Did the Catholic Church changed the Sabbath to Sunday?

[BobRyan]

Well Bob, your perspective is not in agreement with Leo or the Catholic Catechism which establishes their official teaching . .

Current Catechism on the Sabbath Commandment -

IN BRIEF
2189 "Observe the sabbath day, to keep it holy" (Deut 5:12). "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord" (Ex 31:15).
2190 The sabbath, which represented the completion of the first creation, has been replaced by Sunday which recalls the new creation inaugurated by the Resurrection of Christ.
2191 The Church celebrates the day of Christ's Resurrection on the "eighth day," Sunday, which is rightly called the Lord's Day (cf. SC 106).
2192 "Sunday . . . is to be observed as the foremost holy day of obligation in the universal Church" (CIC, can. 1246 § 1). "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass" (CIC, can. 1247).

 

[BobRyan]

Well Bob, your perspective is not in agreement with Leo or the Catholic Catechism which establishes their official teaching . .

Catholic Catechism.

Sunday - fulfillment of the sabbath
2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107
Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.108




2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Catholic Catechism.

Sunday - fulfillment of the sabbath
2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfils the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:

Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.​

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all." Sunday worship fulfils the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.

Yep, that is in The Catechism of the Catholic Church. See link here

 

[bugkiller]

Current Catechism on the Sabbath Commandment -

IN BRIEF
2189 "Observe the sabbath day, to keep it holy" (Deut 5:12). "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord" (Ex 31:15).
2190 The sabbath, which represented the completion of the first creation, has been replaced by Sunday which recalls the new creation inaugurated by the Resurrection of Christ.
2191 The Church celebrates the day of Christ's Resurrection on the "eighth day," Sunday, which is rightly called the Lord's Day (cf. SC 106).
2192 "Sunday . . . is to be observed as the foremost holy day of obligation in the universal Church" (CIC, can. 1246 § 1). "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass" (CIC, can. 1247).

Are you trying to get them to close their church on Sunday?

bugkiller

 

[MoreCoffee]

Are you trying to get them to close their church on Sunday?

bugkiller

I may be wrong but I think that the quotes from The Catechism of the Catholic Church are intended to show that the moral and spiritual observance of Sunday is the anti-type of the moral and spiritual significance of the Sabbath ... or that the Lord's day is Sunday ... or that Catholics do not teach that Sunday is the Sabbath.

 

[Cribstyl]

Catholic Catechism.

Sunday - fulfillment of the sabbath
2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107
Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.108




2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.

Like I said; your perspective is not in line with Leo and the Catholic Church.
You keep posting quotes, your arguments does not line up.

You have proved my argument as to when the Catholic believe Sunday was kept/changed. That answer is: Apostolic times (as noted in scriptures but not commanded in scripture.)
It's Catholic's perspective that Peter was the first pope and head of the church.

Let's rewind for clarity's sake.

Leo who died in 2004,wrote a book bragging that his church used their authority make that change. (Many Catholics have made that claim.)
You're presenting Leo as if his commentary on the Baltimore Catechism agree with SDA claims. It does not.

You and Ellen White claim that the change happened somewhere around 325 AD or by a pope that SDA cannot identify. If your claim was Peter changed it, you'd have no argument from the Catholics.

My argument to you is that Catholic truth points to apostolic times as to when that change was made.
Justin Martyr's writings is quoted in the catechism to establish a timeline about the tradition of Sunday worship.


Your second argument about Catholics and pro Sunday scholars keeping the ten commandments, tend to misunderstand their explanation about the Sabbath commandment being both morally and (ceremonially) fulfilled by keeping Sunday.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The answer to the thread question is a simple "no".

The facts are that the Lord Jesus Christ changed the old law by giving christians a new covenant and in that new covenant christians are made members of the body of Christ through baptism (see Romans chapter six) and because christians are the body of Christ they participate in the rest from work that Christ participates in by means of his resurrection. Christ is the sabbath (rest) of christians. Thus it is Christ who changed the seventh day by fulfilling it.

