Did the Catholic Church changed the Sabbath to Sunday?

[BobRyan]

Simple questions that will resolve the issue ...

direct response - welcomed.

Simple direct questions for you.

Jesus said He and John were to "Fulfill all righteousness" in Matt 3 - do you agree? Does "fulfill" mean "abolish"???

Does the RCC teach that the Lord's Day did not exist in the OT but rather was instituted for the first time in the NT and as instituted it pointed to week day 1?

Has "Do not commit adultery" been "abolished" when "fulfilled"??

Do you have a text where Jesus said "I AM the Sabbath do not keep the one in the Ten Commandments"??

Do you have a text where Jesus said "I am changing the Lord's Day to week day 1"???

Do you have a text where Jesus said "If you rest and worship on week-day-1 you are fulfilling the moral obligation still binding in the Sabbath Commandment because I am now changing it from the seventh day to the first day"???

Do you make the claim that Jesus did in fact do all those things, make all those changes - not based on Bible texts that say it - but based on the Catholic Church claiming He did it "no need" for such Bible texts?

Dogma missing from scripture?

 

[MoreCoffee]

.

 

[listed]

Simple direct questions for you.

Jesus said He and John were to "Fulfill all righteousness" in Matt 3 - do you agree? Does "fulfill" mean "abolish"???

Obviously you do not understand the word fulfill. It simply means to complete. If an order is filled (fulfilled), does the order cease to have ever existed? No. Does the order have to be continuously need to be filled (fulfilled)? No. Is the existence of the order being denied? No.

If a law is replaced, is the previous law rescinded? Yes. Would that not mean there is no obligation to and thus can not ever be a violation of the replace law? We have a New Covenant and not an amended covenant. Even if you still demand we have and amended covenant the rules (requirements) have changed. You still require observance of the replaced law covenant thus refusing to participate in the replacement. You are insanely jealous of those who do and experience the freedom we have in Jesus Christ.

How is this for a direct response?

 

[listed]

And teaches that there is no moral obligation regarding the Sabbath commandment/

And teaches that regardless of what God says about the Sabbath and the moral obligation to worship on the seventh day, Saturday - it's moral obligation is now properly fulfilled by Sunday worship?




Is NOW week-day-1 but was in the Bible - Saturday, the seventh day - the Sabbath as given by God in the OT - where even your own CCC references Deut 5 showing it to be the LORD's Day - saturday, the Sabbath in the OT -- but now "changed".

Is there a need to carefully sidestep these CCC points?

in Christ,

Bob

Where is the passage of Scripture in the New Testament worshipping on the Sabbath a moral obligation? You can not even quote a New Testament passage of Scripture requiring anything on or about the Sabbath.

 

[BobRyan]

Although these questions are simple, obvious, direct, to the point and resolve the issue of this thread... it may "be a while" before someone steps up to the plate.

Simple direct questions for you.

Jesus said He and John were to "Fulfill all righteousness" in Matt 3 - do you agree? Does "fulfill" mean "abolish"???

Does the RCC teach that the Lord's Day did not exist in the OT but rather was instituted for the first time in the NT and as instituted it pointed to week day 1?

Has "Do not commit adultery" been "abolished" when "fulfilled"??

Do you have a text where Jesus said "I AM the Sabbath do not keep the one in the Ten Commandments"??

Do you have a text where Jesus said "I am changing the Lord's Day to week day 1"???

Do you have a text where Jesus said "If you rest and worship on week-day-1 you are fulfilling the moral obligation still binding in the Sabbath Commandment because I am now changing it from the seventh day to the first day"???

Do you make the claim that Jesus did in fact do all those things, make all those changes - not based on Bible texts that say it - but based on the Catholic Church claiming He did it "no need" for such Bible texts?

Dogma missing from scripture?

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by listed

Where is the passage of Scripture in the New Testament worshipping on the Sabbath a moral obligation? You can not even quote a New Testament passage of Scripture requiring anything on or about the Sabbath.
​

this is where the subject of the OP comes in...

