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Baptists?

FireHeart

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I don't get the point of some of the denominations. I am a Christian and charismatic I suppose is a good reason to have it as a different denomination within Christianity but baptist? I went to a baptist church for the longest time, I wasn't what I would call baptist but I enjoyed being with these ppl because they were really good ppl and showed a great love for God and others.
 

miamited

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Hi FH,

I'm worse off than you. I don't get the point of any denominational titles. Such identifiers to some particular way of practicing faith within a fellowship that is meant to infer that said practice is different than another fellowship's practice always brings to my mind Paul's rebuke of the early believers who were playing the, 'I follow Paul, or I follow Cephas or I follow so-and-so' game of faith. However, Paul did relent in completely condemning all divisional practices, reasoning that there did have to be some way of showing who had God's approval.

But men are full of pride and puffed up. They think little of God's wisdom and much of their own. So, I do, on the one hand, understand such divisional practices when I consider that they are the work of men following their own ways and wisdom, but I do not understand how they think that by such practices they earn God's favor. I so often wonder to myself what a great transformative body we would be as a witness to the lost if rather than our meeting in so many different little gatherings with some on this block and some on that block and some in this building and some in that building, we would meet together as a single body in a neighborhood, suburb or small city of those who represent nothing more than God's children. After all, the 'church' to which the seven letters of the Revelation are addressed, is the 'church' of a city. Each letter is not addressed to the 'churches' in Purgamom or Thyatira, but to 'the church' in each city.

Of course, I imagine that we will hear in response that, "Well, if everyone had stayed with the RCC or the orthodox fellowships, then we would be much closer to a single body of believers." Sadly, though Paul did seem to detest divisions among the body, he did relent and did understand that there would have to be some divisions to show who had God's approval.

However, I digress from what seems to be your question, although you were not completely clear in asking it. You seem to have some confusion as to why a body of believers would identify themselves as baptist's. The body of believers known as baptist's came about because of the division among certain fellowships regarding 'what' is a true baptism as the Scriptures seem to explain the process and event. Of course today, many centuries after the initial division, a lot of that reason is lost on people and most people just go to a baptist fellowship for reasons similar to yours. However, it all began with disagreement among a body of believers as to what constitutes a valid baptism and even whether or not it is true that only those who believe and are baptized will be saved.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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twin1954

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I don't get the point of some of the denominations. I am a Christian and charismatic I suppose is a good reason to have it as a different denomination within Christianity but baptist? I went to a baptist church for the longest time, I wasn't what I would call baptist but I enjoyed being with these ppl because they were really good ppl and showed a great love for God and others.
Baptists have historically held to what are known as the Baptist Distinctives. You can find them in the sticky on Baptists.

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/baptist-statement-of-faith.7396057/
 
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PrincetonGuy

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I don't get the point of some of the denominations. I am a Christian and charismatic I suppose is a good reason to have it as a different denomination within Christianity but baptist? I went to a baptist church for the longest time, I wasn't what I would call baptist but I enjoyed being with these ppl because they were really good ppl and showed a great love for God and others.
“Baptist” is not a denomination—it is a category of Christians. There are well over 200 Baptist “denominations” in North America alone. However, since each local Baptist church is autonomous, the word “denominations” is not a precisely accurate term for these subcategories, but is used for convenience. Each of these Baptist “denominations” was formed for its own purposes, as were the multitude of Christian denominations other than Baptist. Many of them were formed to send and support missionaries since individual churches were very often unable financially to do so alone. Others were formed to build and establish seminaries for the same reason. Others were formed to meet other needs. Denominations and their names are helpful in identifying the beliefs and practices of individual congregations—which is important when one desires to find a local congregation where one is likely to be theologically and governmentally comfortable.
 
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miamited

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Hi PG,

Technically speaking you may be correct, but I think most people, when speaking of any 'baptist' fellowship are using the word just as they would speak of a Lutheran or Methodist fellowship. Those 'denominations' are also broken down into several sub-categories. I think pretty much all of the main 'denominations' of fellowships can be further broken down into different sub-groups. Even the Catholic organization has a couple of different 'kinds' of Catholic fellowships.

You are correct though that 'baptist' fellowships are generally autonomous, and personally, I find that to be a good thing in most ways, but it does always mean that anyone who is a part of an individual fellowship must be aware of what that particular fellowship believes and teaches as the truth. Although, in truth, even in the less autonomous denominations one can still find some fellowship that flies off in another direction because of the local leadership of the fellowship.

This explains why even some of the other 'denominations' are also split into sub-groups. The issue of same sex relations and women as pastors has split some denominations. John Shelby Spong is a good example of a fellowship that goes afield of its denominational teachings. He has always been something of a firebrand to the Episcopalian fellowships.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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nonaeroterraqueous

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I don't get the point of some of the denominations. I am a Christian and charismatic I suppose is a good reason to have it as a different denomination within Christianity but baptist? I went to a baptist church for the longest time, I wasn't what I would call baptist but I enjoyed being with these ppl because they were really good ppl and showed a great love for God and others.