Christians commemorate the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ on Sunday which under the law of the old (and now abrogated) covenant was called the first day (of the week). Commemorating the Lord's resurrection by means of a rest from all servile work, except for works of mercy and necessity, is a gift to the faithful so that they can participate in the liturgy of the mass and celebrate the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Contending that Sunday is a substitute for the seventh day rest of the old law is an entirely misconceived view of the Lord's day. Christ died and with him Christians also die with reference to the old law and to sin but Christ rose again and Christians also rise with him to a new life and a new covenant with a new high priest and a new priesthood and new laws. The new laws are those given by the Lord Jesus Christ and they are few in number: love God because God is love and love the brethren as Christ has loved us.

 

[Cribstyl]

The answer to the thread question is a simple "no".

The facts are that the Lord Jesus Christ changed the old law by giving christians a new covenant and in that new covenant christians are made members of the body of Christ through baptism (see Romans chapter six) and because christians are the body of Christ they participate in the rest from work that Christ participates in by means of his resurrection. Christ is the sabbath (rest) of christians. Thus it is Christ who changed the seventh day by fulfilling it.

Christians commemorate the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ on Sunday which under the law of the old (and now abrogated) covenant was called the first day (of the week). Commemorating the Lord's resurrection by means of a rest from all servile work, except for works of mercy and necessity, is a gift to the faithful so that they can participate in the liturgy of the mass and celebrate the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Contending that Sunday is a substitute for the seventh day rest of the old law is an entirely misconceived view of the Lord's day. Christ died and with him Christians also die with reference to the old law and to sin but Christ rose again and Christians also rise with him to a new life and a new covenant with a new high priest and a new priesthood and new laws. The new laws are those given by the Lord Jesus Christ and they are few in number: love God because God is love and love the brethren as Christ has loved us.

I find your answer to be correct. Mostly undisputable truths. Thanks MC.


Scripture does not say that they come together to commemorate the resurrection by resting and other Sabbath requirements.

The resurrection is commemorated by the annual Easter celebration.
It's evident that they came together on the first day of the week to break bread and preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[BobRyan]

IN BRIEF
2189 "Observe the sabbath day, to keep it holy" (Deut 5:12). "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord" (Ex 31:15).
2190 The sabbath, which represented the completion of the first creation, has been replaced by Sunday which recalls the new creation inaugurated by the Resurrection of Christ.
2191 The Church celebrates the day of Christ's Resurrection on the "eighth day," Sunday, which is rightly called the Lord's Day (cf. SC 106).
2192 "Sunday . . . is to be observed as the foremost holy day of obligation in the universal Church" (CIC, can. 1246 § 1). "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass" (CIC, can. 1247).

========================================================
Catholic Encyclopedia -

[FONT=&quot]NewAdvent[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Sunday[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Sunday was the first day of the week according to the Jewish method of reckoning, but for Christians it began to take the place of the Jewish Sabbath in Apostolic times as the day set apart for the public and solemn worship of God[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot] St. Cæsarius of Arles in the sixth century teaching that the holy Doctors of the Church had decreed that the whole glory of the Jewish Sabbath had been transferred to the Sunday, and that Christians must keep the Sunday holy in the same way as the Jews had been commanded to keep holy the Sabbath Day. He especially insisted on the people hearing the whole of the Mass and not leaving the church after the Epistle and the Gospel had been read. He taught them that they should come to Vespers and spend the rest of the day in pious reading and prayer. As with the Jewish Sabbath, the observance of the Christian Sunday began with sundown on Saturday and lasted till the same time on Sunday[/FONT].
[FONT=&quot]…[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The obligation of rest from work on Sunday remained somewhat indefinite for several centuries. A Council of Laodicea, held toward the end of the fourth century, was content to prescribe that on the Lord's Day the faithful were to abstain from work as far as possible. At the beginning of the sixth century St. Caesarius, as we have seen, and others showed an inclination to apply the law of the Jewish Sabbath to the observance of the Christian Sunday. The Council held at Orléans in 538 reprobated this tendency as Jewish and non-Christian. From the eight century the law began to be formulated as it exists at the present day, and the local councils forbade servile work, public buying and selling, pleading in the law courts, and the public and solemn taking of oaths. There is a large body of civil legislation on the Sunday rest side by side with the ecclesiastical. It begins with an Edict of Constantine, the first Christian emperor, who forbade judges to sit and townspeople to work on Sunday. He made an exception in favour of agriculture. The breaking of the law of Sunday rest was punished by the Anglo-Saxon legislation in England like other crimes and misdemeanours. After the Reformation, under Puritan influence, many laws were passed in England whose effect is still visible in the stringency of the English Sabbath. Still more is this the case in Scotland.[/FONT]
================================================== end CE