Ten Commandments are the moral law of God and place moral obligations on all mankind - called in this text "grave obligations"

Originally Posted by BobRyan

And of course here they argue their case for "Ten Commandments NOT Abolished" -

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.[/FONT]




[FONT=&quot]2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.



[FONT=&quot]As Pope John Paul [FONT=&quot]II argues that "continued" view [FONT=&quot]f[FONT=&quot]or the S[FONT=&quot]abbath Comma[FONT=&quot]ndment - bent to point to week-day-1[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

[/FONT]
Pope John Paul II

[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini pt 13 -[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.[/FONT]
​

Here in this next post to MoreCoffee we see that the moral obligation associated with the Sabbath Commandment - and the LORD's Day - is said to be CHANGED to week-day-1 at some point.

Originally Posted by BobRyan

2174-2188 includes this "bending action" for the Sabbath.

2176 The celebration ofSunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.
​

They are having to describe the one event of the resurrection as a "bent sabbath" because they need the Sabbath's "weekly cycle" and they don't have Jesus resurrected "once a week" nor a 7 day crucifixion nor a 7 day-in-the-grave etc.

They have ONE Birth of Christ and ONE death of Christ. But nothing of a 7 day nature for either one.

So they NEED the creation WEEK Sabbath cycle of 7 days - to "bend" -- to get this as a weekly event.


======================

Your 2168 - 2173 admits the Lord's Day is Sabbath as given by God in the actual Bible -

I. The Sabbath Day
2168 The third commandment of the Decalogue recalls the holiness of the sabbath: "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD."92
2169 In speaking of the sabbath Scripture recalls creation: "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it."93
2170 Scripture also reveals in the Lord's day a memorial of Israel's liberation from bondage in Egypt: "You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with mighty hand and outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep The Sabbath day."94




God declares the Sabbath to be the Lord's Day in that 2170 example - taken from Deut 5. And of course we find that same thing in Isaiah 58 - the Sabbath, the Lord's Day.



Keeping the Sabbath

13 “If because of the Sabbath, you turn your foot
From doing your own pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord honorable,
And honor it, desisting from your own ways,
From seeking your own pleasure
And speaking your own word,

 

[Cribstyl]

Here is yet another "elephant in their living room" --

The OP is "supposedly" directed at debunking SDA claims that the RCC has made a change to the Law of God -- the TEN Commandments, such that the moral obligation of the Sabbath Commandment - still binding on all mankind -- is "for them" fulfilled by Sunday worship - and this change is also affirmed for the "LORD's Day" where even THEY claim that it starts in harmony with the seventh day - Saturday Sabbath in the OT and then is CHANGED to week day 1.

So then to debunk that claim they need to address the arguments you see actually being made here by SDAs (and I am an example of posting in favor of the SDA POV) - so then that means a lot of "help" is given to address these points I have raised.

So far I see no reference at all to anything in the video that addresses the details that have been raised proving the change from Catholic sources like Pope John Paul II, the Catholic Commentary the CCC quotes as I have pointed them out ... etc.

What is up with that "no help" feature in the OP???

How could it be so helpful or agreed upon -- by not giving any help?

in Christ,

Bob

You're not listening to my claim about how most Catholics view their catechism. The Sabbath discussion of on the "The Sabbath day" is referenced solely to the Old Covenant giving of the law. So, by calling the Sabbath commandment "the Lord's day" in that context, is not relative to Sunday, but rather solely to Saturday.



Here's how it's outline........
Article 3 THE THIRD COMMANDMENT
◾I. The Sabbath Day
◾II. The Lord's Day
◾IN BRIEF



Here's the context........

◾I. The Sabbath Day

2168 The third commandment of the Decalogue recalls the holiness of the sabbath: "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD."92

2169 In speaking of the sabbath Scripture recalls creation: "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it."93

2170 Scripture also reveals in the Lord's day a memorial of Israel's liberation from bondage in Egypt: "You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with mighty hand and outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the sabbath day."94

2171 God entrusted the sabbath to Israel to keep as a sign of the irrevocable covenant.95 The sabbath is for the Lord, holy and set apart for the praise of God, his work of creation, and his saving actions on behalf of Israel.

