Paul fought the circumcision, Messianic Judaism.

[Frogster]

The motivation for getting circumcised was important to Paul. If you get circumcised because you think that you need to become a Jewish proselyte in order to be saved, then you're doing it for the wrong reason. They are already justified by faith and were essentially rejecting Christ's gift in order to become justified through their own effort. The only to become justified is by keeping the law is by keeping it perfectly, so because all have sinned they were falling under condemnation. However, this does not mean circumcision in itself was bad.

I think about 80% of the males in the USA are circumcised Gentiles, does that mean that Christ is no value to them? I think not.

oh come on, it is done today for health reasons, or whatever, not for spiritual reasons

 

[Soyeong]

Justification is certainly important, but it us just the beginning of the Christian walk of doing good works in obedience to God.

 

[Soyeong]

oh come on, it is done today for health reasons, or whatever, not for spiritual reasons

So you would agree with me that the reasons behind getting circumcised are important?

 

[Frogster]

So you would agree with me that the reasons behind getting circumcised are important?

I don't remember, I was just a baby when they did it, but it was not for spiritual reasons.

 

[Soyeong]

It looks exhaustive. It also looks to be a temporary requirement to maintain peace with the Jews who were being drawn to the gospel message.

Wow, I did not think you would go there. How can Gentiles even claim to be followers of Christ if they don't think they need to follow anything he said or did?

 

[Frogster]

Wow, I did not think you would go there. How can Gentiles even claim to be followers of Christ if they don't think they need to follow anything he said or did?

how do I go to temple? do i have to be a carpenter too, and eat kosher, and speak Hebrew?

 

[Soyeong]

I don't remember, I was just a baby when the did it, but it was not for spiritual reasons.

Right, but you're still saying it was ok that you got circumcised because it was for a different reason than what Paul is criticizing the Galatians for. In other words, Paul was not criticising all reasons for getting circumcised, just the reason that the Gentiles were doing it for.

 

[Soyeong]

how do I go to temple? do i have to be a carpenter too, and eat kosher, and speak Hebrew?

Obviously I'm not talking about living how they lived in 1st century Israel, but about how he behaved in relation to others and relation to God.

 

[Frogster]

Right, but you're still saying it was ok that you got circumcised because it was for a different reason than what Paul is criticizing the Galatians for. In other words, Paul was not criticising all reasons for getting circumcised, just the reason that the Gentiles were doing it for.

bro...really..I mean...ummmm..oh never mind, good night!

 

[Soyeong]

bro...really..I mean...ummmm..oh never mind, good night!

You have to disagree with my on principle, don't you?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Wow, I did not think you would go there. How can Gentiles even claim to be followers of Christ if they don't think they need to follow anything he said or did?

Following Christ is not the same thing as keeping 613 commandments.

 

[SAAN]

What do you do with John 5:24? It says I've already passed the judgment and attained life.

bugkiller

Your faith is what will get you through the gates of heaven, but your rewards will be judged by your works. If everyone is the same it's no point of following the bible at all since I could do a death bed repentance and be no greater than David, Moses, or Abraham.

 

[Steeno7]

Well, The Acts of the Apostles also tells us that only four things were needed for the peace of the church while large numbers of Jews were coming to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. And I think that message is something that those advocating obedience to 613 commandments would not really be too happy to follow.

Acts is all about those first Christians learning exactly what it meant to now be under the New program of the New Covenant.

Luke's clear stated purpose in writing the book of Acts is, "to set forth the continuation of the ministry of Christ after His resurrection and ascension". That is, His ministry through His apostles....hence the designation, "Acts of the Apostles". He wrote to document the spread of the apostolic church from Jerusalem to the "uttermost part of the earth" (Acts 1:8). His purpose, then, was not doctrinal but historical.

In the Gospels, God's people still worshipped according to the Mosaic Law with its tithes, sacrifices, temple etc..

In the Epistles, God's people are the church, meeting and worshipping outside the temple and apart from the Mosaic Law.

In Acts there are both....as it records that historical period of transition, from the Old to the New order.

 

[Steeno7]

Your faith is what will get you through the gates of heaven, but your rewards will be judged by your works. If everyone is the same it's no point of following the bible at all since I could do a death bed repentance and be no greater than David, Moses, or Abraham.

Well, Christians don't follow the Bible, we follow the One the Bible points us to, Jesus Christ. And the only works that will be rewarded are those that originate in Christ, done through us in His power, as the result of continuing to live by faith in Him. All other works are but wood, hay and stubble destined for nothing but the fire.

 

[Frogster]

So you would agree with me that the reasons behind getting circumcised are important?

Paul used derogatory language about it. The Jewish circumcision, the initiation rite, was just something done in the flesh, by hands.



2:11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands—

 

[Frogster]

So you would agree with me that the reasons behind getting circumcised are important?

By the way, since the thread is about Messianic Judaism just out of curiousity, are you a gentile?

 

[SAAN]

Well, Christians don't follow the Bible, we follow the One the Bible points us to, Jesus Christ. And the only works that will be rewarded are those that originate in Christ, done through us in His power, as the result of continuing to live by faith in Him. All other works are but wood, hay and stubble destined for nothing but the fire.

You cant follow Jesus, if you reject the words of him or words by him. You are pretty much saying the word of God is useless.


The Great White Throne Judgment
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.


If our works are meaningless, so is judgement day because its no point of even being judged!

 

[Steeno7]

You cant follow Jesus, if you reject the words of him or words by him. You are pretty much saying the word of God is useless.

You can't follow Jesus when you are rejecting His leading.

I'm saying the same thing Jesus said, "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life." John 5:39-40

The Great White Throne Judgment
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

If our works are meaningless, so is judgement day because its no point of even being judged!

Already explained. "Our" works are nothing but filthy rags, always have been and always will be.

 

[Frogster]

You cant follow Jesus, if you reject the words of him or words by him. You are pretty much saying the word of God is useless.


The Great White Throne Judgment
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.


If our works are meaningless, so is judgement day because its no point of even being judged!

but we are in the book of life!

God will also judge those who thought they were righteous by works too.

Mull that over.

 

[bugkiller]

Your faith is what will get you through the gates of heaven, but your rewards will be judged by your works. If everyone is the same it's no point of following the bible at all since I could do a death bed repentance and be no greater than David, Moses, or Abraham.

You really want to argue over position in heaven. Now that's taking vanity to the max.

bugkiller