Did the Catholic Church changed the Sabbath to Sunday?

[Cribstyl]

Here is an intelligent, short and to the point video about Sunday worship's origin.

I do not succumb to Catholic beliefs and practices. I do my best to report historical truths. My goal is to present that the foundational day of worship was established on biblical arguments made thousands of years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joHiQsgDTs4

SDA claim to use the Catechism to show what Catholics believe. Are they telling the truth about what Catholics believe? It's should obvious to them how Sunday is not kept as a 24hr Sabbath as describe in the law.

 

[Cribstyl]

Like it or not, Catholicism carried the torch of Christianity. One of their arguments about keeping The Ten Commandment is:



Sabbatarians hold that the Sabbath is part of the decalogue, which is the immutable law of God.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that the ten commandments are "fundamentally immutable" (no. 2072). However, the Church considers the Sabbath to have two.aspects: an essential part to worship the Lord on one day per week and a ceremonial part as to the exact day.

 

[DISRAELI]

I don't think anyone ever made the decision to "change from Saturday to Sunday".
In the very early days of the church, there was no authoritative body capable of making that decision for the church, and there is no evidence that they ever did.
We can understand the change without bringing in the assumption that someone had to make a conscious decision.
I would see it as a two stage process.
1) The early gentile church abandoned Saturday sabbath simply by not taking up the practice in the first place.
So if anyone was responsible for dropping Saturdays, it was Paul, when he told the gentiles that they did not need to follow the details of Jewish law.
At the same time, they began celebrating Sunday as the day of the Resurrection. Lots of early evidence for the celebration.
2) Gradually, over the next couple of centuries, they began thinking of the Sunday celebration as a sabbath observance. Nobody decided they should do this. It was an idea which grew and spread in the community, as ideas do (whose decision was it that young men should wear baseball caps back to front?).
The mental transition from "Sunday is our special day of the week" to "Sunday is our sabbath" would have been natural enough.
Constantine's place in this was that he enforced current Christian practice on everybody else.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Here is an intelligent, short and to the point video about Sunday worship's origin.

I do not succumb to Catholic beliefs and practices. I do my best to report historical truths. My goal is to present that the foundational day of worship was established on biblical arguments made thousands of years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joHiQsgDTs4

SDA claim to use the Catechism to show what Catholics believe. Are they telling the truth about what Catholics believe? It's should obvious to them how Sunday is not kept as a 24hr Sabbath as describe in the law.

Good video clip.

It isn't Catholics who changed the Sabbath. The Sabbath day has never changed but its significance as a sign and a type of things to come has come to an end, as it should, because the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled it. Christ himself is our rest and his works as well as his passion, resurrection, and ascension are the works that please God so that we, who are his body, need not work to please God but may rest in the completed work of our Lord Jesus Christ. Thus keeping days is no longer a law under which we must labour but rather keeping the Lord's day is a joyous celebration in remembrance of the day on which Jesus Christ our Lord rose from the grave and brought life and immortality to light. We honour the Lord on his day not as a matter of servitude but as sons and daughters rejoicing in the joy of our Lord.

It's very simple, really, Christ has risen and our sins are forgiven. If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. That's the message of the gospel in a nutshell. Of course there is more, much more, than mere forgiveness in Christ but there is definitely forgiveness in him. That is why we celebrate the Lord's day. It is the day we were objectively set free from bondage to sin.

 

[BobRyan]

Here is an intelligent, short and to the point video about Sunday worship's origin.

I do not succumb to Catholic beliefs and practices. I do my best to report historical truths. My goal is to present that the foundational day of worship was established on biblical arguments made thousands of years ago.

SDA claim to use the Catechism to show what Catholics believe. Are they telling the truth about what Catholics believe? It's should obvious to them how Sunday is not kept as a 24hr Sabbath as describe in the law.

Are Catholics "SDA" the way some seem to have it??? Do these Catholic documents "not exist" or "exist only to be noticed by Seventh-day Adventists"???

For example Leo Trese in his book "The Faith Explained" -- commentary on the Baltimore Catechism after Vatican II - is he secretly "SDA"??



[FONT=&quot]The Faith Explained[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (an RC commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii) states on Page 242 that [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
====================begin short summary
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]changing the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord's day[/FONT][FONT=&quot] to Sunday[/FONT][FONT=&quot] was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name". [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]page 243

"Nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day From Saturday to Sunday. We know of the change only from the tradition of the Church - a fact handed down to us...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many Non-Catholics, who say that they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and Yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church"

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]====================================== begin expanded quote
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. (from "The Faith Explained" page 243[/FONT][FONT=&quot].))

