Paul fought the circumcision, Messianic Judaism.

[MoreCoffee]

There is a thread in the MJ section where some are advocating that gentile christians be circumcised. Click this link to see

So I guess some take the 613 commandments and reject what saint Paul says in Galatians.

Galatians 5:2 It is I, Paul, who am telling you that if you have yourselves circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you.​

 

[bugkiller]

I quoted the first post I made about the oral and written law to prove that I was talking about both since the beginning when you started making these baseless accusations the last time, so you truly have your head in the sand. If you have no interest in understand me, why do you continue to make posts directed at me?

No more than you do with him. If you don't wish to discuss it with him drop out. You won't out last him, trust me. BTW I'm not a lawyer or politician. Thank God.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

The politics of power over others never changes, does it?


Did you once attend a MJ assembly?

No. They infiltrated my church.

bugkiller

 

[Soyeong]

What do you do wit John 5:24? It says I've already passed the judgment and attained life.

bugkiller

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

Revelation 22:12 “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done.

There would be two judgements, one according to whether we are justified by faith and one according to what we have done.

 

[Soyeong]

Why is it that two short verses from the book of The Acts of the Apostles can be so troublesome from MJ teaching? Could it be because those two verses expose the nudity of the emperor parading down the street in his "new clothes"?

For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

• That ye abstain from meats offered to idols,
• and from blood,
• and from things strangled,
• and from fornication:

from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. Acts 15:28-29​

These are the "necessary things" and even so they are necessary because "Moses, for generations now, has had those who proclaim him in every town, as he has been read in the synagogues every sabbath".

Those four necessary things fall far short of the 613 commandments that Messianic Judaism concerns itself with.

If you strictly hold that Gentiles are only required to do those four things, then that would exclude everything Jesus said to do. However, if you say that's obviously not an exhaustive list, then I'd agree with you.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Paul's on-the-record statement to Messianic Jews --

Acts 21 20 And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.

(Many here would argue - "yeah... that is EXACTLY what Paul was doing!" - Paul goes out of his way to disprove it.)​

22 What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
23 Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;
24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law. .

I am not sure but it looks like your posts advocates circumcision, is that right?

 

[MoreCoffee]

If you strictly hold that Gentiles are only required to do those four things, then that would exclude everything Jesus said to do. However, if you say that's obviously not an exhaustive list, then I'd agree with you.

It looks exhaustive. It also looks to be a temporary requirement to maintain peace with the Jews who were being drawn to the gospel message.

 

[bugkiller]

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

Revelation 22:12 “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done.

There would be two judgements, one according to whether we are justified by faith and one according to what we have done.

So you just dismiss it.

bugkiller

 

[Soyeong]

That does seem to be a very interesting fact here at CF.

bugkiller

The fact that I hold a minority position does concern me, but it is possible for the majority to be wrong about something, which appears to be the case in this regard.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Some people don't like long posts and weren't reading them because they were too long. Splitting my reply up into multiple posts somehow makes it shorter to read, though I haven't figured that part out yet.

I prefer short posts because they are easier to read and reply to. But long posts sometimes make good points that are worth reading.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Note how most all of the Law-centered groups draw their beliefs from what is not even doctrinal, but what is historical and transitional, the book of Acts. A book that merely bridges the gap between the Old and the New.

Well, The Acts of the Apostles also tells us that only four things were needed for the peace of the church while large numbers of Jews were coming to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. And I think that message is something that those advocating obedience to 613 commandments would not really be too happy to follow.

 

[Soyeong]

You only want us to agree with you about oral and written law. You do not really care if we understand it or not.

bugkiller

No, I would only want you to agree with me if you were convinced that I said something true. I'd love for you to understand me, but he's not even trying.

 

[Soyeong]

Neither are we talking about the whole world. We're talking about Christians. You claim Christians are obligated to the law. You are also claiming all Gentiles are obligated to the law. The Bible doesn't support you.

bugkiller

Naturally I hold my position because I think the Bible supports it and you hold your position because you think the Bible supports it, it just happens to be that you're wrong.

 

[Frogster]

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

Revelation 22:12 “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done.

There would be two judgements, one according to whether we are justified by faith and one according to what we have done.

But the important one is the main one, we are justified.

 

[Frogster]

Same for me. If you do go there don't mention Paul. There are a few of them who no longer post in this section because of Paul.

bugkiller

you're right...

 

[Frogster]

Same for me. If you do go there don't mention Paul. There are a few of them who no longer post in this section because of Paul.

bugkiller

bro, when you're hot you're hot, and when you're right you're right!

 

[Frogster]

The politics of power over others never changes, does it?


Did you once attend a MJ assembly?

Nope...sad but true.

 

[Frogster]

Naturally I hold my position because I think the Bible supports it and you hold your position because you think the Bible supports it, it just happens to be that you're wrong.

who posts more text, me or you?

 

[Soyeong]

There is a thread in the MJ section where some are advocating that gentile christians be circumcised. Click this link to see

So I guess some take the 613 commandments are reject what saint Paul says in Galatians.

Galatians 5:2 It is I, Paul, who am telling you that if you have yourselves circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you.​

The motivation for getting circumcised was important to Paul. If you get circumcised because you think that you need to become a Jewish proselyte in order to be saved, then you're doing it for the wrong reason. They are already justified by faith and were essentially rejecting Christ's gift in order to become justified through their own effort. The only to become justified is by keeping the law is by keeping it perfectly, so because all have sinned they were falling under condemnation. However, this does not mean circumcision in itself was bad.

I think about 80% of the males in the USA are circumcised Gentiles, does that mean that Christ is no value to them? I think not.

 

[Soyeong]

So you just dismiss it.

bugkiller

Hmmm?