Hi all,
So for me the big stumbling block with all religion is this idea of belief.
Okay so I don't consider belief a choice. It's more a graduation point you reach when you're convinced of something. Like if I start telling someone about some idea which seems inplausible and they claim not to believe it off the bat because it falls outside the bounds of reason for example, but as I explain more and more, they gradually reach a point whereby they are convinced by the data, reason, or the evidence . So it's not like they chose to believe but rather they eventually found the proposition credible enough to be convinced of it after a certain point.
An example I've heard is this; if someone has a loved one of yours hostage, with a gun to their head, and they tell you that you must believe a fish can ride a bicycle or they will shoot them in the head, no amount of mental gymnastics is going to allow you to do that. You cannot chose to believe that because there is no good reason to believe that. There is no parallel or precendence for it, nothing about the anatomy of a fish that convinces you he is capable of such a feat and it's nothing you've witnessed or seen happen, ever. So even when the stakes are high you can't force a belief.
So you can't force yourself to believe something although you can pretend to yourself and others you do. That being the case, if the case for Christianity or any other religion or any God in general is not convincing to your brain, not matter how convincing it is to others, why does this result in you being punished for it? How can God punish you for an involuntary thing like lack of belief? That of course assuming that it's 100% necessary for salvation, and the lack of it will result in damnation.
Never heard a good rebuttal to this? So, interested what people think.
So for me the big stumbling block with all religion is this idea of belief.
Okay so I don't consider belief a choice. It's more a graduation point you reach when you're convinced of something. Like if I start telling someone about some idea which seems inplausible and they claim not to believe it off the bat because it falls outside the bounds of reason for example, but as I explain more and more, they gradually reach a point whereby they are convinced by the data, reason, or the evidence . So it's not like they chose to believe but rather they eventually found the proposition credible enough to be convinced of it after a certain point.
An example I've heard is this; if someone has a loved one of yours hostage, with a gun to their head, and they tell you that you must believe a fish can ride a bicycle or they will shoot them in the head, no amount of mental gymnastics is going to allow you to do that. You cannot chose to believe that because there is no good reason to believe that. There is no parallel or precendence for it, nothing about the anatomy of a fish that convinces you he is capable of such a feat and it's nothing you've witnessed or seen happen, ever. So even when the stakes are high you can't force a belief.
So you can't force yourself to believe something although you can pretend to yourself and others you do. That being the case, if the case for Christianity or any other religion or any God in general is not convincing to your brain, not matter how convincing it is to others, why does this result in you being punished for it? How can God punish you for an involuntary thing like lack of belief? That of course assuming that it's 100% necessary for salvation, and the lack of it will result in damnation.
Never heard a good rebuttal to this? So, interested what people think.