"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]we know that in the O.T it was the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]seventh day[/FONT][FONT=&quot] of the week - the Sabbath day [/FONT][FONT=&quot]- which was [/FONT][FONT=&quot]observed as the Lord's day[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. that was [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the law as God gave it[/FONT][FONT=&quot]...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day[/FONT][FONT=&quot].. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]church had the right to make such a law[/FONT][FONT=&quot] is evident[/FONT][FONT=&quot]...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The reason for [/FONT][FONT=&quot]changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday[/FONT][FONT=&quot] lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday.[/FONT][FONT=&quot].that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

Another document that has been seen in the 20th century --

[FONT=&quot]================================================== from[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]from THE ROMAN CHURCH'S ADMISSION OF CHANGING THE SABBATH[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot] Thomaston, Georgia[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] May 22, 1934[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] Pop Pius XI[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Rome, Italy[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] Dear Sir;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Is the accusation true, that Protestants accuse you of? They say you[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] changed the Seventh Day Sabbath to the, so-called, Christian Sunday:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Identical with the First Day of the week. If so, when did you make the[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] change, and by what authority?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] Yours very truly,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] J. L. Day


[FONT=&quot]====================================[/FONT]
[/FONT]

The Reply:
​

THE CATHOLIC EXTENSION MAGAZINE
180 Wabash Ave., Chicago, Illinois
(Under the Blessing of Pop Pius XI)
​

[FONT=&quot] Dear sir:[/FONT]
​

[FONT=&quot] Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]> (1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]> and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] them in the eyes of every thinking man.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] (2) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church instituted by Christ, to teach[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] and guide men through life, has the right to change the Ceremonial laws of[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to the Sunday.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] We frankly say, "yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] made many other laws, for instance, the Friday Abstinence, the unmarried[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] marriages, and a thousand other laws."[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] (3) We also say that of all Protestants, the Seventh-day Adventists are[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] the only group that reason correctly and are consistent with their[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] teachings. It is always somewhat laughable to see the Protestant Churches,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] in pulpit and legislature, demand the observance of Sunday of which there[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] is nothing in the Bible.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] With best wishes,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Peter R. Tramer, Editor[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

Another document that "supposedly" -- "does not exist except for Seventh-day Adventists who notice it" by some accounts.

[FONT=&quot]from: Catholic Cornucopia: The Faith of Our Fathers: VIII. The Church and the Bible[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
The Faith of Our Fathers

VIII. The Church and the Bible

Third--A rule of faith, or a competent guide to heave, must be able to instruct in all the truths necessary for salvation. Now the Scriptures alone do not contain all the truths which a Christian is bound to believe, nor do they explicitly enjoin all the duties which he is obliged to practice. Not to mention other examples, is not every Christian obliged to sanctify Sunday and to abstain on that day from unnecessary servile work? Is not the observance of this law among the most prominent of our sacred duties? But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.
The Catholic Church correctly teaches that our Lord and His Apostles inculcated certain important duties of religion which are not recorded by the inspired writers.[See John xxi. 25; II. Thess. ii. 14.] For instance, most Christians pray to the Holy Ghost, a practice which is nowhere found in the Bible.
We must, therefore, conclude that the Scriptures alone cannot be a sufficient guide and rule of faith because they cannot, at any time, be within the reach of every inquirer; because they are not of themselves clear and intelligible even in matters of the highest importance, and because they do not contain all the truths necessary for salvation.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

In the Video the idea is that "the Lord's Day" is not the Sabbath - it never was - it is Sunday the "not Sabbath" that is celebrated in keeping with the Sabbath Commandment "as bent" to point to week-day-1.


By contrast - Leo Trese -

[FONT=&quot](from "The Faith Explained" page 243[/FONT][FONT=&quot].))

"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]we know that in the O.T it was the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]seventh day[/FONT][FONT=&quot] of the week - the Sabbath day [/FONT][FONT=&quot]- which was [/FONT][FONT=&quot]observed as the Lord's day[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. that was [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the law as God gave it[/FONT][FONT=&quot]...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day[/FONT][FONT=&quot].. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]church had the right to make such a law[/FONT][FONT=&quot] is evident[/FONT][FONT=&quot]...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The reason for [/FONT][FONT=&quot]changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday[/FONT][FONT=&quot] lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday.[/FONT][FONT=&quot].that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

Catholic Catechism claims that ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments - the [FONT=&quot]Decalogue - remains binding such that the Sabbath Commandment is simply "bent" to point to week-day 1 and all 10 remain binding.


[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.

[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

Pope John Paul II

[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini pt 13 -[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

Some will prefer even more quotes from "The Faith Explained" so for them...

