The Duggar Family

[ToBeLoved]

Hello all,

Recently there's been much in the news about the Duggar family, what with the allegations of the older brother's abuse and so on. I wanted to see what everyone on here thought about their theology, their TV show, etc. - whatever else. I do have a suspicion, however, and that is as follows:

It should be no secret that the vast majority of people in the West do not like the real Bible. I think that even many modern Christians also do not like the real Bible or real Biblical theology. Indeed, people enjoy deriding those who take the Bible seriously. I think that part of the reason this show was put on television (and I have to admit I haven't seen even one episode) was to give people an outlet to antagonize and attack Fundamentalist Christianity (i.e., those who take the Bible seriously and study it a lot). In other words, part of the reason this show was put on television was to show people how "absurd" Fundamentalist Christianity is.

Any thoughts?

The problems that the Duggars have is in no way related to their being Christians. It is not related to the Bible or even people who do not like the Bible.

The Duggar situation is really about politics and the family's political choices. Such as Michelle Duggar doing that RoboCall about how transgender people should not be using public restrooms of their choice, Josh Duggar taking a high-profile position with the FRC, ect.

So this is a bad example if you are trying to show the persecutions of Christians because of their bible-based beliefs. Almost everything that the Duggars did in handling the situation flies against Biblical theology.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I guess the Duggers Dug themselves a hole

Seriously though would you say this whole family is a cult or part of a cult?

I would say they are definitely part of a cult.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Was it discussed that his youngest victim ( a sister) was only 5 years old?

Now what person that is 14-15 years old would out of any sexual curiousity after abusing 4 other girls (three other sisters) closer to his age, would then go and sexually abuse a 5 year old?

 

[Meowzltov]

well the girls received counseling and new rules were set up in the house to prevent Josh from being alone with the girls again

They did not prevent him from being alone with the girls again

OMGosh, this is just like the pedophile scandal in the Catholic church with the bishops sending the perps to "treatement" and then reassigning them to new parishes. And you are justifying it.

 

[Root of Jesse]

As far as I'm aware this isn't what happened. I think his parents actually tried to shield him from legal ramifications. Remember that they took him to a personal police friend to have a "stern talk"; no police report was filed. Please post a source if you know otherwise.



Have to agree with this here

According to the interview, they took him to the police station to confess what he had done. They didn't ask for a specific officer. They said they had no idea, going in, what might happen to him afterward, they left it to the Lord. Obviously, there were documents filed, and sealed, and then requested by FOIA excuse by In Touch Magazine. That's why this came up 10+ years later.

 

[Root of Jesse]

They did not prevent him from being alone with the girls again

OMGosh, this is just like the pedophile scandal in the Catholic church with the bishops sending the perps to "treatement" and then reassigning them to new parishes. And you are justifying it.

It is JUST like the priest sex abuse scandal, except the priests were adults. But the Psychological community, up until very recently, believed that you could rehab these folks with counseling. Thanks be to God that it worked for the juvenile who was curious with his sisters.
By the way, we really don't know, do we?, what sort of 'molestation' happened. From what they say, he inappropriately touched his sisters outside their clothing while they were sleeping. Maybe I can blame the parents for inadequate sex education, because why was he curious? Wrong as it was, though, I think the family handled it very well.

 

[Gnarwhal]

It is JUST like the priest sex abuse scandal, except the priests were adults. But the Psychological community, up until very recently, believed that you could rehab these folks with counseling. Thanks be to God that it worked for the juvenile who was curious with his sisters.
By the way, we really don't know, do we?, what sort of 'molestation' happened. From what they say, he inappropriately touched his sisters outside their clothing while they were sleeping. Maybe I can blame the parents for inadequate sex education, because why was he curious? Wrong as it was, though, I think the family handled it very well.

