by what authority?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] Yours very truly,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] J. L. Day


[FONT=&quot]====================================[/FONT]
[/FONT]

The Reply:
​

THE CATHOLIC EXTENSION MAGAZINE
180 Wabash Ave., Chicago, Illinois
(Under the Blessing of Pop Pius XI)
​

[FONT=&quot] Dear sir:[/FONT]
​

[FONT=&quot] Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]> (1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]> and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] them in the eyes of every thinking man.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] (2) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church instituted by Christ, to teach[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] and guide men through life, has the right to change the Ceremonial laws of[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to the Sunday.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] We frankly say, "yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] made many other laws, for instance, the Friday Abstinence, the unmarried[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] marriages, and a thousand other laws."[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] (3) We also say that of all Protestants, the Seventh-day Adventists are[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] the only group that reason correctly and are consistent with their[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] teachings. It is always somewhat laughable to see the Protestant Churches,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] in pulpit and legislature, demand the observance of Sunday of which there[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] is nothing in the Bible.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] With best wishes,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Peter R. Tramer, Editor[/FONT]

Another document that has been seen in the 20th century --

[FONT=&quot]================================================== from[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]from THE ROMAN CHURCH'S ADMISSION OF CHANGING THE SABBATH[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot] Thomaston, Georgia[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] May 22, 1934[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] Pop Pius XI[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Rome, Italy[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] Dear Sir;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Is the accusation true, that Protestants accuse you of? They say you[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] changed the Seventh Day Sabbath to the, so-called, Christian Sunday:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Identical with the First Day of the week. If so, when did you make the[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] change, and by what authority?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] Yours very truly,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] J. L. Day


[FONT=&quot]====================================[/FONT]
[/FONT]

The Reply:
​

THE CATHOLIC EXTENSION MAGAZINE
180 Wabash Ave., Chicago, Illinois
(Under the Blessing of Pop Pius XI)
​

[FONT=&quot] Dear sir:[/FONT]
​

[FONT=&quot] Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]> (1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]> and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] them in the eyes of every thinking man.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] (2) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church instituted by Christ, to teach[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] and guide men through life, has the right to change the Ceremonial laws of[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to the Sunday.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] We frankly say, "yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] made many other laws, for instance, the Friday Abstinence, the unmarried[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] marriages, and a thousand other laws."[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] (3) We also say that of all Protestants, the Seventh-day Adventists are[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] the only group that reason correctly and are consistent with their[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] teachings. It is always somewhat laughable to see the Protestant Churches,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] in pulpit and legislature, demand the observance of Sunday of which there[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] is nothing in the Bible.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] With best wishes,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Peter R. Tramer, Editor[/FONT]

 

[SAAN]

Speaking about distorted view.... my only words in this thread thus far is...... What Paul taught about days taken to honor God in Rom 14 and some other places should take precedence over commentary.
Lets not get testy and act like I've said anything against Sabbath or any day a man choses to worship. You believe Sabbath is your day...good luck with that. Your claims about Paul and the apostles has no scriptural directives.

The word Sabbath is nowhere to be found in the book of Romans. Romans 14, IN CONTEXT, is referring to vegetarianism and fasting and is not debating about Saturday vs Sunday worship.

 

[Meowzltov]

Nobody has the right to change the bible, to add anything or take away anything

So.... we should get rid of the New Testament, since it added to the Bible?

 

[Cribstyl]

The word Sabbath is nowhere to be found in the book of Romans.

Ok.. you've proven that Sabbath is not a subject in Romans. I guess you want to say that Sabbaths are the authorized days of worship?

Romans 14, IN CONTEXT, is referring to vegetarianism and fasting and is not debating about Saturday vs Sunday worship.

Ok.. you've proven there's no debate about Sat/Sun worship. But you want to ignore what these words in red below are saying about days regarded unto the Lord.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

 

[Cribstyl]

The weekly Sabbath never mentioned in Romans 14.

One man "regards one day ABOVE the other while another Regards them ALL" - He who REGARDs the day in Romm 14 - observes it.

No one in Rom 14 "Regards no day".

The reference to days in Rom 14 - is to the Bible-approved annual holy days - of Lev 23.

Really?
What part of "one day above another" or "every day alike" is not a reference to all 7 days of the week?
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

 

[KimT]

Jesus IS my sabbath. I rest in Him.