Did the Catholic Church changed the Sabbath to Sunday?

[BobRyan]

I do not care what the RCC does to their religious adherents. I am not RCC.
.

So then you read the OP??

 

[BobRyan]

No.

I am showing that...

1. they maintain that ALL TEN of the Ten Commandments are still in force.
2. They apply the force of the Sabbath Commandment to week-day-1.
3. This evolved over time from Sabbath keeping, to war against the Sabbath Commandment .. to enforcement of Sunday under the cover of the Sabbath Commandment. Such that today when you look up what they say about the Sabbath Commandment - they apply it today - to week-day-1

It came about in stages with the 3rd stage - uniquely Catholic.

The above is also a quoted from BobRyan.

True - and this relates to the false accusations made in the OP

The RCC has no influence over the day I worship on. They have changed neither Sunday nor Saturday as a day of worship. What they bind on their adherents is their business.

__________________

Well historic fact is already in on this subject of what the RCC claims to have done. So it should not be too surprising if we quote some of that as it applies to what is being claimed in the OP.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BukiRob]

I do not care what the RCC does to their religious adherents. I am not RCC.

Next we have a New Covenant which is not according to the Old Covenant issued at Sinai that they broke. See Jer 31.

G-d did not do away with the Torah.... you can push that agenda all you want but it is not truth.

The new covenant is not the abolishment of the original but rather that the Torah will be written on the heart and in the mind of the believer.

This teaching that Torah doesnt apply is of the flesh. Your salvation is STRICTLY dependent on your faith in G-d promise extended to you by Grace.

As James says, Faith without works is dead.

Abraham was saved by Faith yet Abraham kept G-d ordinances, decree's and statues... Abraham DID so because he believed G-d and his belief caused him to act accordingly.

So if one is ONLY saved by Faith then what of the Torah? Scripture calls it HOLY, TRUTH, the WAY in which a man should go. It is called a lamp unto my feet directing my path. It is called WISDOM....

Im sorry but what Believer does not NEED those things????????

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

In making the CHANGE just mentioned in my previous post - they do not claim to abolish the TEN Commandments - the Decalogue - but rather that they are the moral law of God -eternal binding on all still to this day.

Originally Posted by BobRyan

And of course here they argue their case for "Ten Commandments NOT Abolished" -

[FONT="]
[/FONT] [FONT="]2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.[/FONT]

[FONT="]2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.[/FONT]

[FONT="]2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26[/FONT]

[FONT="]2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29[/FONT]

[FONT="](Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.


[FONT="]As Pope John Paul [FONT="]II argues that "continued" view [FONT="]f[FONT="]or the S[FONT="]abbath Comma[FONT="]ndment - bent to point to week-day-1[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
Pope John Paul II

[FONT="]Dies Domini pt 13 -[/FONT]
[FONT="]"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.[/FONT]
​

Originally Posted by BobRyan

Here we see the CHANGE/transfer argument and we also see that they apply the term "Lord's Day" prior to the cross - to the seventh-day, Saturday, the Sabbath in "unbent" form.
​

Conversation with your self must be very self entertaining.

It could be a case where the spirit can compel one to do that,..... or it could be a disorder of some sort.

.

 

[BobRyan]

G-d did not do away with the Torah.... you can push that agenda all you want but it is not truth.

The new covenant is not the abolishment of the original but rather that the Torah will be written on the heart and in the mind of the believer.

Amen.

Bible wins on that point.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[bugkiller]

True - and this relates to the false accusations made in the OP



Well historic fact is already in on this subject of what the RCC claims to have done. So it should not be too surprising if we quote some of that as it applies to what is being claimed in the OP.

in Christ,

Bob

Lip service is worthless. You quote them saying one thing while they do another. What are they really saying? I learned many moons ago words are cheap and actions are very loud and will be heard.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

G-d did not do away with the Torah.... you can push that agenda all you want but it is not truth.

The new covenant is not the abolishment of the original but rather that the Torah will be written on the heart and in the mind of the believer.

This teaching that Torah doesnt apply is of the flesh. Your salvation is STRICTLY dependent on your faith in G-d promise extended to you by Grace.

As James says, Faith without works is dead.

Abraham was saved by Faith yet Abraham kept G-d ordinances, decree's and statues... Abraham DID so because he believed G-d and his belief caused him to act accordingly.