Current Catechism on the Sabbath Commandment -

IN BRIEF
2189 "Observe the sabbath day, to keep it holy" (Deut 5:12). "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord" (Ex 31:15).
2190 The sabbath, which represented the completion of the first creation, has been replaced by Sunday which recalls the new creation inaugurated by the Resurrection of Christ.
2191 The Church celebrates the day of Christ's Resurrection on the "eighth day," Sunday, which is rightly called the Lord's Day (cf. SC 106).
2192 "Sunday . . . is to be observed as the foremost holy day of obligation in the universal Church" (CIC, can. 1246 § 1). "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass" (CIC, can. 1247).

Originally Posted by bugkiller

Are you trying to get them to close their church on Sunday?

bugkiller
​

​

No.

I am showing that...

1. they maintain that ALL TEN of the Ten Commandments are still in force.

2. They apply the force of the Sabbath Commandment to week-day-1.

3. This evolved over time from Sabbath keeping, to war against the Sabbath Commandment .. to enforcement of Sunday under the cover of the Sabbath Commandment. Such that today when you look up what they say about the Sabbath Commandment - they apply it today - to week-day-1

It came about in stages with the 3rd stage - uniquely Catholic.

 

[BobRyan]

hence their own commentary on the Baltimore Catechism -

[FONT=&quot] (from "The Faith Explained" page 243[/FONT][FONT=&quot].))

"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]we know that in the O.T it was the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]seventh day[/FONT][FONT=&quot] of the week - the Sabbath day [/FONT][FONT=&quot]- which was [/FONT][FONT=&quot]observed as the Lord's day[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. that was [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the law as God gave it[/FONT][FONT=&quot]...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day[/FONT][FONT=&quot].. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]church had the right to make such a law[/FONT][FONT=&quot] is evident[/FONT][FONT=&quot]...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The reason for [/FONT][FONT=&quot]changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday[/FONT][FONT=&quot] lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday.[/FONT][FONT=&quot].that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

[FONT=&quot]And so -- as[FONT=&quot] already noted...

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

They admit that there is no actual Bible command calling for it.. and in that they are right.

They admit that "sola scriptura" claiming non-Catholics have no basis at all for the Sabbath bent to week-day-1 claims that we find in places like the Baptist Confession of Faith - section 21.

On those two points they are irrefutable.

But they have no support at all for their bent-sabbath argument.

And they condemn the "nine commandments" not a full decalogue as the only thing that remains. In fact they are arguing for the continued Sabbath Commandment - bent -- to week-day-1

As does D.L. Moody.

As does Baptist Confession of Faith

As does Westminster Confession of Faith.

They (The RCC) even argue for a "bent" Lord's Day -- starting out as 7thd day and then bent to week-day 1.

Here is Pope John Paul II - using that "still binding Sabbath Commandment" language ---because in his mind it is "bent" to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

Pope John Paul II

[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini pt 13 -[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

And of course here they argue their case for "Ten Commandments NOT Abolished" -

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.[/FONT]




[FONT=&quot]2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.



[FONT=&quot]As Pope John Paul [FONT=&quot]II argues that "continued" view [FONT=&quot]f[FONT=&quot]or the S[FONT=&quot]abbath Comma[FONT=&quot]ndment - bent to point to week-day-1[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

[/FONT]
Pope John Paul II

[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini pt 13 -[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

Two Catholics.... two views


A recent view -

Contending that Sunday is a substitute for the seventh day rest of the old law is an entirely misconceived view of the Lord's day.

The more documented view --

Pope John Paul II

[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini pt 13 -[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.[/FONT]

=========================

No wait - 3 Catholics... 2 views.

their own commentary on the Baltimore Catechism -

1965 -- first published 1959

[FONT=&quot] (from "The Faith Explained" page 243[/FONT][FONT=&quot].))

