DUGGERS and 3 questions

[HereIStand]

The response of Jim Bob Duggar and Mike Huckabee to this abuse is why Independent Fundamental Baptists have lost their standing and influence. Having grown up in an independent fundamental Baptist church/school setting, this type of sweeping things under rug is all too common. There are good Christians within the movement. Sadly though, its leadership imposes gnat-straining standards on the rank-and-file while encouraging them to pay no attention to the camel-swallowing sin behind the curtain of leadership and their families. When these sins are found out, all sorts of rationalizations are issued, such as church is a "spiritual hospital." It's bad all over and presents a terrible witness.

 

[geetrue]

Ya'll read more than I do ... all I had was an ABC news clue that all was not right.

I didn't know it was his own family the TV show didn't say so and the records have been destroyed.
So is everyone just guessing?

Plus we don't know all of the details. For all we know he was welcomed into the family Duggars daughters wing by the daughters themselves to play doctor or to see what mommy and daddy do.

Two others knew about this incident our Father God and the devil.
Don't let this shocking revelation keep us from forgiving them even as we have been forgiven.

 

[Cute Tink]

Ya'll read more than I do ... all I had was an ABC news clue that all was not right.

I think you should start by doing some more reading, just through this thread for starters. This appeared because someone does have the police report, FYI, before it was destroyed. I've removed your other insinuations because I find them disgusting and you may want to retract them after you learn anything about this issue.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

(1) Josh Duggar and his wife need to be investigated by child protective services for his own children's sake.

(2) Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar need to be investigated by child protective services for their other children's sake.

(3) If CPS determines that either Josh's children and/or his younger siblings are in danger of sexual abuse or other abuse, they need to be removed from those homes.

Since someone else turned into police in 2006, CPS should have looked into , I bet they did, decided to not remove the children and seen everything was up to their standards or corrected.

 

[ToBeLoved]

More success with boycott and shaming of advertiser's See Update post #118

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

More success with boycott and shaming of advertiser's See Update post #118

I think this is the only way the show will be canceled. Also I think TLC knew about the Josh thing and just kept quite about it.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

1 What good does it to berate them more?

Condemning unacceptable conduct as based on the factual accountings of it isn't the equivalent to being hateful or indulging in idle gossip, but it seems to be treated as such. I do feel compassion for his victims, and that their trauma was misappropriated by InTouch Weekly for capitalization. But the Duggar parents made a choice for their family to live public lives, and that has reaped both positive consequences (lucrative television contracts, book deals, and endorsements; Josh landing an executive level job without the education or qualifications typical of such a position, primarily because of his family's prominence and reputation) and negative ones such as the 33 page police report regarding the child molestations being obtained and released. If they were a private family we wouldn't be having collective conversations about it, but since it has become public knowledge it is appropriate to criticize these reprehensible actions - and not just the ones by Josh, but also by his parents.

2. Do they deserve more punishments?

Although I am no fan of ultra conservative Christian Republicans, I do admire the Dugger parents for raising so many children and taking in the father’s mother into the household. As far as I know there are no other moral failures in that family and that is to be commended.

http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2015/may/23/silence-led-to-no-case-for-duggar-20150/

Their circumvention of laws and failure to obtain professional help for Josh and his victims made it impossible for any legal punishments to ever be meted. Licensed psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists, and physicians are mandated reporters for child abuse, and if the Duggars had provided medical care or therapy for Josh and his victims, the youngest of whom was only four and five when molested by her teenaged brother, those professionals would have been required by law to report the abuse. Law enforcement officers are also mandated reporters, but the state trooper the Duggars presented Josh to for a "very stern talk" in 2003 - a full year after the alleged abuse occurred - was a personal family friend who apparently failed to fulfill his legal obligation to report the abuse, because no other police action was taken at that time. Despite this, that conversation still constituted a "confession to law enforcement" and the clock on the statute of limitations began to tick. It was that police officer's probable (it can't be confirmed due to privacy laws) dereliction of duty that ultimately led to it being impossible to file charges against Josh.

In his statement Thursday, Duggar said he confessed his actions to his parents, "who took several steps to help me address the situation. We spoke with the authorities where I confessed my wrongdoing, and my parents arranged for me and those affected by my actions to receive counseling. I understood that if I continued down this wrong road that I would end up ruining my life."

The police report shows that Duggar, his father and an elder from their church discussed the conduct with the state police corporal, who is now serving a prison term on child pornography charges. The discussion came after Josh Duggar returned in July 2003 from a three-month stay in Little Rock.

Law enforcement officers are "mandatory reporters" under state law and are obliged by law to inform the Arkansas Child Abuse Hotline of any sexual misconduct with juvenile victims, according to Amy Webb, spokesman for the state Department of Human Services, and Bill Sadler, state police spokesman.

In 2006 when the family was interviewed by law enforcement after tips regarding the allegations had been received, it would have been possible to prosecute Josh for the offenses that he’d allegedly committed against his young sisters and another child in 2002 if the 2003 "confession" hadn't been made. Arkansas has an extended statute of limitations on sex crimes against minors, but it only applies in cases where the abuse has never been reported to law enforcement.

Many people have suffered from the ramifications of their actions - sometimes immediately after, sometimes years later, sometimes many decades later. It's not that rare for what is done in the dark to be brought to the light. In the case of the Duggars, it's a spotlight because they elected to live in one.

