If the beginnings of Genesis aren't literally true, then what way are they true?

[Beaker]

Don't forget matthew 23:34 christ predicts his return in the lifetime of his original followers, a view supported for example by by Paul. Christianity is still waiting. All of the end time prophecies are dusted off whenever society is in upheavel, for example 1640s England, the civil war.

God has no time limits. We are still in the days of Christ's followers albeit in OUR time 2000 years later, BUT time is limitless with God. A day is like a million years and a million years like a day. He can see the full picture, while we can only see one piece of the jig-saw.

 

[HitchSlap]

The promise of HIS return which is getting closer by the day.

So I've heard.

 

[paulm50]

I'm saying they are different perspectives of the same events. Once you start from
that premise, then they all tell the same story.

There is no logical scenario where the stories would end up different. If they were
exactly the same, it would just be the same words, written 4 times.

Gospel Contradictions:

If you are not sharing what you know, then you don't know what you are sharing. So why should I care?

The difference between know and learn. Is you can only know the bible, in science you can learn everyday. One is finite, the other keeps growing.

Hypothesis --> Evidence fitted --> Theory.

I didn't say science. I said evolution theory.

With evolution we learn something every day. I learned yesterday some of the language William Tyndall used wasn't a correct translation from the original Hebrew.

Six Hebrew Words Make All the Difference

The Days of Genesis.

Just two sites, there are more and see how many have the same translation. That's the difference between know and learn.

Evolution isn't a theory any more. Creation is the invention of a minor tribe, surrounding by bigger dogs, trying to inflate it's own importance.

 

[paulm50]

God has no time limits. We are still in the days of Christ's followers albeit in OUR time 2000 years later, BUT time is limitless with God. A day is like a million years and a million years like a day. He can see the full picture, while we can only see one piece of the jig-saw.

Not what Jesus said. You're free to come back to tell me if those quotes from the bible are wrong. Not free to tell me what you or anyone else thinks he meant. You're stuck with the words of the bible.

Some will weave into those words, anything they can to fit their hypothesis.

As for his return, Armageddon, the End of Days, Heaven, Hell, etc. All myth and not a shred of evidence.

 

[morse86]

Not what Jesus said. You're free to come back to tell me if those quotes from the bible are wrong. Not free to tell me what you or anyone else thinks he meant. You're stuck with the words of the bible.

As for his return, Armageddon, the End of Days, Heaven, Hell, etc. All myth and not a shred of evidence.

How about you quote the word of God, the King James bible for once instead of quoting philosophers of the world!?!?!? The author of that article is a FOOL. How can the natural man understand the things of God?

 

[paulm50]

How about you quote the word of God, the King James bible for once instead of quoting philosophers of the world!?!?!? The author of that article is a FOOL. How can the natural man understand the things of God?

The King James Bible isn't the word of god. Regarding Genesis, the word of god was in Hebrew. However.

Zechariah 9:10-13
10 I will take away the chariots from Ephraim and the war-horses from Jerusalem, and the battle bow will be broken. He will proclaim peace to the nations. His rule will extend from sea to sea and from the River to the ends of the earth.
11 As for you, because of the blood of my covenant with you, I will free your prisoners from the waterless pit.
12 Return to your fortress,O prisoners of hope; even now I announce that I will restore twice as much to you.
13 I will bend Judah as I bend my bow and fill it with Ephraim. I will rouse your sons, O Zion, against your sons, O Greece, and make you like a warrior's sword. False.

John 14:13-14
13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father.
14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.False.

Luke 23:43
43Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." False.

Matthew 24:34
34I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. False.

Did I use the the word of god this time?

I agree how can the natural man understand the things of God? Without the ability of seeing and talking to him, while having proof it is god. Instead of just writing down things that pop into his head.