"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]we know that in the O.T it was the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]seventh day[/FONT][FONT=&quot] of the week - the Sabbath day [/FONT][FONT=&quot]- which was [/FONT][FONT=&quot]observed as the Lord's day[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. that was [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the law as God gave it[/FONT][FONT=&quot]...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day[/FONT][FONT=&quot].. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]church had the right to make such a law[/FONT][FONT=&quot] is evident[/FONT][FONT=&quot]...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The reason for [/FONT][FONT=&quot]changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday[/FONT][FONT=&quot] lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday.[/FONT][FONT=&quot].that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

[/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Proof that this view has been around ... for a while.


[FONT=&quot]1946

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
In the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read:

Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday….
Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.
Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her!
—Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., (1946), p. 50.


1566

In the Catechism of the Council of Trent,

The Church of God has thought it well to transfer the celebration and observance of the Sabbath to Sunday!
–p 402, second revised edition (English), 1937. (First published in 1566)






1530 A non-Catholic source

the Augsburg Confession,

They [the Catholics] allege the Sabbath changed into Sunday, the Lord’s day, contrary to the decalogue, as it appears; neither is there any example more boasted of than the changing of the Sabbath day. Great, they say, is the power and authority of the church, since it dispensed with one of the ten commandments.
—Art. 28.​

 

[MoreCoffee]

The Catholic Church teaches one doctrine about the Sabbath and that is that the ancient Sabbath of Israel was a rest on the seventh day of the week in commemoration of God's creation rest and in anticipation of the Lord Jesus Christ who is himself our sabbath. And the Catholic Church teaches one doctrine about the Lord's day and that is that the Lord's day is on the first day of the week commemorating the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ and in anticipation of the resurrection of the just to eternal life in communion with the Lord Jesus Christ. The source for these statements is the Catechism of the Catholic Church sections 2168 to 2173 (for the Sabbath) and sections 2174 to 2188 (for the Lord's day).

 

[BobRyan]

The Catholic Church teaches one doctrine about the Sabbath

I have to think that Pope John Paul II knew that when he said

Pope John Paul II

[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini pt 13 -[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.[/FONT] __________________


Everyone agrees that he is making a pro-sunday pro-week-day-1 and yet pro-Sabbath commandment argument in that statement.

Their invention is that the the Sabbath commandment was edited by the church (and they mean RCC) to point to week-day-1 instead of the actual seventh day (Saturday) because they "consider" that leaving it as God stated it - on Saturday would be "Jewish".


Interesting that Sabbath Commandment "still binding" is the point that John Paul makes.

And the CCC makes the same case with the TEN Commandments. Still applicable.

the ancient Sabbath of Israel was a rest on the seventh day of the week in commemoration of God's creation rest and in anticipation of the Lord Jesus Christ who is himself our sabbath.

Is 66:23 points to "from Sabbath to Sabbath" worships events in the New Earth - far beyond the cross - proving that this was not an event that would end at the cross.

But that would be "sola scriptura" testing of doctrine and tradition - not everyone will agree with that idea.

The animal sacrifices pointed to the sacrifice of Christ - the weekly cycle did not - it points back to the week - the first week - creation week.


At least the RCC gets the point right about the "Decalogue" remaining - the TEN Commandments. And Pope John Paul II about the Sabbath in the Ten Commandments remaining for Christians even if "bent" to point to week-day-1 because of the resurrection.


in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Two Catholics - two different views of the "Lord's Day" ? Or are you saying you actually agree with those sections?

And the Catholic Church teaches one doctrine about the Lord's day and that is that the Lord's day is on the first day of the week commemorating the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ and in anticipation of the resurrection of the just to eternal life in communion with the Lord Jesus Christ. The source for these statements is the Catechism of the Catholic Church sections 2168 to 2173 (for the Sabbath) and sections 2174 to 2188 (for the Lord's day).

Notice that the Lord's Day is said to be Saturday as given by God - and it too - "bent" to point to week-day-1 in this next statement.

hence their own commentary on the Baltimore Catechism -

[FONT=&quot] (from "The Faith Explained" page 243[/FONT][FONT=&quot].))

"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]we know that in the O.T it was the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]seventh day[/FONT][FONT=&quot] of the week - the Sabbath day [/FONT][FONT=&quot]- which was [/FONT][FONT=&quot]observed as the Lord's day[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. that was [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the law as God gave it[/FONT][FONT=&quot]...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day[/FONT][FONT=&quot].. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]church had the right to make such a law[/FONT][FONT=&quot] is evident[/FONT][FONT=&quot]...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The reason for [/FONT][FONT=&quot]changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday[/FONT][FONT=&quot] lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday.[/FONT][FONT=&quot].that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]

Your 2174-2188 includes this "bending action" for the Sabbath.