2172 God's action is the model for human action. If God "rested and was refreshed" on the seventh day, man too ought to "rest" and should let others, especially the poor, "be refreshed."96 The sabbath brings everyday work to a halt and provides a respite. It is a day of protest against the servitude of work and the worship of money.97

2173 The Gospel reports many incidents when Jesus was accused of violating the sabbath law. But Jesus never fails to respect the holiness of this day.98 He gives this law its authentic and authoritative interpretation: "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath."99 With compassion, Christ declares the sabbath for doing good rather than harm, for saving life rather than killing.100 The sabbath is the day of the Lord of mercies and a day to honor God.101 "The Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath."102

◾II. The Lord's Day
2174-2188 Is soley about Sunday (please read it in context to distinguish the difference from the Sabbath discussion in ◾I.)

◾IN BRIEF
2189-2195 related to Article 3 Is reference to both days.


My argument against your claims is about how you're using the CCC.


After doing more study... I do find that CCC makes countless claims that Protestants don't agree with.
The problem I have with Bob is; his sources of truth are more often than not selective, distorted and questionable.

He gives a blind eye to what happens on the first day of the week.
If scriptures shows: The disciples (church) gather to break bread, teach the gospel, collect offerings, add to the church, speak biblical facts Bob, rather than create he said, she said, deceptive schemes.
Sunday is proven to be a day that Jesus is worshipped.
It is distorted to asked for proof of God changing something that He never gave in the first place. It's only fair that you first prove that He gave it to the world. No change will be found because God never gave Sabbath to the world.

 

[Cribstyl]

In short...using 2170 of CCC to reference Sunday show ignorance on usage of the CCC.

 

[BobRyan]

on the contrary -- I am very careful in "exactly" what I claim for each of those sections --

for example ...

And of course here they argue their case for "Ten Commandments NOT Abolished" -

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.[/FONT]




[FONT=&quot]2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.



[FONT=&quot]As Pope John Paul [FONT=&quot]II argues that "continued" view [FONT=&quot]f[FONT=&quot]or the S[FONT=&quot]abbath Comma[FONT=&quot]ndment - bent to point to week-day-1[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

[/FONT]
Pope John Paul II

[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini pt 13 -[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

And to show the "bending" that takes place with the Lord's Day and with the Sabbath Commandment - I show the BEFORE picture for the OT version of these and then how they are "bent" by the RCC to the form they will accept today.

2174-2188 includes this "bending action" for the Sabbath.

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.
They are having to describe the one event of the resurrection as a "bent sabbath" because they need the Sabbath's "weekly cycle" and they don't have Jesus resurrected "once a week" nor a 7 day crucifixion nor a 7 day-in-the-grave etc.

They have ONE Birth of Christ and ONE death of Christ. But nothing of a 7 day nature for either one.

So they NEED the creation WEEK Sabbath cycle of 7 days - to "bend" -- to get this as a weekly event.


======================

Your 2168 - 2173 admits the Lord's Day is Sabbath as given by God in the actual Bible -

I. The Sabbath Day
2168 The third commandment of the Decalogue recalls the holiness of the sabbath: "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD."92
2169 In speaking of the sabbath Scripture recalls creation: "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it."93
2170 Scripture also reveals in the Lord's day a memorial of Israel's liberation from bondage in Egypt: "You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with mighty hand and outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep The Sabbath day."94




God declares the Sabbath to be the Lord's Day in that 2170 example - taken from Deut 5. And of course we find that same thing in Isaiah 58 - the Sabbath, the Lord's Day.



Keeping the Sabbath

13 “If because of the Sabbath, you turn your foot
From doing your own pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord honorable,
And honor it, desisting from your own ways,
From seeking your own pleasure
And speaking your own word,

 

[BobRyan]

And the result?

Some very simple direct questions - to be answered "not avoided at all costs"

Simple direct questions for you.

Jesus said He and John were to "Fulfill all righteousness" in Matt 3 - do you agree? Does "fulfill" mean "abolish"???

