-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
How does one come to believe something?
- Thread starter Joshua260
- Start date
CONCLUSION -- to ALL, but esp. to Davian/seeker-atheist, to Chany/ humanist-atheist and to honest atheists lumberjohn & bhsmte (and others) -- enough of this nonsense.
You can't and/or refuse to answer my simple questions or even the topic "How does one come to believe something?" because you can't admit, whether you like it, or believe it, or not that, YES, "God is the best, the most positive, choice & solution for America!" And, that one comes to believe something (the topic) by being open-minded and accepting the concept of a God and the higher accountability. This is good for both the individual & our society. Obvious, pragmatic, facts don't need scientific proof!
These facts, yes "facts", have been true in our past, our American tradition, and even today -- as we lose the practice, and see the results! It is obvious to the world, and believing Americans, that this belief is, and has been, the foundation of our strength! I am tired of you atheists, esp. anti-theists, and such negative spinners, trying to convince gullible Americans differently by spinning your science facts before us! ;-( These scientific facts have NOTHING to do with the more important half of our humanity -- our spiritual side. And, by far, most Americans belief & accept this! So, to quote Jesus "Be gone Satan"!
Pragmatically, whether God exists or not, I know that this positive God-concept conclusion goes against your self serving negative perspective. This is why you can only tear down things & ideas w/o any real solutions to our social issues. Rather, this is just for your own sake of "self righteousness". It is pointless to argue w such negative influences. There is too much positive work that needs to been done!
You can't and/or refuse to answer my simple questions or even the topic "How does one come to believe something?" because you can't admit, whether you like it, or believe it, or not that, YES, "God is the best, the most positive, choice & solution for America!" And, that one comes to believe something (the topic) by being open-minded and accepting the concept of a God and the higher accountability. This is good for both the individual & our society. Obvious, pragmatic, facts don't need scientific proof!
These facts, yes "facts", have been true in our past, our American tradition, and even today -- as we lose the practice, and see the results! It is obvious to the world, and believing Americans, that this belief is, and has been, the foundation of our strength! I am tired of you atheists, esp. anti-theists, and such negative spinners, trying to convince gullible Americans differently by spinning your science facts before us! ;-( These scientific facts have NOTHING to do with the more important half of our humanity -- our spiritual side. And, by far, most Americans belief & accept this! So, to quote Jesus "Be gone Satan"!
Pragmatically, whether God exists or not, I know that this positive God-concept conclusion goes against your self serving negative perspective. This is why you can only tear down things & ideas w/o any real solutions to our social issues. Rather, this is just for your own sake of "self righteousness". It is pointless to argue w such negative influences. There is too much positive work that needs to been done!
Upvote
0
=== RESP: Just a cop-out! To your Q, very easy, I could answer "yes" or "no". And, so could you on my Q!
Upvote
0
RESP: I do. I collect many things. So, why are you so stubborn -- or afraid to admit that you must agree w me about the pragmatic God?
Upvote
0
REPLY: Well, if this works, then "yes". But, most Americans have their own experience & foundation to come to the same conclusions that I do. So, what don't you like?
Upvote
0
REPLY: Nope, no "must". But, if this works, then "yes". However, most Americans have their own experience & foundation to come to the same conclusions that I do. So, what don't you like about my conclusion -- specifically?
Upvote
0
It doesn't.
Is "because we said so!" particularly different from "because I said so!"?
You're saying I should believe in your God just because you say so?
Upvote
0
Davian
fallible
- May 30, 2011
- 14,100
- 1,181
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Ignostic
- Marital Status
- Married
I don't collect stamps. I don't believe in gods. I don't believe in leprechauns.
What I don't do does not inform my values and what I respect. That is why I do not identify as an atheist - and why your question was faulty - because that label groups people by what they are not.
As for your religion, is it a good thing? I am not sure which particular religion you adhere to, but has religion been good to the USA? Has it kept crime in check? The prison population low? Has it kept education strong and the children competitive on a world level? Is the population healthy in comparison to more secular nations? It is my impression that it has not.
But, if it gives you comfort in your time of need, you are welcome to it.
