When did evolution begin?

[Larniavc]

Yes...DNA abnormalities

So how can they have nothing to do with evolution? Permanent change of the nucleotide sequence of the genome of an organism is then acted upon by natural selection (if it has a fitness value). How is that not a component of evolution?

 

[AV1611VET]

How can the Smith family have both grandchildren and grandparents?

 

[KenBrace]

So, if everything perished in the previous layer, what was left to evolve in succeeding layers?

Everything didn't perish. It changed.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I predict your next post will also be void of evidence based on the scientific method.

Sorry you have no idea of what the scientific method is. Your prediction is true only because you are a coward. You keep running away from a simple task. Why are you so afraid of the concept of evidence.?

 

[Aman777]

↑
Aman:>>The reason no one can identify Eden is because it was on Adam's Earth which was "clean dissolved" in the Flood.

Dad:>>Try to phrase your flimsy unsound speculations in another way, so that they do not come off sounding like something that happened in fact.

Are you questioning the words of the Spirit of Truth? It's His account which I post.

Aman:>>Isa 24:19 The four rivers all began as one river which came from the Garden of Eden which was the highest point on Adam's Earth.

Dad:>>Oh? What if a spring fed a river or rivers? That could allow it to even go uphill a ways, no?

No. Gen 2:10 ¶ And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.

Dad:>>But simply having 4 rivers from one does not help you.

Sure it does since the only way to show more than 4 rivers on Adam's world is to "add to" what is actually written. Amen?

Aman:>>IF our Earth were like Adam's the one river would run from Mt Everest and then become 4 rivers. This could NEVER supply the water to our SPHERE but did it well on Adam's FLAT Earth which was only 22.5 feet (15 cubits) high on it's highest mountain. Gen 7:20

Dad:>>Sphere smere. Remember it was in a garden. The waters from that river presumably did not water Australia, Antarctica, and elsewhere?

Of course not since Adam's world was totally destroyed in the Flood. ll Peter 3:3-7

Aman:>>Those who believe our world was "divided" physically at Peleg's time cannot support their view with actual facts.

Dad:>>Except that if we graph the lifespan changes it is from that exact time that it really starts. The few folks born before that time, if they started to live a Peleg type lifespan after Peleg was here, would not have lived longer than most folks! Not after the days of Peleg. Example Noah lived say 300 years after the flood. Noe Peleg lived something like if I recall, 235 years. If the change came in the latter part of Peleg's days, that means Noah would have lived only 65 years after that! Shem would have lived something like about, 265 years after that! In other words the life spans converge as being similar at that time. That is evidence!

I agree since it clearly shows HOW the LORD scattered Noah's descendants (Humans) all over the Earth by dividing them at Babel. That was what happened in Peleg's time and NOT some physical splitting of the Earth as you post.

Dad:>>Then we can look at animals and how they got where they did after the flood. Nothing but a fast continental separation does it far as I can see!

Our Planet was filled with some 1 Million sons of God (prehistoric people) and Millions of animals were also here when Noah arrived some 10k years ago. You seem to think that it was the present Earth which was totally destroyed in the Flood. Our Earth can never be "clean dissolved" Isa 24:19 in a Flood like Adam's Earth was. Our Earth will be burned. ll Peter 3:10

Aman:>>The world was "divided" between the sons of God (prehistoric people) and Humans (descendants of Adam) at that time.

Dad:>>Now that's just crazy. Totally made up nonsense.

Caught you looking in the Mirror again. Amen? God Bless you

 

[justlookinla]

Sorry you have no idea of what the scientific method is. Your prediction is true only because you are a coward. You keep running away from a simple task. Why are you so afraid of the concept of evidence.?

And your next post will also be empty boasts and void of evidence based on the scientific method.

This is getting boring. Nothing new to see here folks.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And your next post will also be empty boasts and void of evidence based on the scientific method.

This is getting boring. Nothing new to see here folks.

I never make empty posts. That is what you do. You keep forgetting that I have offered to help you with your learning disability many times.

You do not seem to understand basic logic. You will not be able to appreciate scientific evidence until you understand the concept. You have shown time after time that this concept is beyond your current ability to understand. What is a shame since most high school students could understand this concept.

 

[Aman777]

I never make empty posts. That is what you do. You keep forgetting that I have offered to help you with your learning disability many times.

You do not seem to understand basic logic. You will not be able to appreciate scientific evidence until you understand the concept. You have shown time after time that this concept is beyond your current ability to understand. What is a shame since most high school students could understand this concept.

It's because High School students have been brainwashed for 12 years and know that they will fail unless they parrot the LIES of Evolution. Amen? Amen.

 

[justlookinla]

I never make empty posts. That is what you do. You keep forgetting that I have offered to help you with your learning disability many times.

You do not seem to understand basic logic. You will not be able to appreciate scientific evidence until you understand the concept. You have shown time after time that this concept is beyond your current ability to understand. What is a shame since most high school students could understand this concept.

Every post you respond with empty boasts and void of evidence. Watch, you'll do it in response to this post.