Actually, I just saw an interview with the parents last night on CNN.com and the dad said it was a little more than outside the clothes. He also said they took some steps to stop it after they first learned about it but it continued.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Actually, I just saw an interview with the parents last night on CNN.com and the dad said it was a little more than outside the clothes. He also said they took some steps to stop it after they first learned about it but it continued.

I can't say that I think that they handled it well. There was a more than two year period that these things went on. Then the parents say he made a 'mistake'. They are obviously trying to downplay the entire situation.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I have to add another dimension to this...let's say Josh was a 14 year old kid going to public school, and his hormones kicked in, and he had sex with some girls in his school. Would anyone be claiming child molestation? I understand that the ages of the girls he had his 'problem' with are younger, but in such a case, people would say he's just a boy feeling his hormones, would they not? Look at the female teachers who've been caught having sex with their students, most of the time, society just chuckles.
I'm not condoning any of this, whether it's pubescent sex or in-family touching. I'm just wondering why all the finger pointing and condemnation???

 

[KnowHisJoy77]

What I wish to understand more about this whole situation is how the law see it and what they say about all of that? ..because If I understood correctly IF he hasn't confessed his actions and shared mindset as he acted, the victims would not know what he did to them, or because they were sleeping or unaware..does the law still call it abuse if the contact was so light that people were not aware of it?

As a victim of domestic violence myself, having huge knife at my face etc, who went to shelters etc and had a rough life in the past, plus lived in the darkness for 33 years of my life..I keep thinking how many people did the same and worse, never confessed their sins against others and are free . His conscience did not allow him to remain silent and he confessed, bringing his sin to the light. But how many are still walking around proudly as if they are innocent, hanging on to their own sins?

As I finished my Celebrate Recovery Inventory this week I am grateful to God that repentance, confession, to Him and others heal us and set us free. If God and his victims forgave him and the justice doesn't accuse him.. who are the ones trowing stones?

 

[ToBeLoved]

I have to add another dimension to this...let's say Josh was a 14 year old kid going to public school, and his hormones kicked in, and he had sex with some girls in his school. Would anyone be claiming child molestation? I understand that the ages of the girls he had his 'problem' with are younger, but in such a case, people would say he's just a boy feeling his hormones, would they not? Look at the female teachers who've been caught having sex with their students, most of the time, society just chuckles.
I'm not condoning any of this, whether it's pubescent sex or in-family touching. I'm just wondering why all the finger pointing and condemnation???

How does the 5 year old sister fit into your scenario? Just curious ?

 

[Root of Jesse]

How does the 5 year old sister fit into your scenario? Just curious ?

Honestly, I don't know what he 'did', so I cannot tell you. The girls said they had no idea until he confessed that he had done anything. That's not to say it wasn't inappropriate or that it didn't need to be corrected. But it seems like psychological counseling did the trick, along with making confessions to all whom he violated, along with going to the police, along with being separated from his family for a time.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Honestly, I don't know what he 'did', so I cannot tell you. The girls said they had no idea until he confessed that he had done anything. That's not to say it wasn't inappropriate or that it didn't need to be corrected. But it seems like psychological counseling did the trick, along with making confessions to all whom he violated, along with going to the police, along with being separated from his family for a time.

An interesting new revelation in this case seems to be that there is a CURRENT open investigation by the DHS on this family and the minors in this house. (see In Touch online) Just this morning earlier the family did not cooperate by allowing their child to speak with a representative of the investigation so the police were called to 'escort' the DHS employee to interview the child.

Yup. All seems well in this family.

 

[Liberasit]

There is a possibility of child abuse in any family regardless of their socio-economic position. The Duggars are as vulnerable to this as any other family.

What is a little different about this situation is that with Josh at 14, it wasn't a case of playing "doctors and nurses" or "mums and dads".

A 14 year old shouldn't need to creep into his sisters' bedroom to discover the anatomy of the other sex. In most families, this would come out naturally (bath time, beach time), as well as exposure to the mass media. In a school setting, he would have learnt everything he was looking for.

