How does one come to believe something?

[Wayne R]

Just speaking to philosophy as the Bible does.

You have a right to your own opinion as well.

I think I know what you're saying, but let me put it into perspective. There is Christian philosophy, and your post was actually an exercise of philosophy. Philosophy itself is not evil. Like anything else, how it is approached is the issue. Labeling “philosophy” evil is like labeling “religion” evil. Neither is true, yet both are abused. Philosophical discussion is good in the context of “The Six Blind Men And The Elephant” if the purpose is to reach a greater understanding of truth as each one sees it, but discussion and arguing are not the same. Positive discussion in the “servant/student” context comes out of a desire to learn and share what's known. “Arguing” in the “master/teacher” context is another matter. I will discuss truth with those willing to discuss, but if that discussion results in exposing those only wishing to argue and reveal the bigotry of their thinking, truth is again revealed.

Jesus taught and demonstrated Christian philosophy and, of course. much more. These are definitions of philosophy:

: the study of ideas about knowledge, truth, the nature and meaning of life, etc.

: a particular set of ideas about knowledge, truth, the nature and meaning of life, etc.

: a set of ideas about how to do something or how to live

I understand what you are saying because I understand Christian philosophy, but what you wrote did not come out the way you meant it to I'm sure.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Are you now unclean and defiled, since you participated in these conversations ?

Is taking the username of a Greek goddess okie dokie ?

hahahaha. That username is from my pagan days and is my alias online, and is too difficult to change at this point. I dislike it now though, and it is a sin to speak of other gods.

I did not philosophize, only spake against it, quoting the Bible. So, no, I do not feel defiled.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I think I know what you're saying, but let me put it into perspective. There is Christian philosophy, and your post was actually an exercise of philosophy. Philosophy itself is not evil. Like anything else, how it is approached is the issue. Labeling “philosophy” evil is like labeling “religion” evil. Neither is true, yet both are abused. Philosophical discussion is good in the context of “The Six Blind Men And The Elephant” if the purpose is to reach a greater understanding of truth as each one sees it, but discussion and arguing are not the same. Positive discussion in the “servant/student” context comes out of a desire to learn and share what's known. “Arguing” in the “master/teacher” context is another matter. I will discuss truth with those willing to discuss, but if that discussion results in exposing those only wishing to argue and reveal the bigotry of their thinking, truth is again revealed.

Jesus taught and demonstrated Christian philosophy and, of course. much more. These are definitions of philosophy:

: the study of ideas about knowledge, truth, the nature and meaning of life, etc.

: a particular set of ideas about knowledge, truth, the nature and meaning of life, etc.

: a set of ideas about how to do something or how to live

I understand what you are saying because I understand Christian philosophy, but what you wrote did not come out the way you meant it to I'm sure.

Okay, thank you for responding. I agree with you that discussion is awesome and necessary. Entreaty and debate can occur too I believe in a healthy environment with other Christians who truly seek the truth.

I was speaking specifically to the OP in this case, in the way this OP was worded. A syllogism to me is a term used in philosophy. I prefer to think like a Hebrew and just wanted to call attention to others about how we don't even realize that when we philosophize or when we use scientific terms, we are using ideas that are not Hebraic in nature, and we are asserting reason into a realm that is mostly irrational, and 'reason' functions by different rules than God's word does. We have different world views, basically.

Since philosophy is "the rational investigation of the truths and principles of being, knowledge, or conduct" to apply philosophy to the discussions of Christianity necessarily is, from the get-go, arguing about whether God and Godliness are true and trying to obtain their essence from logical principles, which can never be. Because first and foremost being a Christian means having faith in Jesus Christ and faith cannot be argued upon. You must be called to it, and believe it inside you.

This is not philosophizing to me. It is discussing and sharing perspectives. Not trying to prove something out.

 

[TillICollapse]

hahahaha. That username is from my pagan days and is my alias online, and is too difficult to change at this point. I dislike it now though, and it is a sin to speak of other gods.

I did not philosophize, only spake against it, quoting the Bible. So, no, I do not feel defiled.

Ah. I was speaking to your statement of this:

"We cannot and should not argue the existence of God or anything Godly with those who serve worldly gods". I wasn't sure if attaching the name of Aphrodite to all your statements counted.

Okay, thank you for responding. I agree with you that discussion is awesome and necessary. Entreaty and debate can occur too I believe in a healthy environment with other Christians who truly seek the truth.

I was speaking specifically to the OP in this case, in the way this OP was worded. A syllogism to me is a term used in philosophy. I prefer to think like a Hebrew and just wanted to call attention to others about how we don't even realize that when we philosophize or when we use scientific terms, we are using ideas that are not Hebraic in nature, and we are asserting reason into a realm that is mostly irrational, and 'reason' functions by different rules than God's word does. We have different world views, basically.

Since philosophy is "the rational investigation of the truths and principles of being, knowledge, or conduct" to apply philosophy to the discussions of Christianity necessarily is, from the get-go, arguing about whether God and Godliness are true and trying to obtain their essence from logical principles, which can never be. Because first and foremost being a Christian means having faith in Jesus Christ and faith cannot be argued upon. You must be called to it, and believe it inside you.

This is not philosophizing to me. It is discussing and sharing perspectives. Not trying to prove something out.

How does a Hebrew think ?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Okay, thank you for responding. I agree with you that discussion is awesome and necessary. Entreaty and debate can occur too I believe in a healthy environment with other Christians who truly seek the truth.

I was speaking specifically to the OP in this case, in the way this OP was worded. A syllogism to me is a term used in philosophy. I prefer to think like a Hebrew and just wanted to call attention to others about how we don't even realize that when we philosophize or when we use scientific terms, we are using ideas that are not Hebraic in nature, and we are asserting reason into a realm that is mostly irrational, and 'reason' functions by different rules than God's word does. We have different world views, basically.