 

[Loudmouth]

It's because High School students have been brainwashed for 12 years and know that they will fail unless they parrot the LIES of Evolution. Amen? Amen.

Except that you can't point to any lies.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Every post you respond with empty boasts and void of evidence. Watch, you'll do it in response to this post.

You can't show one post of my with an empty boast. I can show that you continually run away from a topic that you are afraid of and do not understand. Do you want to seem some evidence that you are afraid? Fine here we go:

I went back a few posts to see how you responded to my challenges and offers of help to you. I offered you help here: http://www.christianforums.com/threads/when-did-evolution-begin.7898541/page-42#post-68363571

Your response? Your ran away: When did evolution begin?

I repeated the offer and pointed out that you were cowardly running away:URL="http://www.christianforums.com/threads/when-did-evolution-begin.7898541/page-42#post-68364087"]When did evolution begin?[/URL]

Your response? An insult and you cowardly ran away again:When did evolution begin?

There, now I gave you evidence of your cowardice, your claim has been shown to be wrong. My offer is still out there. You do not even know what qualifies as evidence. I offered to help you understand the concept. You ran away from an offer that an honest person would jump at. What does logic tell us using these facts?

 

[justlookinla]

You can't show one post of my with an empty boast. I can show that you continually run away from a topic that you are afraid of and do not understand. Do you want to seem some evidence that you are afraid? Fine here we go:

I went back a few posts to see how you responded to my challenges and offers of help to you. I offered you help here: http://www.christianforums.com/threads/when-did-evolution-begin.7898541/page-42#post-68363571

Your response? Your ran away: When did evolution begin?

I repeated the offer and pointed out that you were cowardly running away:URL="http://www.christianforums.com/threads/when-did-evolution-begin.7898541/page-42#post-68364087"]When did evolution begin?[/URL]

Your response? An insult and you cowardly ran away again:When did evolution begin?

There, now I gave you evidence of your cowardice, your claim has been shown to be wrong. My offer is still out there. You do not even know what qualifies as evidence. I offered to help you understand the concept. You ran away from an offer that an honest person would jump at. What does logic tell us using these facts?

Told ya.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Told ya.

Once again you demonstrate that you do not understand the nature of evidence. I made a claim, I supported my claim with posts from both you and me. That was by definition "evidence". So you do not even understand what any form of evidence is, much less scientific evidence.

Now it is my turn for a theory and a prediction. I believe that justlookinla is terribly afraid of the concept of evidence. His next post in response to me will be a frightened denial and a continued attempt to run away from an offerng of aid.

 

[justlookinla]

Once again you demonstrate that you do not understand the nature of evidence. I made a claim, I supported my claim with posts from both you and me. That was by definition "evidence". So you do not even understand what any form of evidence is, much less scientific evidence.

Now it is my turn for a theory and a prediction. I believe that justlookinla is terribly afraid of the concept of evidence. His next post in response to me will be a frightened denial and a continued attempt to run away from an offerng of aid.

And still...nothing but empty boasts and a complete lack of evidence. Same ole same ole.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And still...nothing but empty boasts and a complete lack of evidence. Same ole same ole.

And now my prediction came true and yours did not. I guess that makes me the superior theoretician. Though that would not be saying much.

What is amazing is that justlookinla has nothing. In fact he has less than nothing since he does not understand the concept of evidence. I graciously offered to help him and he ran away. Knowledge is not his goal.

 

[Loudmouth]

What is amazing is that justlookinla has nothing. In fact he has less than nothing since he does not understand the concept of evidence. I graciously offered to help him and he ran away. Knowledge is not his goal.

Precisely. His goal is to do away with knowledge that he finds inconvenient.

 

[justlookinla]

Precisely. His goal is to do away with knowledge that he finds inconvenient.

What knowledge do I find inconvenient?

 

[Brownstoned]

Then you would need to explain how less fit individuals can outcompete fitter individuals.



Based on what evidence?



I have yet to find a creationist who can correctly describe thermodynamics. According to creationist arguments, you shouldn't be able to start out as a single cell and become a full grown human. Nurseries across the globe demonstrate that creationists are wrong.



It isn't.

Read the old testament. People lived much longer then that they do now. The last man to die before the flood for example. Devolution caused by a degradation of the environment we live in due to basic laws of thermodynamics.

Speed of light (possibly a cause of said degradation):
1657: Roemer 307,600. +/- 5400 km/sec
1738: 303,320 +/- 310 km/second
1861: 300,050 +/- 60 km/second
1875: Harvard 299,921. +/- 13 km/sec
1983: NBS (laser method): 299,792.4358 +/- 0.0003 km/sec

You dont have to be so hostile, let us just have a conversation.

 

[As I was saying]

Over 99% of all biologists accept the theory of evolution as being correct. That leaves your side with only a handful of nuts and kooks.

We would like to recommend the book In Six Days (why 50 scientists choose to believe in creation) edited by John F. Ashton. It is a collection of fifty essays, each written by a different scientist. Each author’s (impressive) academic credentials are listed at the beginning of his or her essay. They span a wide variety of academic disciplines. They aren’t all engineers! (But some are.)