I know there are others who can do a better job of explaining the origins of the Baptist denomination, but for my personal observation I would say that, unlike with most other denominations, the Baptist denomination exists by not establishing doctrine that would run into conflict with most other denominations. If I'm not mistaken, I think that the term, fundamentalism, was coined by Baptists, and it pretty much explains everything about their continued existence. The tenets of this group, similar to what you might hear being preached on any given Sunday, are usually such that no good Christian could disagree. It leaves a lot of room for debate about all remaining issues, and I find that this denomination, refreshingly, actually has a lot of healthy debate (some would say unhealthy, but I strongly disagree, and not just because I like the irony of debating about debate). It might explain why in my church only a small minority have a Baptist background, despite being a Baptist church. It might also explain why a higher percentage of the sermons stay on core issues, like salvation.

I prefer to have several denominations available, even if they all had exactly the same beliefs, if for no other reason than to keep another Catholic Church from forming among us.
 
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Goodbook

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Its just a name for a particular belief that all baptists have in common which is believers baptism. Which is in the bible. Baptist churches spring up anywhere there are believers. I suppose its sort of similar to congregationalist churches. Some baptists are open to freely sharing the gifts of the spirit, others frown on this and stick strictly to studying the bible.


The other denoms are named after men eg lutheran, wesley (methodist), or founded by man eg catholics have the pope, brethren was a breakaway church by darby and plymouth, theres cambellites, hutterites, millerites, etc. presybterians tend to follow a particular doctrine by john calvin and john knox.

Im just being general here. I dont have any aversion to saying 'i go to a baptist church' but i would call myself a christian first, not a baptist.
 
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mikedsjr

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Well, FireHeart, I attend a Baptist Church. I have Lutheran LCMS belief leanings, as well as a bit of Calvinistic leanings i haven't quite dropped, that don't typically sit well with Baptists, especially the emotionalistic Arminian type. But the rest of my family isn't quite ready to move to LCMS, so I'm fine. But I have clear distinct beliefs that counter standard Baptist teachings but I won't discuss those.

There are lines in the sand. There are good reasons to have distinct denominations. Peace is one. Some reasons for multiple denominations is we live in a free society. My church can't tell you what to believe. I can't anathematize you from the Baptist church. You could just go join a different Baptist church. I don't agree with Charismatic beliefs are for today in the least about the gift of the Spirit.

The reality is even those who condemn denominations typically have beliefs that are not centered in a solid understanding of certain subjects that divide the churches.

I don't get the point of some of the denominations. I am a Christian and charismatic I suppose is a good reason to have it as a different denomination within Christianity but baptist? I went to a baptist church for the longest time, I wasn't what I would call baptist but I enjoyed being with these ppl because they were really good ppl and showed a great love for God and others.
 
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nonaeroterraqueous

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...as well as a bit of Calvinistic leanings i haven't quite dropped, that don't typically sit well with Baptists, especially the emotionalistic Arminian type.

Well, that's a contentious one among Baptists. Almost the only Calvinists I've ever known were Baptist, so I wouldn't consider the denomination to be principally Arminian, though the Arminians would like to think so. Even this forum defines the denomination as having both Calvinistic and Arminian members, so I don't think it's fair to define Baptists as being opposed to Calvinism, even though many of them are.
 
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classicalhero

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When my Pastor is pushed about this issue, he would we are mild Calvinists. But the problem is that both sides are too far to the extreme. One side makes it all God's work and one side makes it all man's work. The Bible says God's call is open to all but we must accept that call, so that position is somewhere in the middle of the issue. Calvinists say the call is irresistible, but we say that man has a choice in whether to accept the call and as a result it is our duty to preach the Gospel to every creature.
 
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nonaeroterraqueous

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Calvinists say the call is irresistible, but we say that man has a choice in whether to accept the call and as a result it is our duty to preach the Gospel to every creature.

Not meaning to turn this into yet another heated debate on Calvinism, but I just wanted to clarify. Calvinists hold both the position that the call is irresistible and that man has a choice whether to accept. Their rejection of free will does not mean the rejection of will. It means the rejection of will or anything lying beyond the omnipotence and omniscience of God, that God is not less than absolutely powerful in anything at all. The fact that it's a paradox means that true Calvinism is not at one extreme, with Arminianism at the other. The opposite of Arminianism would be a belief that humans are mere automatons, which is different than determinism, which is the essence of Calvinism. Any determinist of any kind still believes that man has a choice and that the words of other people play a role in that choice. Hence, nothing negates the need to preach the Gospel, even the belief that God has everything under control.
 