So if one is ONLY saved by Faith then what of the Torah? Scripture calls it HOLY, TRUTH, the WAY in which a man should go. It is called a lamp unto my feet directing my path. It is called WISDOM....

Im sorry but what Believer does not NEED those things????????

I read and believe the prophets.

Abraham didn't keep the Sabbath.

bugkiller

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by BukiRob G-d did not do away with the Torah.... you can push that agenda all you want but it is not truth.

The new covenant is not the abolishment of the original but rather that the Torah will be written on the heart and in the mind of the believer.

Amen.

Bible wins on that point.

in Christ,

Bob

I read and believe the prophets.

Abraham didn't keep the Sabbath.

bugkiller

Interesting. Is there anywhere in the OT of the Hebrew bible that showed he did?

Adam, Noah and Abraham NEVER kept the Sabbath

The Ten Commandments did not exist as a formal code of law until Moses Sabbatarians haven't comprehended the fact that the word "Sabbath" is never found in the book of Genesis. The first case of Sabbath keeping was in Exodus 16 at Mt. Sinai. Here Jehovah gave Moses the "Ten Commandments", for the first time in world history. If the Ten commandments did not exist before Moses, then neither did the 4th commandment unless we find some command or example before Moses. The truth is that Adam never kept the Sabbath, nor did Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph or anyone in while in Egyptian bondage.

Here are two comments from our history archive that prove the common view between 150 and 200AD was that the Patriarchs never kept the Sabbath!

• 150AD JUSTIN: Moreover, all those righteous men already mentioned [after mentioning Adam. Abel, Enoch, Lot, Noah, Melchizedek, and Abraham], though they kept no Sabbaths, were pleasing to God; and after them Abraham with all his descendants until Moses... And you [fleshly Jews] were commanded to keep Sabbaths, that you might retain the memorial of God. For His word makes this announcement, saying, "That you may know that I am God who redeemed you." (Dialogue With Trypho the Jew, 150-165 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, page 204)
• 200AD TERTULLIAN: Let him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day because of threat of death, teach us that in earliest times righteous men kept Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and so were made friends of God. .. ...Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised, and inobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering Him sacrifices, uncircumcised and inobservant of the Sabbath, was by Him commended... Noah also, uncircumcised - yes, and inobservant of the Sabbath - God freed from the deluge. For Enoch, too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and inobservant of the Sabbath, He translated from this world... Melchizedek also, "the priest of most high God," uncircumcised and inobservant of the Sabbath, was chosen to the priesthood of God. (An Answer to the Jews 2:10; 4:1, Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol. 3, page 153)

.

 

[Viren]

The Sabbath was changed to "Today". Hebrews 4:7

 

[listed]

So then you read the OP??

Would you be asking this question if I agreed with you? I doubt it.

 

[listed]

True - and this relates to the false accusations made in the OP



Well historic fact is already in on this subject of what the RCC claims to have done. So it should not be too surprising if we quote some of that as it applies to what is being claimed in the OP.

in Christ,

Bob

What are the false accusations made in the OP? I have read and listened.

What I read you are doing is character assassination offering no substance.

 

[listed]

Interesting. Is there anywhere in the OT of the Hebrew bible that showed he did?

Adam, Noah and Abraham NEVER kept the Sabbath

The Ten Commandments did not exist as a formal code of law until Moses Sabbatarians haven't comprehended the fact that the word "Sabbath" is never found in the book of Genesis. The first case of Sabbath keeping was in Exodus 16 at Mt. Sinai. Here Jehovah gave Moses the "Ten Commandments", for the first time in world history. If the Ten commandments did not exist before Moses, then neither did the 4th commandment unless we find some command or example before Moses. The truth is that Adam never kept the Sabbath, nor did Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph or anyone in while in Egyptian bondage.

Here are two comments from our history archive that prove the common view between 150 and 200AD was that the Patriarchs never kept the Sabbath!

• 150AD JUSTIN: Moreover, all those righteous men already mentioned [after mentioning Adam. Abel, Enoch, Lot, Noah, Melchizedek, and Abraham], though they kept no Sabbaths, were pleasing to God; and after them Abraham with all his descendants until Moses... And you [fleshly Jews] were commanded to keep Sabbaths, that you might retain the memorial of God. For His word makes this announcement, saying, "That you may know that I am God who redeemed you." (Dialogue With Trypho the Jew, 150-165 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, page 204)
• 200AD TERTULLIAN: Let him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day because of threat of death, teach us that in earliest times righteous men kept Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and so were made friends of God. .. ...Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised, and inobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering Him sacrifices, uncircumcised and inobservant of the Sabbath, was by Him commended... Noah also, uncircumcised - yes, and inobservant of the Sabbath - God freed from the deluge. For Enoch, too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and inobservant of the Sabbath, He translated from this world... Melchizedek also, "the priest of most high God," uncircumcised and inobservant of the Sabbath, was chosen to the priesthood of God. (An Answer to the Jews 2:10; 4:1, Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol. 3, page 153)

Super post LLOJ. Well put together.