Does the RCC teach that the Lord's Day did not exist in the OT but rather was instituted for the first time in the NT and as instituted it pointed to week day 1?

Has "Do not commit adultery" been "abolished" when "fulfilled"??

Do you have a text where Jesus said "I AM the Sabbath do not keep the one in the Ten Commandments"??

Do you have a text where Jesus said "I am changing the Lord's Day to week day 1"???

Do you have a text where Jesus said "If you rest and worship on week-day-1 you are fulfilling the moral obligation still binding in the Sabbath Commandment because I am now changing it from the seventh day to the first day"???

Do you make the claim that Jesus did in fact do all those things, make all those changes - not based on Bible texts that say it - but based on the Catholic Church claiming He did it "no need" for such Bible texts?

Dogma missing from scripture?

 

[BobRyan]

A few obvious observations - as a result

I have highlighted your own posts showing where even you quote the CCC where it makes my point.

1. Ten commandments STILL binding on the saints - ALL TEN not a "nine commandment claim" in the CCC.

2. Lord's Day -- Saturday - the Sabbath as given by God in the actual Bible - then later BENT to point to week -day-1 by the church.

3. Sabbath - Saturday - in the OT as given by God - then later obedience to that commandment fulfilled/change/bent so that continued regular week-day-1 worship now fulfills that still-binding still-remaining moral obligation.

All the complaints notwithstanding these points stand without refutation. CCC proves it. Pope John Paul II proves it. Catholic Commentary proves it.

How "nice" then that someone would start a thread on this very point -- a gift!!

 

[Cribstyl]

on the contrary -- I am very careful in "exactly" what I claim for each of those sections --

for example ...

And of course here they argue their case for "Ten Commandments NOT Abolished" -

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.[/FONT]




[FONT=&quot]2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.



[FONT=&quot]As Pope John Paul [FONT=&quot]II argues that "continued" view [FONT=&quot]f[FONT=&quot]or the S[FONT=&quot]abbath Comma[FONT=&quot]ndment - bent to point to week-day-1[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

[/FONT]
Pope John Paul II

[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini pt 13 -[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.[/FONT]

In case you forgot (I doubt it), this thread is about change of Sabbath to Sunday. Your citing of CCC does not establish what God requires of Christians.

 

[BobRyan]

In case you forgot (I doubt it), this thread is about change of Sabbath to Sunday. Your citing of CCC does not establish what God requires of Christians.

Here is what the OP actually says ...

Here is an intelligent, short and to the point video about Sunday worship's origin.

I do not succumb to Catholic beliefs and practices. I do my best to report historical truths. My goal is to present that the foundational day of worship was established on biblical arguments made thousands of years ago.


SDA claim to use the Catechism to show what Catholics believe. Are they telling the truth about what Catholics believe? .

And of course the video in the OP starts out with the subject of SDAs that point to the Catholic church statements about a CHANGE of the Sabbath (and I show also with the LORD's day) such that the moral obligation that was fulfilled by Saturday Sabbath observance is "CHANGED" and now it is claimed that the obligation is satisified by Sunday worship.

I have shown this point - in triplicate.

Not just from the CCC - no doubt.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Here for example we have a Catholic commentator - far superior - far beyond the video personality claiming to show what the RCC does or does not claim.

===============================


Originally Posted by BobRyan

A Bible text then??? Is that what you want to propose.

"I the Lord Jesus am your Sabbath and have bent the Lord's day from the Sabbath SEVENTH day to now point to week-day-1 for week-day-1 is now the Lord's Day fulfilling the Sabbath Commandment moral obligation that is still-binding on all the saints. "??

I look forward to your finding such a text..

Popcorn in hand... this should be good.

Because on THIS point - I think all will see that Leo Trese's point about " no Bible text for this change" holds up to a close review of scripture.

[FONT=&quot](from "The Faith Explained" page 243[/FONT][FONT=&quot].))