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FreeinChrist

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I know there are others who can do a better job of explaining the origins of the Baptist denomination, but for my personal observation I would say that, unlike with most other denominations, the Baptist denomination exists by not establishing doctrine that would run into conflict with most other denominations. If I'm not mistaken, I think that the term, fundamentalism, was coined by Baptists, and it pretty much explains everything about their continued existence. The tenets of this group, similar to what you might hear being preached on any given Sunday, are usually such that no good Christian could disagree. It leaves a lot of room for debate about all remaining issues, and I find that this denomination, refreshingly, actually has a lot of healthy debate (some would say unhealthy, but I strongly disagree, and not just because I like the irony of debating about debate). It might explain why in my church only a small minority have a Baptist background, despite being a Baptist church. It might also explain why a higher percentage of the sermons stay on core issues, like salvation.

I prefer to have several denominations available, even if they all had exactly the same beliefs, if for no other reason than to keep another Catholic Church from forming among us.

I don't think you are presenting Baptists quite right at all. Baptists did and do embrace beliefs different from other Christians. The belief in believers baptism varies with many Christian groups who practice infant baptism. The priesthood of believers belief varies from churches like the Orthodox churches, Catholic, Old Catholic, Episcopalian and others. Believing the Lord's supper is memorial only is another point of contention.

There are good Christians who believe differently on those points from Baptists, though, imho, Baptists are the most correct in belief. Those differences led to persecution of the General and Particular Baptists several hundred years ago. But the thing is, good Christians do disagree - and Baptists had to stand strong for their beliefs and were not wishy-washy in regards to their beliefs.
 
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twin1954

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When my Pastor is pushed about this issue, he would we are mild Calvinists. But the problem is that both sides are too far to the extreme. One side makes it all God's work and one side makes it all man's work. The Bible says God's call is open to all but we must accept that call, so that position is somewhere in the middle of the issue. Calvinists say the call is irresistible, but we say that man has a choice in whether to accept the call and as a result it is our duty to preach the Gospel to every creature.
Think a moment about what you said in this post. If what you say is true then man saves himself by accepting. That is the only logical conclusion of such a statement.
 
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classicalhero

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Think a moment about what you said in this post. If what you say is true then man saves himself by accepting. That is the only logical conclusion of such a statement.
Man has to accept God call of salvation. God's call isn't irresistible as the Calvinist say. We have a responsibility to either accept or reject the call. Salvation is pretty simple and yet both sides of the debate complicate the issue.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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But the problem is that both sides are too far to the extreme. One side makes it all God's work and one side makes it all man's work.
The doctrines that are known today as the “five points of Calvinism” were deduced and introduced into the Church by John Calvin and his cronies during the early years of the Reformation. In the churches where they were accepted, they replaced five fundamental biblical truths that were taught by the Fathers of the Church whom God had used to establish the New Testament Canon and the doctrine of the Trinity. These five fundamental biblical truths continued to be preached and taught through Christendom until they were supplanted in some churches by Calvinism. NONE of theses five fundamental biblical truths so much as hinted that we are saved by anything other than grace through faith. Theses five fundamental biblical truths are the very heart of Arminian theology. Our earliest Baptist churches were Arminian in their teaching, but today most Baptist churches teach one or more of the “five points of Calvinism.”
 
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FreeinChrist

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I don't get the point of some of the denominations. I am a Christian and charismatic I suppose is a good reason to have it as a different denomination within Christianity but baptist? I went to a baptist church for the longest time, I wasn't what I would call baptist but I enjoyed being with these ppl because they were really good ppl and showed a great love for God and others.
Is there a specific question you have about Baptists?
 
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PrincetonGuy

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Think a moment about what you said in this post. If what you say is true then man saves himself by accepting. That is the only logical conclusion of such a statement.
Since our Baptist churches teach that we are saved by grace through faith, the logical conclusion is that God gives us the grace to believe and accept the gospel, but some men, on their own strength, choose to reject the gospel. Logically, the alternative is that men are nothing but preprogrammed robots and the biblical history of man from his creation to the present is utterly false because there is no such thing as temptation, obedience, or sin.
 
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mikedsjr

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Well, that's a contentious one among Baptists. Almost the only Calvinists I've ever known were Baptist, so I wouldn't consider the denomination to be principally Arminian, though the Arminians would like to think so. Even this forum defines the denomination as having both Calvinistic and Arminian members, so I don't think it's fair to define Baptists as being opposed to Calvinism, even though many of them are.
But my statement was much more than just about Calvinism vs Arminian. But Arminians do tend to lean more on feelings, how the holy spirit is moving in them, or about how a portion of a verse touches them and speaks to them. This speaks nothing of what the beliefs stand for, except to show Arminians can follow mystical experiences. They ask "how does this verse speak to you?" or give you "5 steps to a better marriage" yet Scripture says nothing on these points.
 
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