[FONT=&quot]The Faith Explained[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (an RC commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii) states on Page 242 that [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]changing the Lord's day to Sunday[/FONT][FONT=&quot] was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name". [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]page 243[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

"nothing is said in the bible about the

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]change of the Lord's day From Saturday to Sunday[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. We know of the change only from the tradition of the Church - a fact handed down to us...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many Non-Catholics, who say that they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and Yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church" [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]. (from "The Faith Explained" page 243[/FONT][FONT=&quot].))[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The reason for [/FONT][FONT=&quot]changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday[/FONT][FONT=&quot] lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday[/FONT][FONT=&quot]..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church[/FONT]

===========================================


[FONT=&quot]The Catholic commentary on the Baltimore catechism post
Vatican ii explains that keeping Sunday is in obedience to the Sabbath commandment. Catholics attend "in obedience to the third commandment of God 'remember thou keep holy the Lord's day'" [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]((from "The Faith Explained" pg 241.))

[/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]Ten Commandments - [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Note: Catholic teaching embraces the authority of the 10 commandments - all ten, and makes them obligatory for all Catholics.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

"God has made the task somewhat easier for us by spelling out in the ten commandments our principal duties to God himself, to our neighbor and to ourselves. The first three commandments (not two but three) outline for us our duties to God; the other seven indicate our principal duties to our neighbor...

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]the Ten Commandments were given by God originally, engraved on two slabs of stone, to Moses on mount Sinai. They were ratified by our Lord Jesus Christ "do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. "i have not come to abolish but to fulfill". [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus fulfilled the law in two ways. First of all by pinpointing our duties.. Secondly, Jesus clarified our duties..[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
It should be pointed out that the commandments of the church are not new and additional burdens placed on us over and above God's ten commandments...here then are the divine directives which tell us how we shall fulfill our nature as human beings and how we shall achieve our destiny as redeemed souls: the ten commandments of God, the seven spiritual and the seven corporal works of mercy and the commandments of God's church".[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]((The Faith Explained[/FONT][FONT=&quot] pg 191-192)).[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

The video either hides these facts or misleads the viewers to surmise that these sources are actually Seventh-day Adventist, or should only be read by Seventh-day Adventists


[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.” Rev. Peter Geiermann C.S.S.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50 (1946).

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

"But since Saturday, not Sunday, is specified in the Bible, isn't it curious that non Catholics who profess to take their religion directly from the Bible and not from the Church, observe Sunday instead of Saturday? Yes, of course, it is inconsistent; but this change was made about fifteen centuries before Protestantism was born, and by that time the custom was universally observed. They have continued the custom, even though it rests upon the authority of the Catholic Church and not upon an explicit text in the Bible. The observance remains as a reminder of the Mother Church from which the non Catholic sects broke away??like a boy running away from home but still carrying in his pocket a picture of his mother or a locket of her hair." The Faith of Millions: The Credentials of the Catholic Religion, by Rev. John O’ Brien, Ph.D., p. 473.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

''The [Roman Catholic] Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday.'' The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, p. 4.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

“The observance of Sunday by the Protestants is homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the [Roman Catholic] Church.” Monsignor Louis Segur, Plain Talk about the Protestantism of Today, p. 213.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

''I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says 'Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.' The Catholic Church says, No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week. And lo! The entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the Holy Catholic Church." Priest Thomas Enright, C.S.S.R., February 18, 1884

"Sunday is a Catholic institution, and... can be defended only on Catholic principles... From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first." Catholic Press, Aug. 25, 1900

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

"The Sabbath was Saturday, not Sunday. The Church altered the observance of the Sabbath to the observance of Sunday. Protestants must be rather puzzled by the keeping of Sunday when God distinctly said, 'Keep holy the Sabbath Day.' The word Sunday does not come anywhere in the Bible, so, without knowing it they are obeying the authority of the Catholic Church." Canon Cafferata, The Catechism Explained, p. 89.

''Reason and sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or Catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible.'' John Cardinal Gibbons, The Catholic Mirror, December 23, 1893.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

[FONT=&quot]From: https://www.ewtn.com/library/CATECHSM/PIUSXCAT.HTM[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]CATECHISM OF SAINT PIUS X[/FONT]

​

The Catechism of the Council of Trent was directed to all priests. The recently released Catechism of the Catholic Church was directed to all bishops. The Catechism of Pope St. Pius X is that pope's partial realization of a simple, plain, brief, popular Catechism for uniform use throughout the whole world. In other words it is directed to the layman. It was used in the ecclesiastical province of Rome and for some years in other parts of Italy. It was not, however, prescribed for use throughout the universal church.
Parts relating to canon law may not be up to date.