3. How many of us could raise 19 children and only have one failure in the family?

Having 19 children in and of itself is problematic because it means children are raising children rather than parents being able to raise each child. We only know of these specific moral failures. I personally don't think Josh Duggar is a failure as a human being - I just think he made many moral failures.

 

[SuperCloud]

One of my father siblings says he was sexually molested by one of his older brothers and older sisters when he was a young kid. He gets a long with the older sister pretty well. Not so much with the older brother but only because his older brother berates him all the time.

I've known a number of people to be sexually molested as kids--according to them--by a relative or friend of the family. All but one seem to adjust as adult the same as fat bullied kids and gay bullied kids adjust in the adults years. Like overweight kids that lose weight in the 20s or gay kids become adults that get married to a person of their same sex and then have tons of Facebook friends.

I have no idea who the Duggers are. Never heard of them. But I suspect their situation is not so unlike a great many atheist, Muslim, Buddhist, Christian, liberal, and conservative American families. Like gay family members or closet gay friends that come over to the house. Dudes or girls that fondle their own siblings is probably pretty prevalent--at least more than what most Americans think.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

That's for God to decide.

Typical cop-out.

 

[High Fidelity]

Typical cop-out.

Maybe it's easier to understand as a Christian.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

hmmm...here's a quick look at the "counseling" the girls probably got after the molesting:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2015/05/what-did-josh-duggars-counseling-look-like.html
tulc( )

Yeah, #4 is some big-time victim-blaming. Imagine the message THAT send to children who have been abused. *barf*

4. Why did God let it happen?

Result of defrauding by:

• Immodest dress
• Indecent exposure
• Being out from protection of our parents
• Being with evil friends.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

ruined 5 little girls lives.

At least, 4 more sweet girls had their lives ruined,

Their daughter was left with all the psychological damage,

OK, STOP with the hand-wringing and the tragic airs. Being molested DOES NOT ruin your life, unless you LET it. I am living proof of that FACT. It's being around people with the mentality like yours that keeps them victims, instead of letting them move on and become SURVIVORS who don't let that moment in their life define the entire rest of it.

The youngest was also FOUR, not old enough to know how "heavy" a subject one's sexuality is.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

Plus we don't know all of the details. For all we know he was welcomed into the family Duggars daughters wing by the daughters themselves to play doctor or to see what mommy and daddy do.

WOW. Nice victim-blaming. You are aware that one of the girls was only FOUR YEARS OLD at the time?????

You have a disgusting, sick mind to be blaming children for their molestation.

 

[ToBeLoved]

OK, STOP with the hand-wringing and the tragic airs. Being molested DOES NOT ruin your life, unless you LET it. I am living proof of that FACT. It's being around people with the mentality like yours that keeps them victims, instead of letting them move on and become SURVIVORS who don't let that moment in their life define the entire rest of it.

The youngest was also FOUR, not old enough to know how "heavy" a subject one's sexuality is.

I think however, growing up in that specific household with their rules of 'modesty' and how they had no real education, this particular situation was very heavy for that four-year-old.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Their circumvention of laws and failure to obtain professional help for Josh and his victims made it impossible for any legal punishments to ever be meted. Licensed psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists, and physicians are mandated reporters for child abuse, and if the Duggars had provided medical care or therapy for Josh and his victims, the youngest of whom was only four and five when molested by her teenaged brother, those professionals would have been required by law to report the abuse. Law enforcement officers are also mandated reporters, but the state trooper the Duggars presented Josh to for a "very stern talk" in 2003 - a full year after the alleged abuse occurred - was a personal family friend who apparently failed to fulfill his legal obligation to report the abuse, because no other police action was taken at that time. Despite this, that conversation still constituted a "confession to law enforcement" and the clock on the statute of limitations began to tick. It was that police officer's probable (it can't be confirmed due to privacy laws) dereliction of duty that ultimately led to it being impossible to file charges against Josh.

Since this was reported in 2006. I'm sure CPS came into the picture. They would have provided therapy for everyone involved. I doubt in this case Josh would have ever been prosecuted, since he was underage .

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Innocent tiny girls, asleep, safe in their beds, surrounded by family. Their brother sneaks in and molests them, they wake up to the nightmare. Each one, time and time again, tell Jim Bob and Michelle what their big brother did to them.

I believe it was Josh that turned his own self in to his dad. Meaning he felt he needed help and want to quit.

 

[Red Fox]

The double-standard of this is incredible; the same lady who sent out a robocall to the whole state of Arkansas about how evil trans- people were and how homosexuals are more inclined to be molesters was the one harboring a pedophile the whole time.

To say that they are hypocrites would be an understatement, IMO.

 

[Red Fox]

Amazingly, some people think it is justifiable to condemn two people of the same sex for having a loving relationship, but think that molesting children is a sin that must be forgiven at the slightest sign of contrition. They call the former a "perversion," but are so eager to forgive the perpetrator of the latter, as though his sin were far lesser, trivial even.

QFT

 

[ToBeLoved]

I believe it was Josh that turned his own self in to his dad. Meaning he felt he needed help and want to quit.

No, actually it was three different sisters who told on him over a period of two years.

 

[ZaidaBoBaida]

So in other words, Dad ignored it and allowed it to go on for two years? Why is CPS not a part of this family's life?