The 50 essays are, on average, seven pages long. Each one gives the author’s reason for believing in the Biblical creation story rather than the theory of evolution. Nearly every essay has strong scientific arguments for creation and/or against evolution.

Some modern scientists who have accepted the biblical account of creation

Dr. William Arion, Biochemistry, Chemistry
Dr. Paul Ackerman, Psychologist
Dr. E. Theo Agard, Medical Physics
Dr. Steve Austin, Geologist
Dr. S.E. Aw, Biochemist
Dr. Thomas Barnes, Physicist
Dr. Geoff Barnard, Immunologist
Dr. Don Batten, Plant Physiologist
Dr. John Baumgardner, Electrical Engineering, Space Physicist, Geophysicist, expert in supercomputer modeling of plate tectonics
Dr. Jerry Bergman, Psychologist
Dr. Kimberly Berrine, Microbiology & Immunology
Prof. Vladimir Betina, Microbiology, Biochemistry & Biology
Dr. Andrew Bosanquet, Biology, Microbiology
Edward A. Boudreaux, Theoretical Chemistry
Dr. David R. Boylan, Chemical Engineer
Prof. Linn E. Carothers, Associate Professor of Statistics
Dr. Rob Carter, Marine Biology
Dr. David Catchpoole, Plant Physiology
Prof. Sung-Do Cha, Physics
Dr. Eugene F. Chaffin, Professor of Physics
Dr. Choong-Kuk Chang, Genetic Engineering
Prof. Jeun-Sik Chang, Aeronautical Engineering
Dr. Donald Chittick, Physical Chemist
Prof. Chung-Il Cho, Biology Education
Dr. John M. Cimbala, Mechanical Engineering
Dr. Harold Coffin, Palaeontologist
Timothy C. Coppess, M.S., Environmental Scientist
Dr. Bob Compton, DVM
Dr. Ken Cumming, Biologist
Dr. Jack W. Cuozzo, Dentist
Dr. William M. Curtis III, Th.D., Th.M., M.S., Aeronautics & Nuclear Physics
Dr. Malcolm Cutchins, Aerospace Engineering
Dr. Lionel Dahmer, Analytical Chemist
Dr. Raymond V. Damadian, M.D., Pioneer of magnetic resonance imaging
Dr. Chris Darnbrough, Biochemist
Dr. Nancy M. Darrall, Botany
Dr. Bryan Dawson, Mathematics
Dr. Douglas Dean, Biological Chemistry
Prof. Stephen W. Deckard, Assistant Professor of Education
Dr. David A. DeWitt, Biology, Biochemistry, Neuroscience
Dr. Don DeYoung, Astronomy, atmospheric physics, M.Div
Dr. Geoff Downes, Creationist Plant Physiologist
Dr. Ted Driggers, Operations research
Robert H. Eckel, Medical Research
Dr. André Eggen, Geneticist
Dr. Dudley Eirich, Molecular Biologist
Prof. Dennis L. Englin, Professor of Geophysics
Dr. Andrew J. Fabich, Microbiology
Prof. Danny Faulkner, Astronomy
Prof. Carl B. Fliermans, Professor of Biology
Prof. Dwain L. Ford, Organic Chemistry
Prof. Robert H. Franks, Associate Professor of Biology
Dr. Alan Galbraith, Watershed Science
Dr. Paul Giem, Medical Research
Dr. Maciej Giertych, Geneticist
Dr. Duane Gish, Biochemist
Dr. Werner Gitt, Information Scientist
Dr. Warwick Glover, General Surgeon
Dr. D.B. Gower, Biochemistry
Dr. Robin Greer, Chemist, History
Dr. Stephen Grocott, Chemist
Dr. Vicki Hagerman, DMV
Dr. Donald Hamann, Food Scientist
Dr. Barry Harker, Philosopher
Dr. Charles W. Harrison, Applied Physicist, Electromagnetics
Dr. John Hartnett, Physics
Dr. Mark Harwood, Engineering (satellite specialist)
Dr. George Hawke, Environmental Scientist
Dr. Margaret Helder, Science Editor, Botanist
Dr. Harold R. Henry, Engineer
Dr. Jonathan Henry, Astronomy
Dr. Joseph Henson, Entomologist


Despite such a wealth of intelligence, degrees, professorships, books and credibility, all these people are nuts and kooks according to subduction zone so let me ask you "How many degrees do you have? How many professorships have you held? How many books have you written on the subject? How many articles have you written that have been published? And which university awarded you your Doctorate?

I await your answer with baited breath and as it is obvious that you consider you know more than all these learned academics put together perhaps you can tell me how life began?

 

[As I was saying]

I have supplied evidence in the past, I have not supplied any recently. When I run into creationists that do not understand the nature of evidence, as you have shown that you don't, I then require them to learn what scientific evidence is. I even offer to help. I can help you to learn what is and what is not evidence. It is not that hard to learn. Claiming that there is no evidence when evidence has been presented to you many times only makes you look foolish.

But I have seen that most creationists are very very afraid to even learn what evidence is.

How many is most creationists? A bit of evidence would be most helpful and when I say evidence I don't mean your opinion.