​

CONTENTS
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]……[/FONT]
The Third Commandment
1 Q. What does the Third Commandment: Remember thou keep holy the Sabbath day, command us to do?
A. The Third Commandment: Remember thou keep holy the Sabbath day, commands us to honour God by acts of worship on festivals.
2 Q. What are festivals?
A. In the Old Law they were Saturdays and certain other days regarded as specially solemn by the Jews; in the New Law they are Sundays and other festivals instituted by the Church.
3 Q. Why is Sunday sanctified instead of Saturday in the New Law?
A. Sunday, which means the Lord's Day, was substituted for Saturday, because it was on that day that our Lord rose from the dead.
4 Q. What act of worship is commanded us on festivals?
A. We are commanded to assist devoutly at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
5 Q. With what other good works does a good Christian sanctify festivals?
A. A good Christian sanctifies festivals: (1) By attending Christian Doctrine, sermons, and the Divine Office; (2) By frequently and devoutly receiving the sacraments of Penance and the Blessed Eucharist; (3) By the practice of prayer and works of Christian charity.
6 Q. What does the Third Commandment forbid?
A. The Third Commandment forbids servile works and any other works that hinder the worship of God.

 

[BobRyan]

THE CATECHISM OF PERSEVERANCE

By MONSIGNOR GAUME[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]https://books.google.com/books?id=SNAHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA858&lpg=PA858&dq=%22Q.+What+is+commanded+by+the+Third+Commandment?%22&source=bl&ots=0f89Bg7K4a&sig=tLPjHP2iCu1jZ0EhJfxVD5-i-9o&hl=en&sa=X&ei=XBclVdSaE8a9sAXe7YAg&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22Q.%20What%20is%20commanded%20by%20the%20Third%20Commandment%3F%22&f=false[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

I do not succumb to Catholic beliefs and practices. I do my best to report historical truths. My goal is to present that the foundational day of worship was established on biblical arguments made thousands of years ago.

Perfect! -- me too!!

 

[Cribstyl]

The fact that BobRyan posted 11 of the first 14 posts to include links and loops to other threads appears as a desperate attempt to confuse the counter arguments against his threads and posts.

We see his same arguments on every thread. Why?


Will he dispute the arguments set forth in this OP or will he continue to post the same arguments that we have addressed when he first presented them.

 

[BobRyan]

The fact that BobRyan posted 11 of the first 14 posts to include links and loops to other threads appears as a desperate attempt to confuse .

No confusion I posted facts - I gave catholic sources and quoted them.

Some of them have been posted before and have stood up to all challenges to them.

Most of them I have not posted before - or in the past year.


The facts "remain".

I am not arguing against any "fact" posted -whether in your posts or mine. Your OP does point to "war against the Sabbath Commandment" by some people in the 3rd century and beyond. No doubt there has always been the "at war" group. But the RCC is on record as it stands today affirming the DECALOGUE as the TEN Commandments still binding on the saints today. That the pursuit of error has lead to a winding road ,, a tangled web for them -- I have never challenged.

Historic fact does not change.

The "claims" that were made are challenged by 'facts' --

That point remains.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Cribstyl]

Perfect! -- me too!!

The OP is a Catholic response to your arguments. Why should we trust a SDA to tell us about what other denomination's beliefs?

Your posts continues to present minority opinions rather than official truth.

Go ahead and continue to spam.......you're exposing your tactics of avoiding issues presented.

 

[Cribstyl]

I don't think anyone ever made the decision to "change from Saturday to Sunday".
In the very early days of the church, there was no authoritative body capable of making that decision for the church, and there is no evidence that they ever did.
We can understand the change without bringing in the assumption that someone had to make a conscious decision.
I would see it as a two stage process.
1) The early gentile church abandoned Saturday sabbath simply by not taking up the practice in the first place.
So if anyone was responsible for dropping Saturdays, it was Paul, when he told the gentiles that they did not need to follow the details of Jewish law.
At the same time, they began celebrating Sunday as the day of the Resurrection. Lots of early evidence for the celebration.
2) Gradually, over the next couple of centuries, they began thinking of the Sunday celebration as a sabbath observance. Nobody decided they should do this. It was an idea which grew and spread in the community, as ideas do (whose decision was it that young men should wear baseball caps back to front?).
The mental transition from "Sunday is our special day of the week" to "Sunday is our sabbath" would have been natural enough.
Constantine's place in this was that he enforced current Christian practice on everybody else.

Well received......Thank you, and welcome to CF

 

[Lily_o_valley]

As a Messianic believer, I find the Roman Catholic's logic on this matter rather odd. I have no problem at all with meeting on a Sunday (or any other day), or even declaring Sundays or any other days holy. But I don't believe any man or church has the right to de-sanctify the seventh day. It is still the day God set apart for rest. (By the way I haven't been able to see the video that the OP posted). Shalom x