 

[morse86]

Hebrew? Do you mean a dead language for more than 2000 years? Do you know the diferences between old english and modern english? That is in a span of less than 500 years. Try now for 2000 years where nobody spoke it (YES NOBODY....I don't care what wicked world "source" you find that states 1 person speaking it).

 

[lasthero]

Hebrew? Do you mean a dead language for more than 2000 years? Do you know the diferences between old english and modern english? That is in a span of less than 500 years. Try now for 2000 years where nobody spoke it (YES NOBODY....I don't care what wicked world "source" you find that states 1 person speaking it).

How do you know that NOBODY spoke it? How could you possibly know that?

 

[paulm50]

Hebrew? Do you mean a dead language for more than 2000 years? Do you know the diferences between old english and modern english? That is in a span of less than 500 years. Try now for 2000 years where nobody spoke it (YES NOBODY....I don't care what wicked world "source" you find that states 1 person speaking it).

Yes the dead language it was written in.

Israel speaks Hebrew.

 

[Astropolis]

My personal take on this is that G1/G2 is a poem about creation. It contains information from the strict scientific truth, it has to because the same God created the science and inspired the poem. It also contains some dead giveaways that it's intended to be read as a poem. It has a parallelism to its structure, which makes me think it is intended to be recited. It also has days before the coming of the sun.
Because it only contains part of the technical information I think it's an unjustifiable move to try to deduce strict scientific information from the G1/G2 account.
The point is that being a poem it is a true statement of the poet's emotional reaction to the idea of creation. However being a poem that's thousands of years old we get it shorn of its cultural context, and too easily force it into the wrong category.

To explain this I hope you'll indulge my quoting from my own Science Fiction:


Hours later she began to wander into a bleary, partial wakefulness. She'd tried to sleep in an acceleration seat—something almost impossible to do comfortably. She winced as she realised what had happened—she'd tried to turn over in her sleep, in a seat designed to hold the occupant firmly in one position with their back to the thrust line—and the seat, with its harness, had won.

She stretched, trying to ease the stiffness, and her left hand caught the stick, deflecting it fully forwards.

The lurch as the gyros kicked in, pitching the ship nose down in response to her unplanned command, jerked her rudely and fully awake.

As the ship slowly turned, the entire span of the galaxy came into view, filling the glass from edge to edge, but now she was fifteen thousand light years above the great disk, and seeing the spiral arms laid out in their majesty as a vast diamond tapestry in front of her.

The endless curving arches of stars burned on, ageless and silent in the darkness, returning to the unwinking glory of the complex, terrible core. Somewhere, out there, in that stark, cold beauty was a region whose diameter was barely one hundredth of the whole galaxy, which was everything that every human had known. Out there, in a space that she could blot out with her thumb, on five hundred worlds, every man, woman and child, save her, lived and died, and rejoiced and mourned, and fought and made peace. And still the awful majesty of the stars burned on, tearing her soul apart with their unchanging loveliness, in the depths of their silence speaking the truths she couldn't bear to hear.

She'd been running, running from herself. She'd lost her temper with Alan, Alan was dead, and there was nobody else to blame. Life wasn't a game any more.

That—and nothing else—was what she'd to learn to live with, the knowledge she'd take to bed every night, the truth that she'd wake up with each morning.

She could run if she chose, she could try to hide—but the stars would always be there to remind her. Or she could turn back and, one day at a time, learn to live again.

She sat for long minutes, drinking in the beauty of the stars, filling her soul to overflowing with their silent joy. Then she shook her head.

‘I can run from myself,’ she said out loud, ‘but I can't run from the stars—not any more.’

Now that's not intended to be a strict scientific description of the Milky Way, but it is informed by my knowledge of astronomy. In fact you'll spot that I have taken one liberty with the truth, the galaxy is not "unchanging", but on the time scale that Jane is using it doesn't appear to change.
The point is that if a modern writer can write a poetic description of something, and know it to be distinct from a strictly factual one, then surely the authors of G1/G2 could do the same.