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.[/quote]

They are having to describe the one event of the resurrection as a "bent sabbath" because they need the Sabbath's "weekly cycle" and they don't have Jesus resurrected "once a week" nor a 7 day crucifixion nor a 7 day-in-the-grave etc.

They have ONE Birth of Christ and ONE death of Christ. But nothing of a 7 day nature for either one.

So they NEED the creation WEEK Sabbath cycle of 7 days - to "bend" -- to get this as a weekly event.


======================

Your 2168 - 2173 admits the Lord's Day is Sabbath as given by God in the actual Bible -

I. The Sabbath Day
2168 The third commandment of the Decalogue recalls the holiness of the sabbath: "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD."92
2169 In speaking of the sabbath Scripture recalls creation: "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it."93
2170 Scripture also reveals in the Lord's day a memorial of Israel's liberation from bondage in Egypt: "You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with mighty hand and outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep The Sabbath day."94




God declares the Sabbath to be the Lord's Day in that 2170 example - taken from Deut 5. And of course we find that same thing in Isaiah 58 - the Sabbath, the Lord's Day.



Keeping the Sabbath

13 “If because of the Sabbath, you turn your foot
From doing your own pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord honorable,
And honor it, desisting from your own ways,
From seeking your own pleasure
And speaking your own word,



in Christ,

Bob

 

[MoreCoffee]

In reply to Post #75, It ought to be observed that counting opinions held by individual Catholics is no substitute for accurately stating what the Catholic Church teaches. When dealing with Official teaching official sources ought to be consulted. Quote from the CCC for a good and reliable source of Catholic teaching. Specifically, for the question of Sabbath and Lord's day quote from the CCC's sections on those two matters; CCC sections 2168 to 2173 (for the Sabbath) and CCC sections 2174 to 2188 (for the Lord's day).

I refer you to a previous post too.

The Catholic Church teaches one doctrine about the Sabbath and that is that the ancient Sabbath of Israel was a rest on the seventh day of the week in commemoration of God's creation rest and in anticipation of the Lord Jesus Christ who is himself our sabbath. And the Catholic Church teaches one doctrine about the Lord's day and that is that the Lord's day is on the first day of the week commemorating the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ and in anticipation of the resurrection of the just to eternal life in communion with the Lord Jesus Christ. The source for these statements is the Catechism of the Catholic Church sections 2168 to 2173 (for the Sabbath) and sections 2174 to 2188 (for the Lord's day).

 

[BobRyan]

[FONT=&quot]2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I. The Sabbath Day[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
2168 The third commandment of the Decalogue recalls the holiness of the sabbath: "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD."92
2169 In speaking of the sabbath Scripture recalls creation: "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it."93
2170 Scripture also reveals in the Lord's day a memorial of Israel's liberation from bondage in Egypt: "You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with mighty hand and outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep The Sabbath day."94[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29

[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

In reply to Post #75, It ought to be observed that counting opinions held by individual Catholics is no substitute for accurately stating what the Catholic Church teaches. When dealing with Official teaching official sources ought to be consulted. Quote from the CCC for a good and reliable source of Catholic teaching.

Which explains why I am quoting from the CCC

Your 2174-2188 includes this "bending action" for the Sabbath.

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.[/quote]

They are having to describe the one event of the resurrection as a "bent sabbath" because they need the Sabbath's "weekly cycle" and they don't have Jesus resurrected "once a week" nor a 7 day crucifixion nor a 7 day-in-the-grave etc.

They have ONE Birth of Christ and ONE death of Christ. But nothing of a 7 day nature for either one.

So they NEED the creation WEEK Sabbath cycle of 7 days - to "bend" -- to get this as a weekly event.


======================

Your 2168 - 2173 admits the Lord's Day is Sabbath as given by God in the actual Bible - so the "bending" is applied to the Lord's Day as well to bend it also to week day 1 -- later in the NT.