Upvote
0
Chany
Uncertain Absurdist
- Nov 29, 2011
- 6,428
- 228
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Agnostic
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Others
You have no notion of my morality, epistemology, and metaphysics beyond what my faith signature tells you. I literally just asked for an example. You pointed out to me three posts. I was going to point out flaws in the third one, but, before I do, I want to make something clear: do not assume my absence or silence from a thread means surrender and never put words in my mouth. I, believe it or not, have a life that involves around 6-8 hours of research a day and I do not always feel like coming on here and debating people, nor do I find it worth my time to try and debate people they are not really responding to me.
My response is simply this:
Opiates might make a person feel good, but a drugged-up person cannot take control of the world in front of them.
I was going to go into detail, but, honestly, I do not like talking to people who put words in my mouth.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
In a previous post you wrote: “...the only facts are scientific facts.”
And that is their dilemma, their limitations in thinking, their “fish bowl”! It is the most limited mind that adopts the thinking: “Nothing exists that cannot be proven to me in terms I can relate to.” Many confine themselves to “fish bowls” of their own making, often hypocritically so. They adopt and practice parallel belief systems to the “religious” in many ways, yet often deny they doing so, perhaps not even realizing the fact. They can even become “religious” in their denial and fanatical in defending their stand. By doing so they only exhibit and confirm the confines of their “fish bowl”. Discussion is good, but debate with such is pointless. Why attempt to teach calculus to those who cannot think past algebra? “Prove it to me in terms I can relate to” and “the burden of proof is on you” have no meaning. “Let them alone...”, they have no point of reference to judge by.
Equal to your question of why people believe a matter is the question of why they do not believe what others know to be true. “The Six Blind Men And The Elephant”. You and I are very familiar with the terms like “spiritually minded” because we are aware of the reality of spirit. It's nothing "myetic" of foriegn, but a daily lifestyle. The parallel analogy of spirit to dark matter and energy and reasons for accepting/rejecting the factual matter of the two is a subject of testing whether someone is willing to discuss and understand, or just argue. I've done this many times and it's very effective. The one who accepts the existence of dark matter/energy, the essence of which cannot be defined, based on the report of someone reporting the evidence of their effect, does in fact believe the unknowable and does so as a matter of faith in the report and the one who gives it. It is “acceptance by faith” in the existence of the intangible. The evidence of dark matter & energy also proves the point that science itself is locked in a “fish bowl”, only aware of 4% of the universe. 96% is an “ocean of whales” completely unfamiliar to the “fish bowl”."Prove it to me in terms I can understand" is likew saying "stuff your whale into my fish bowl". No, expand your thinking beyond the confines of your fish bowl.
Another point is interpretation of evidence. I respect Dr. Hawking as possibly the finest scientific mind alive today. There are those who my interpret his “infinite density” writing as explanation for why no God is needed for creation of the universe. However, if what is known about the “Big Bang” is dependent on “infinite density” and infinite density has not even been proven possible, the theory of the “Big Bang” occurring without “divine intervention” comes into question. In fact, it complicates the possibility since it leads to the question of what force overcame the “infinite density”. Of course this logic is criticized as “the God default” and discounted by all those who reject the concept of God. In reality it is a very logical conclusion, and a necessary one. Obviously something changed and there was a cause for that change. The thinking, “Someday science will identify the cause and we will name it then” makes the only issue here one semantics. Use a term like "The Causality" and it would be accepted as the latest scientific discovery and quickly adopted. Who would argue there wasn't a cause?
Speaking of interpretation, words like “day” in the Hebrew can indicate a single day or eons, even eternity as in “the day of the Lord”. With multiple meanings of semantics come multiple interpretations of those semantics. One of my favorite commentators, Adam Clarke (1800s), who was very well educated in Hebrew and Greek, had some very interesting interpretations of Gen 1 that make much more sense than Many I've heard.
Which brings me to the “this is that” mindset. People look for the familiar in what they don't understand in effort to understand. Obviously this is a primary way of learning, however it can also be very deceiving. Bigotry is birthed in “this is that” thinking. The fear and hatred many of one group of people express toward all members of another is hatred of association, which is bigotry, and most would agree it is ignorance.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Similar threads