There must have been a confusion to female covering up coupled with parents' dry humping at every opportunity.

The girls' interview was quite disturbing in that they were obviously towing the party line. They were brought up to be totally submissive to males, which I find very disturbing.

I have enjoyed watching their shows, especially in how they manage a large family. The Christian fundamentalism passes me by.

 

[Rhamiel]

Was it discussed that his youngest victim ( a sister) was only 5 years old?

Now what person that is 14-15 years old would out of any sexual curiousity after abusing 4 other girls (three other sisters) closer to his age, would then go and sexually abuse a 5 year old?

what person who is 14 and would touch a 5 year old? a sick person, a kid who is pretty messed up

no one is saying this kind of stuff is normal

as far as I know, 14 year olds do not normally molest much younger girls

so yeah, it was messed up

the debate really is, should it have been dealt with criminal charges or counseling

in Mexico, drug addicts are sent to rehab instead of prison now, I think we need to try and show more mercy and try to help people who are sick

now if he was an adult when this happened, there is no question that he should have been charged with child molestation

but children are not adult
children lack the same impulse control as adults, they lack some of the social skills

They did not prevent him from being alone with the girls again

OMGosh, this is just like the pedophile scandal in the Catholic church with the bishops sending the perps to "treatement" and then reassigning them to new parishes. And you are justifying it.

well the difference is that this was not covered up, the police knew about what happened and it was agreed on that counseling would be better then charges

also, this case did not involve a pedophile
a 14 year old, no matter how sick, and clearly these were the actions of a disturbed mind, can not be diagnosed with pedophilia
actually you do have a point, there is a similarity between the two cases
both have people misusing the term pedophile

pedophilia is when an adult has an attraction exclusively or predominately to pre-pubescent children
the "pedophile" abuse cases in the Catholic Church evolved mostly homosexuals molesting teen men
there were some cases of true pedophiles, but those were very rare

 

[Root of Jesse]

An interesting new revelation in this case seems to be that there is a CURRENT open investigation by the DHS on this family and the minors in this house. (see In Touch online) Just this morning earlier the family did not cooperate by allowing their child to speak with a representative of the investigation so the police were called to 'escort' the DHS employee to interview the child.

Yup. All seems well in this family.

I trust In Touch Magazine as much as I trust Charles Manson. Do you think that, just because some authority comes knocking on your door, you have to comply? If that's the case, why, in McKinney, TX, is that young girl not in jail, and the cop still working?

 

[Root of Jesse]

There is a possibility of child abuse in any family regardless of their socio-economic position. The Duggars are as vulnerable to this as any other family.

What is a little different about this situation is that with Josh at 14, it wasn't a case of playing "doctors and nurses" or "mums and dads".

How do you know that this is not what was happening???

A 14 year old shouldn't need to creep into his sisters' bedroom to discover the anatomy of the other sex. In most families, this would come out naturally (bath time, beach time), as well as exposure to the mass media. In a school setting, he would have learnt everything he was looking for.

Agreed, but all the kids were home-schooled.

There must have been a confusion to female covering up coupled with parents' dry humping at every opportunity.

I don't know that 'dry humping' would get 19 kids and counting...

The girls' interview was quite disturbing in that they were obviously towing the party line. They were brought up to be totally submissive to males, which I find very disturbing.

Ever read Ephesians 5-6?

I have enjoyed watching their shows, especially in how they manage a large family. The Christian fundamentalism passes me by.

 

[Meowzltov]

Wrong as it was, though, I think the family handled it very well.

Oh my gosh. This is why Christians are laughed at.

 

[Rhamiel]

how do we know that was not the case? because the kid was 14!

like we should not be too flippant about what happened

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

it sounds like his actions have tarnished Christianity's image even further and just made witnessing that much harder. Everything happened a while ago, and they have all forgiven each other, but justice still must be done. I think his image forever tarnished with his sins made public is punishment enough. IMHO, and is probably the justice that was denied 13 years ago.