Could you elaborate further on this point? Are you suggesting that if reason indicates that a doctrine you believe is wrong, you will believe it anyway? If so, why? Are you saying that faith is, by nature, irrational?

 

[KCfromNC]

Speaking of hypocrisy, do you not conduct yourself in the same manner? Do you accept at face value those that claim to have seen extraterrestrial spacecraft? That also claim to have been abducted by those aliens? Or, a have seen Bigfoot? The Loch Ness monster?

Quiet you! The "but we can't really know what's really real therefore anything is possible" is only supposed to lead to conclusion we already have an emotional attachment to.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Ah. I was speaking to your statement of this:

"We cannot and should not argue the existence of God or anything Godly with those who serve worldly gods". I wasn't sure if attaching the name of Aphrodite to all your statements counted.

How does a Hebrew think ?

A Hebrew thinks of God first and foremost. A Hebrew thinks in simple ways because God's mission for us is simple: to love. A Hebrew thinks in the ways of God, in the context of what He has generously given us, and does not need to make up new ways to think or be, as men of the world, or ground, do. His thoughts are lofty, always reaching into the heavens where God resides, to be with God, here, where we reside.

 

[Isaacsname]

Interesting. I've had some, seen others and know of still others. What was yours?

something happened to me one night, about 3 and a half years ago. I was dying from brain cancer and something happened to me one night

I was given a crown and a new life

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Could you elaborate further on this point? Are you suggesting that if reason indicates that a doctrine you believe is wrong, you will believe it anyway? If so, why? Are you saying that faith is, by nature, irrational?

The bottom line is that philosophy seeks to find truth and has certain ways to argue to prove points.

Christians do not need to bother with this mind-science because since Jesus came we know the way, the truth, and the life is in Him solely!

Now it's just a matter of preaching the Gospel. And the guidelines about that are not to debate it and argue it, but to share it with those with eyes to see and ears to hear, those who are called by God.

 

[bhsmte]

The bottom line is that philosophy seeks to find truth and has certain ways to argue to prove points.

Christians do not need to bother with this mind-science because since Jesus came we know the way, the truth, and the life is in Him solely!

Now it's just a matter of preaching the Gospel. And the guidelines about that are not to debate it and argue it, but to share it with those with eyes to see and ears to hear, those who are called by God.

It sounds then that in your mind, the doctrine of Christianity should never be questioned, for fear this questioning may be a threat.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

It sounds then that in your mind, the doctrine of Christianity should never be questioned, for fear this questioning may be a threat.

I already spend over 20 years questioning, and it led me on a convoluted, winding, discontented path to death.

Once you find the beautiful answer, you have no desire to question anymore!

 

[Archaeopteryx]

The bottom line is that philosophy seeks to find truth and has certain ways to argue to prove points.

Isn't seeking truth a worthwhile pursuit?

Christians do not need to bother with this mind-science because since Jesus came we know the way, the truth, and the life is in Him solely!

Then you have nothing to lose by philosophising.

 

[bhsmte]

I already spend over 20 years questioning, and it led me on a convoluted, winding, discontented path to death.

Once you find the beautiful answer, you have no desire to question anymore!

It sounds as though you don't want other people using philosophy to question their faith though.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

It sounds as though you don't want other people using philosophy to question their faith though.

How will a rational reasoning provide proof of God? God transcends all man's pursuits, even its self-righteous mind-science, Philosophy.

If you question, open the Bible and read. Or pray. Seek and you shall find. Knock and the door will be opened.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

How will a rational reasoning provide proof of God? God transcends all man's pursuits, even its self-righteous mind-science, Philosophy.

Self-righteous? Why do you think it is self-righteous to critically examine religious claims?

 

[bhsmte]

How will a rational reasoning provide proof of God? God transcends all man's pursuits, even its self-righteous mind-science, Philosophy.

If you question, open the Bible and read. Or pray. Seek and you shall find. Knock and the door will be opened.

I didn't say rational reasoning will provide proof of a God. It is quite clear, many have tried to and they have failed.

What I was discussing was the fact that you seem to recommend others not use philosophy in any form regarding their faith and this means basically stop thinking rationally in regards to their faith and keep the blinders on.

While some can do this, others can't and they have a desire to investigate, which is why many eventually leave their faith, because they can't fool themselves into believing it any longer.

 

[bhsmte]

How will a rational reasoning provide proof of God? God transcends all man's pursuits, even its self-righteous mind-science, Philosophy.

If you question, open the Bible and read. Or pray. Seek and you shall find. Knock and the door will be opened.

I was a Christian for 40 years and it happened to be a thorough investigation of the NT, that started me to question my faith.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Self-righteous? Why do you think it is self-righteous to critically examine claims, such as the claims of religion?

Because the "Wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, 'He catches the wise in their own craftiness'; and again, 'The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.' Therefore let no one glory in men." ~1 Corinthians 3:19-21

Philosophy is vanity. It puffs men up to god status. Look at how the world views Aristotle, Plato, and Socrates.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I didn't say rational reasoning will provide proof of a God. It is quite clear, many have tried to and they have failed.

What I was discussing was the fact that you seem to recommend others not use philosophy in any form regarding their faith and this means basically stop thinking rationally in regards to their faith and keep the blinders on.

While some can do this, others can't and they have a desire to investigate, which is why many eventually leave their faith, because they can't fool themselves into believing it any longer.

A perfect example of how investigative science and the mind can lead one easily astray.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I was a Christian for 40 years and it happened to be a thorough investigation of the NT, that started me to question my faith.

I'm sorry. God is likely calling you back.

Shalom Shabbat~