Where is the line with "playing God"?

[AV1611VET]

On a separate matter, I was asking why Christians go see doctors when they are feeling ill or are suffering from life threatening diseases.

And I said the beloved physician said the Great Physician said we need to.

Is that sufficient? or should hemophiliacs slowly bleed to death, praying for the bleeding to stop?

 

[Loudmouth]

And I said the beloved physician said the Great Physician said we need to.

What is that? Fourth hand?

Is that sufficient? or should hemophiliacs slowly bleed to death, praying for the bleeding to stop?

Why are they afraid of death? What is wrong with dying?

 

[DogmaHunter]

Funny that is the exact same thing I was thinking about you.

I'm not the one who's making random responses to a very clearly defined point.

 

[AV1611VET]

What is that? Fourth hand?

Why are they afraid of death? What is wrong with dying?

Like I said, you're the one scratching your head over this.

Not I.

 

[joshua 1 9]

You would be immortal?

Adam lived for 1000 years.

 

[Loudmouth]

Adam lived for 1000 years.

If we are going by stories in books, there are vampires who lived longer.

 

[bhsmte]

Adam lived for 1000 years.

Only because he took his Flintstone vitamins.

 

[joshua 1 9]

It was implied that if you ate right that you would never get sick and die, hence the lack of need for doctors. That is what I was replying to.

On a separate matter, I was asking why Christians go see doctors when they are feeling ill or are suffering from life threatening diseases.

If we are going by stories in books, there are vampires who lived longer.

I am sure your more of a expert on vampires based on demonology. I tend to study God and the things of God.

 

[Chriliman]

I wouldn't. I'm against the death penalty.

I note that none of you are actually giving me a reasonable argument to show that there is something wrong in my reasoning.

A mother who wishes to be certain that her kids get to heaven, can be certain (according to you) of that by aborting her child.

Perhaps she cares more about the soul of her children then her own.
Perhap she has done things already that makes her belief that all hope for her is lost anyway, so she has nothing to lose anyhow.

There could be many reasons why she wouldn't care about her own soul.

Parents do that all the time. Many, perhaps most, would knowingly catch a bullet to protect their children from harm, sacrificing their lives in the process.

I'ld say that the "grandeur" of a sacrifice is directly related to the value of the thing sacrificed, yes?

Sacrificing your life to save another is generally seen as an act of pure heroism. Soldiers doing that are declared hero's all the time. Civilians doing that become famous in epicly viral internet video's/articles.

I'ld think that sacrificing your eternal life would give even more grandeur to the altruistic act?
Making it even more heroic?

Please point out the flaw in my logic if you think there is one.

If a mother truly has the love of God within her, aborting her baby is the furthest thing from her mind. The foremost thing in her mind is raising her child to love God with all of its heart and soul and spread the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ. Obviously this is God's goal as well. If a man feels his purpose is to sacrifice his eternal life by killing children and babies in order that they may have salvation, he has fallen for a very horrific lie straight from satan and in fact he did not have an eternal life to sacrifice in the first place. When someone truly accepts Christ as their Lord and Savior, there only goal is to please God and follow God's lead in their life, they can in no way sacrifice their salvation in any way, if God has chosen them, they are sealed for eternity (scripture backs all of this). And the one True God would never tell someone to sacrifice their salvation for the sake of children and babies, this is a truly ridiculous thought that can only come from a source that is opposite of God's will.

Honestly, the problem with your logic is that you do not understand the beliefs of Christianity and this is clear because you are not a Christian. If you truly want to understand Christianity, you have to become a true follower of Jesus Christ, this is the only way.

Now that I've shown you why your logic is faulty, I expect you to try and understand my point of view.

 

[Loudmouth]

I am sure your more of a expert on vampires based on demonology. I tend to study God and the things of God.

Do you really think that writing something down in a book makes it true?

Is it too much to ask for claims that can be supported by something akin to evidence?

 

[DogmaHunter]

If a mother truly has the love of God within her, aborting her baby is the furthest thing from her mind.

The premise of my argument is that the mother doesn't care about here own soul - or at least not as much as she cares about the soul of her children.

All she cares about is that their children get an eternity in paradise instead of hell.
I thought I was quite clear about that, so I have to wonder why you disregard that premise in the very first sentence...

Because of this, I don't see this going anywhere. But I'll read on and see where it leads.

The foremost thing in her mind is raising her child to love God with all of its heart and soul and spread the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ. Obviously this is God's goal as well. If a man feels his purpose is to sacrifice his eternal life by killing children and babies in order that they may have salvation, he has fallen for a very horrific lie straight from satan and in fact he did not have an eternal life to sacrifice in the first place.

See? Ignoring the premise doesn't result in a proper response.

I already establshed that SHE DOES NOT CARE about herself.
All she cares about is saving her children from hell.

And, according to the beliefs presented in this thread by some people, the best way to ensure that the children go straight to heaven is to kill them while they are still babies or toddlers.

When someone truly accepts Christ as their Lord and Savior, there only goal is to please God and follow God's lead in their life, they can in no way sacrifice their salvation in any way, if God has chosen them, they are sealed for eternity (scripture backs all of this).

This only makes it worse...
This would mean that a mother who's "sealed for eternity" already, can do whatever the hell she wants and still get to paradise.

Now, we don't even need my premise anymore... She can go on killing rampages ensuring the babies go straight to heaven and then follow suit....

And the one True God would never tell someone to sacrifice their salvation for the sake of children and babies, this is a truly ridiculous thought that can only come from a source that is opposite of God's will.

I certainly agree it is a ridiculous thought.
But nonetheless, it is perfectly valid and sound in the context of "babies that die go straight to heaven".