 

[BobRyan]

I read and believe the prophets.

Abraham didn't keep the Sabbath.

bugkiller

The Bible says he did.

He kept all of God's Laws, commandments and statutes according to the book of Genesis.

And Christ said the "Sabbath was MADE for Mankind" Mark 2:27

"Westminster Confession of Faith"

[FONT=&quot]Chapter XIX[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Of the Law of God[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which He bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][1][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in [FONT=&quot]T[/FONT]en [FONT=&quot]C[/FONT]ommandments, and written in two tables:[/FONT][FONT=&quot][2][/FONT][FONT=&quot] the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][3][/FONT]

===============================

And so also --


[FONT=&quot]Baptist Confession of Faith Section 19 link[/FONT]


Section 19:

C.H. Spurgeon's edition of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" -- [FONT=&quot]CH Spurgeon[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

“The Perpetuity of the Law of God”
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.

Section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" .

Section 19
. The Law of God

• God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

• The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

============================

 

[BobRyan]

Since the thread does mention Catholic claims...

===========================

Originally Posted by BobRyan Catholic Catechism claims that ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments - the [FONT=&quot]Decalogue - remains binding such that the Sabbath Commandment is simply "bent" to point to week-day 1 and all 10 remain binding.


[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.[/FONT]




[FONT=&quot]2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.
[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

Sabbath unbent in the first century - begins to have bending applied as time goes on.

=======================

2nd Century. Early Christians
"The primitive Christians had a great veneration for the Sabbath, and spent the day in devotion and sermons. And it is not to be doubted but they derived this practice from the Apostles themselves, as appears by several scriptures to that purpose." Dialogue on the Lord's Day, p.189. London: 1701. By Dr. T.H. Morer (Church of England).



3rd and 4th Centuries. Orient and Most of the World
1. "The ancient Christians were very careful in the observation of Saturday, or the seventh day. . .It is plain that all the Oriental churches, and the greatest part of the world, observed the Sabbath as a festival. . . . Athanasius likewise tells us that they held religious assemblies on the Sabbath, not because they were infected with Judaism, but to worship Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath; Epiphanius says the same." Antiquities of the Christian Church, Vol. II. Book XX, chap 3, Sec. 1 66.1137, 1138.
2. Council of Laodicea. "From the apostles' time until the council of Laodicea, which was about the year 364, the holy observation of the Jews' Sabbath continued, as may be proved out of many authors; yea, notwithstanding the decree of the council against it." Sunday a Sabbath, John Ley, p. 163. London: 1640.
3. "Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday, but shall work on that day; but the Lord’s Day they shall especially honor, and, as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ." Catholic Church Council in Laodicea, 364AD, Canon 29.



5th Century. Constantinople
"The people of Constantinople and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or at Alexandria." Socrates, Ecclesiastical History, Book 7, chap. 19.





Sabbath History

 

[Cribstyl]

Good post LLOG

 

[BobRyan]

For those who think that Catholics have downsized the TEN Commandments to just NINE -- How is it that the Catholics are clinging to a STILL valid TEN Commandments in their official documents ?

Since the thread does mention Catholic claims...

===========================

Originally Posted by BobRyan Catholic Catechism claims that ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments - the [FONT=&quot]Decalogue - remains binding such that the Sabbath Commandment is simply "bent" to point to week-day 1 and all 10 remain binding.


[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.[/FONT]




[FONT=&quot]2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.
[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

I have to admit - I have enjoyed this thread that Cribstyl started.

 

[listed]

The Bible says he did.

He kept all of God's Laws, commandments and statutes according to the book of Genesis. <unrelated spam deleted>

No the Scripture does not say Abraham kept the law.

Moses says -

And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

I will take Moses over you any day.

 

[BukiRob]

No the Scripture does not say Abraham kept the law.

Moses says -

And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

I will take Moses over you any day.

Genesis 26:5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”