"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]we know that in the O.T it was the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]seventh day[/FONT][FONT=&quot] of the week - the Sabbath day [/FONT][FONT=&quot]- which was [/FONT][FONT=&quot]observed as the Lord's day[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. that was [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the law as God gave it[/FONT][FONT=&quot]...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day[/FONT][FONT=&quot].. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]church had the right to make such a law[/FONT][FONT=&quot] is evident[/FONT][FONT=&quot]...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The reason for [/FONT][FONT=&quot]changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday[/FONT][FONT=&quot] lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday.[/FONT][FONT=&quot].that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church[/FONT]
​

 

[BobRyan]

In making the CHANGE just mentioned in my previous post - they do not claim to abolish the TEN Commandments - the Decalogue - but rather that they are the moral law of God -eternal binding on all still to this day.

And of course here they argue their case for "Ten Commandments NOT Abolished" -

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.[/FONT]




[FONT=&quot]2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.



[FONT=&quot]As Pope John Paul [FONT=&quot]II argues that "continued" view [FONT=&quot]f[FONT=&quot]or the S[FONT=&quot]abbath Comma[FONT=&quot]ndment - bent to point to week-day-1[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

[/FONT]
Pope John Paul II

[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini pt 13 -[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

We also found "Transfer" and CHANGE language here

Pope John Paul II

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Proof that this view has been around ... for a while.


[FONT=&quot]1946

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
In the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read:

Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday….
Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.
Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her!
—Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., (1946), p. 50.


1566

In the Catechism of the Council of Trent,

The Church of God has thought it well to transfer the celebration and observance of the Sabbath to Sunday!
–p 402, second revised edition (English), 1937. (First published in 1566)






1530 A non-Catholic source

the Augsburg Confession,

They [the Catholics] allege the Sabbath changed into Sunday, the Lord’s day, contrary to the decalogue, as it appears; neither is there any example more boasted of than the changing of the Sabbath day. Great, they say, is the power and authority of the church, since it dispensed with one of the ten commandments.
—Art. 28.​

 

[BobRyan]

Here we see the CHANGE/transfer argument and we also see that they apply the term "Lord's Day" prior to the cross - to the seventh-day, Saturday, the Sabbath in "unbent" form.

Your 2174-2188 section includes this "bending action" for the Sabbath.

Applying the moral obligation to Sunday worship that once rested on on Saturday - for that "moral commandment"

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.

They are having to describe the one event of the resurrection as a "bent sabbath" because they need the Sabbath's "weekly cycle" and they don't have Jesus resurrected "once a week" nor a 7 day crucifixion nor a 7 day-in-the-grave etc.

They have ONE Birth of Christ and ONE death of Christ. But nothing of a 7 day nature for either one.

So they NEED the creation WEEK Sabbath cycle of 7 days - to "bend" -- to get this as a weekly event.


======================

Your 2168 - 2173 admits the Lord's Day is Sabbath as given by God in the actual Bible -

I. The Sabbath Day
2168 The third commandment of the Decalogue recalls the holiness of the sabbath: "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD."92
2169 In speaking of the sabbath Scripture recalls creation: "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it."93
2170 Scripture also reveals in the Lord's day a memorial of Israel's liberation from bondage in Egypt: "You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with mighty hand and outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep The Sabbath day."94




God declares the Sabbath to be the Lord's Day in that 2170 example - taken from Deut 5. And of course we find that same thing in Isaiah 58 - the Sabbath, the Lord's Day.



Keeping the Sabbath

13 “If because of the Sabbath, you turn your foot
From doing your own pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord honorable,
And honor it, desisting from your own ways,
From seeking your own pleasure
And speaking your own word,

 

[BobRyan]

I wonder how many people here did not "know this" when the thread started?

 

[listed]

Here is what the OP actually says ...



And of course the video in the OP starts out with the subject of SDAs that point to the Catholic church statements about a CHANGE of the Sabbath (and I show also with the LORD's day) such that the moral obligation that was fulfilled by Saturday Sabbath observance is "CHANGED" and now it is claimed that the obligation is satisified by Sunday worship.

I have shown this point - in triplicate.

Not just from the CCC - no doubt.

in Christ,

Bob

The basis on which I and others argue for and support our position are writings (Scripture, other religious and secular) predating the time your church says the first pope came into power.