 

[Doveaman]

The himalayas say hello.

What's your point?

Rewriting geology to suit your conclusion is not science.

Who said anything about science. We are talking history as recorded in Genesis.

The biblical flood story is clearly plagirising gilgamesh an account of a flood predating the bible by 600 years.

That's just an opinion. You are entitled to one.

Just one more edample of flood myths thatcdevelop around flood plains such as mesopotamia, the nile, china.

I'm sure they were many other written accounts of Noah's flood, some that became myths. Noah would not have been the only one who knew about the flood, but he would have been the only one who knew all the details. He was there from start to finish. That's why the biblical version of events is more reliable.

 

[Beaker]

Not what Jesus said. You're free to come back to tell me if those quotes from the bible are wrong. Not free to tell me what you or anyone else thinks he meant. You're stuck with the words of the bible.

Some will weave into those words, anything they can to fit their hypothesis.

As for his return, Armageddon, the End of Days, Heaven, Hell, etc. All myth and not a shred of evidence.

And THAT is YOUR choice, BUT, when you pass from this earth, as we ALL will do, unless the Rapture come first, you WILL realise the error of your ways. Hope you realise it sooner, rather than later.

 

[HitchSlap]

And THAT is YOUR choice, BUT, when you pass from this earth, as we ALL will do, unless the Rapture come first, you WILL realise the error of your ways. Hope you realise it sooner, rather than later.

Typical cargo cult rhetoric.

 

[Beaker]

Typical cargo cult rhetoric.

NOT in MY book, It's the TRUTH from the INSPIRED Word of God.

 

[Goonie]

What's your point?
Who said anything about science. We are talking history as recorded in Genesis.

That's just an opinion. You are entitled to one.

I'm sure they were many other written accounts of Noah's flood, some that became myths. Noah would not have been the only one who knew about the flood, but he would have been the only one who knew all the details. He was there from start to finish. That's why the biblical version of events is more reliable.

What's your point?
Who said anything about science. We are talking history as recorded in Genesis.

That's just an opinion. You are entitled to one.

I'm sure they were many other written accounts of Noah's flood, some that became myths. Noah would not have been the only one who knew about the flood, but he would have been the only one who knew all the details. He was there from start to finish. That's why the biblical version of events is more reliable.

No evidence they are talking about the same flood. Flood plains have floods, storys get exaggerated, then come myths. You do not get flood myths from mountainous areas, you getvthem with flood plains.

 

[HitchSlap]

NOT in MY book, It's the TRUTH from the INSPIRED Word of God.

If you're talking about the bible, it's largely fiction, very little historical significance, full of contradictions, exaggerations and outright lies, replete with forgeries written by anonymous authors.
Hardly the handiwork of any god/s.

 

[SkyWriting]

Gospel Contradictions:

There is no logical explanation for why a "discrepancy" would exist.
Two views or versions of the facts add credibility to the events.

If you ask any two people about something that happened, if the versions
are TOO SIMILAR then you know that were coached as to what to say
and how to say it.

Slightly differing versions of the same events add credibility. It is consistent
with independent observers and trains of thought.

Yes, people count generations differently. The FACT that generations
are counted differently is well documented, as are historical reasons.

 

[TLK Valentine]

There is no logical explanation for why a "discrepancy" would exist.
Two views or versions of the facts add credibility to the events.

So what's the tipping point? How many discrepancies does it take to stop adding credibility and start subtracting credibility?

 

[Beaker]

If you're talking about the bible, it's largely fiction, very little historical significance, full of contradictions, exaggerations and outright lies, replete with forgeries written by anonymous authors.
Hardly the handiwork of any god/s.

So if you don't believe the Bible, WHAT are you doing participating on a CHRISTIAN forum? Are you only here to stir up trouble? If so I WILL be blocking you. Goodbye.

 

[Isaacsname]

Guess we'll see when Jesus gets back