I. The Sabbath Day
2168 The third commandment of the Decalogue recalls the holiness of the sabbath: "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD."92
2169 In speaking of the sabbath Scripture recalls creation: "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it."93
2170 Scripture also reveals in the Lord's day a memorial of Israel's liberation from bondage in Egypt: "You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with mighty hand and outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep The Sabbath day."94




God declares the Sabbath to be the Lord's Day in that 2170 example - taken from Deut 5. And of course we find that same thing in Isaiah 58 - the Sabbath, the Lord's Day.



Keeping the Sabbath

13 “If because of the Sabbath, you turn your foot
From doing your own pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord honorable,
And honor it, desisting from your own ways,
From seeking your own pleasure
And speaking your own word,

========================================

Turns out Leo Trese was accurate in what he said about the RCC and its claims.

imagine that. A Catholic author writing a well accepted Catholic commentary on the Baltimore Catechism - getting it right in terms of what we see in the CCC stated above.

I don't find that as shocking as some others might find it.

======================================================

Ten Commandments still binding on the saints today - and the Lord's Day - was Sabbath as given by God in the Bible.




[FONT=&quot]2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I. The Sabbath Day[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
2168 The third commandment of the Decalogue recalls the holiness of the sabbath: "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD."92
2169 In speaking of the sabbath Scripture recalls creation: "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it."93
2170 Scripture also reveals in the Lord's day a memorial of Israel's liberation from bondage in Egypt: "You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with mighty hand and outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep The Sabbath day."94[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29[/FONT]


========================= end

And of course then "bent" to point to week day 1.

So then back to the OP

SDA claim to use the Catechism to show what Catholics believe. Are they telling the truth about what Catholics believe? It's should obvious to them how Sunday is not kept as a 24hr Sabbath as describe in the law.

The SDA argument is not that the RCC is pristine in keeping it's bent-sabbath - it is that it "bent the Sabbath" to point it to week day 1 - and the CCC is not slow in pointing to that fact.


in Christ,

Bob

 

[MoreCoffee]

In reply to post #77, one can fill posts with cut & pasted material from the CCC. I generally approve of quoting the CCC. So to help my friends along I will quote the salient sections on the Lord's day.

II. The Lord's Day

This is the day which the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it.

The day of the Resurrection: the new creation

2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week." Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath, it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:

We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day [after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day] when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Saviour rose from the dead. (St. Justin, I Apol. 67: PG 6, 429 and 432.)​

Sunday - fulfilment of the sabbath

2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfils the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:

Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death. (St. Ignatius of Antioch, Ad Magn. 9, 1: SCh 10, 88.)​

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all." Sunday worship fulfils the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.​

 

[BobRyan]

I generally approve of quoting the CCC.

Here is a point I found mysterious - I am quoting the CCC -- Catholics should be joyful!!

I don't see why I get any Catholic complaints on this - I quote your Commentary, your Popes, your CCC... You should be paying me.

So to help my friends along I will quote the salient sections on the Lord's day.

II. The Lord's Day

This is the day which the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it.

The day of the Resurrection: the new creation

2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week." Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath, it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:

We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day [after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day] when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Saviour rose from the dead. (St. Justin, I Apol. 67: PG 6, 429 and 432.)​

Sunday - fulfilment of the sabbath

2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfils the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:

Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death. (St. Ignatius of Antioch, Ad Magn. 9, 1: SCh 10, 88.)​

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all." Sunday worship fulfils the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.​

I even bold and highlight your own quotes -- !!

showing the 'bent' aspect where the Sabbath Commandment -- obedience to the Sabbath Commandment - given by God in the still-binding-decalogue is claimed to be Sunday worship.

If the argument were "Sabbath commandment deleted no longer fulfilled by any practices because it no longer exists, Decalogue downsized to NINE" we would see words to that effect.

Instead we have the language of the REMAINING TEN Commandments





[FONT=&quot]2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I. The Sabbath Day[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
2168 The third commandment of the Decalogue recalls the holiness of the sabbath: "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD."92
2169 In speaking of the sabbath Scripture recalls creation: "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it."93
2170 Scripture also reveals in the Lord's day a memorial of Israel's liberation from bondage in Egypt: "You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with mighty hand and outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep The Sabbath day."94[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29



[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Your 2174-2188 includes this "bending action" for the Sabbath.

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people
[FONT=&quot]Complete with Sabbath Commandment - bending just as Pope John Paul II argues - nothing new here.

[/FONT][/FONT]Pope John Paul II

[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini pt 13 -[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.[/FONT]