If I truelly believe that and if I care more about the soul of my children then my own, what's to stop me from killing my children?

Honestly, the problem with your logic is that you do not understand the beliefs of Christianity and this is clear because you are not a Christian. If you truly want to understand Christianity, you have to become a true follower of Jesus Christ, this is the only way.

I'm just giving a factual response to the claims made in this thread.
If dead babies go straight to heaven, then killing babies is an act of altruism.

Now that I've shown you why your logic is faulty,

You haven't shown anything at all.

You completely ignored my premise and you just started preaching about things that didn't address my argument at all.

You ONLY addressed the person who thinks about killing babies. None of your arguments have any impact, since I have already established that the person in question DOESN'T CARE ABOUT HIS OWN SOUL. He only cares about the souls of his children.

It doesn't matter to that person if he goes to hell or into oblivion... as long as his kids get to heaven - he's cool.

Any argument addressing the soul or whatever of this person is going to fall on deaf ears.

Consider a mother that is about to risk her life to save her children. She will meet certain death, but her children shall live.

Do you really think you are going to change her mind by telling her that she should be concerned with her own life? Do you really think that this person is going to let her children die to save her own life..... Especially after she has already decided that the lives of her kids are more important then her own life???

I expect you to try and understand my point of view.

What I understand is that nobody here seems to have a valid argument to counter what I stated.

If the idea is that dead babies go straight to hell, then the best thing one can do for non-christian babies is......killing them. Since letting them grow up would ensure them not getting into heaven - being non-christians and thus not accepting the saviour bit and all of that... accepting jesus is a requirement to get to heaven, correct?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Do you really think that writing something down in a book makes it true?

Is it too much to ask for claims that can be supported by something akin to evidence?

Do you really not know what it means for the Bible to be inspired by God ?

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:2tim3:1

prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.2pet1:21

 

[joshua 1 9]

The premise of my argument is that the mother doesn't care about here own soul - or at least not as much as she cares about the soul of her children.

All she cares about is that their children get an eternity in paradise instead of hell.
I thought I was quite clear about that, so I have to wonder why you disregard that premise in the very first sentence...

Because of this, I don't see this going anywhere. But I'll read on and see where it leads.



See? Ignoring the premise doesn't result in a proper response.

I already establshed that SHE DOES NOT CARE about herself.
All she cares about is saving her children from hell.

And, according to the beliefs presented in this thread by some people, the best way to ensure that the children go straight to heaven is to kill them while they are still babies or toddlers.




This only makes it worse...
This would mean that a mother who's "sealed for eternity" already, can do whatever the hell she wants and still get to paradise.

Now, we don't even need my premise anymore... She can go on killing rampages ensuring the babies go straight to heaven and then follow suit....




I certainly agree it is a ridiculous thought.
But nonetheless, it is perfectly valid and sound in the context of "babies that die go straight to heaven".

If I truelly believe that and if I care more about the soul of my children then my own, what's to stop me from killing my children?



I'm just giving a factual response to the claims made in this thread.
If dead babies go straight to heaven, then killing babies is an act of altruism.


You haven't shown anything at all.

You completely ignored my premise and you just started preaching about things that didn't address my argument at all.

You ONLY addressed the person who thinks about killing babies. None of your arguments have any impact, since I have already established that the person in question DOESN'T CARE ABOUT HIS OWN SOUL. He only cares about the souls of his children.

It doesn't matter to that person if he goes to hell or into oblivion... as long as his kids get to heaven - he's cool.

Any argument addressing the soul or whatever of this person is going to fall on deaf ears.

Consider a mother that is about to risk her life to save her children. She will meet certain death, but her children shall live.

Do you really think you are going to change her mind by telling her that she should be concerned with her own life? Do you really think that this person is going to let her children die to save her own life..... Especially after she has already decided that the lives of her kids are more important then her own life???




What I understand is that nobody here seems to have a valid argument to counter what I stated.

If the idea is that dead babies go straight to hell, then the best thing one can do for non-christian babies is......killing them. Since letting them grow up would ensure them not getting into heaven - being non-christians and thus not accepting the saviour bit and all of that... accepting jesus is a requirement to get to heaven, correct?

You go to a lot of trouble not to believe. It would be scary if you served the Living God because you have so much zeal in what you do.

 

[Loudmouth]

Do you really not know what it means for the Bible to be inspired by God ?

Do you really know what it means for something to be an empty assertion?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Only because he took his Flintstone vitamins.

Maybe if he ate the dinosaurs vitamins he would have lived 2000 years.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Do you really know what it means for something to be an empty assertion?

How can the Bible be empty when it is backed up by God himself.

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Isa 55:11

You must have an alternative motive. If you tested the Word of God then you would know it is true.

I cannot imagine any reason why you would be making claims that you obviously have never verified.

 

[bhsmte]

How can the Bible be empty when it is backed up by God himself.

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Isa 55:11

You must have an alternative motive. If you tested the Word of God then you would know it is true.

I cannot imagine any reason why you would be making claims that you obviously have never verified.

How do you test the word of God?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Do you really know what it means for something to be an empty assertion?

Clearly you do not know what it means. Why do you people always judge others for the very thing you are guilty of? Why do you tell on yourselves like that? Perhaps because God only gives you the ability to judge your own heart.

 

[DogmaHunter]

You go to a lot of trouble not to believe.

Again with the random comments.

This is not an argument for not believing.

This is merely a response to specific statements made in this thread.

 

[joshua 1 9]

How do you test the word of God?

The Bible is filled to overflowing with promises. You do what the Bible says to do and you will get the results the Bible says you will get.

The Bible is referred to as the old and new covenant. A covenant is a legal binding agreement. If you do your part then you can be sure that God will do His part.