Predestined

[BryanW92]

God failed with 1/3 of the angels so your ideas on sovereignty have just gone out the window. The Divine will can and has been violated by angels and men.

Did he fail with them? Reading Revelation, it seems that he has a pretty good end game planned for them, with absolute certainty that he will win. If they thwarted his will and he lost control of them, then how can he be so certain that he can beat them in the end?

 

[BryanW92]

The timeline of Salvation? Are you following along at all? I want to know who was saved at the cross? Calvinists proclaim that Jesus only died for the elect and the bible proclaims that Jesus died for all people. If I have mis-characterized your beliefs please set me straight. Did Jesus die for the whole world on the cross or just a subset of the whole world?

JLR1300 answered this in detail with scripture.

 

[BryanW92]

We have been here before and I believe that I stated that it is the Holy Spirit that leads all men to Christ not time or chance or a roll of the dice. So this we be the third time I have had to re-state my position. I'm sure it won't be the last.

You keep saying the same thing over and over again, so I respond with the same answer. Why must I invent a new answer every time you make the same repetitive statement?

 

[BryanW92]

So I believe in Christ and God, so following the calvinist statement, am I one of God's chosen people?

Yes. All who seek him are saved.

 

[JLR1300]

So I believe in Christ and God, so following the calvinist statement, am I one of God's chosen people?

"as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed" Acts 13:48

So yes, if you have believed then obviously you were appointed to eternal life.

Jesus said in John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out"

Since you have come to Jesus it is proof that the Father has granted it in your case, because as Jesus said in John 6:65, "no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father"

 

[Wryetui]

I find it very comforting then

 

[fozzy]

Did he fail with them? Reading Revelation, it seems that he has a pretty good end game planned for them, with absolute certainty that he will win. If they thwarted his will and he lost control of them, then how can he be so certain that he can beat them in the end?

So being lost and getting sent to hell is not thwarting God's plan? Angels and men were created perfect and sinless so falling into sin is a loss of control. If heaven were a factory God's workmanship would be called into question because he has a failure rate of 33 percent. That's not good and those defective products have caused everyone on earth to become defective. This casts a shadow on God.

 

[fozzy]

JLR1300 answered this in detail with scripture.

So typical when backed into a corner they will flee from the truth. I asked you what was your position on the cross I did not ask JLR. Your avoidance of the question shows that you are no different than the reprobates you condemn. It should be obvious who the real reprobate is.

 

[fozzy]

"as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed" Acts 13:48

So yes, if you have believed then obviously you were appointed to eternal life.

Jesus said in John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out"

Since you have come to Jesus it is proof that the Father has granted it in your case, because as Jesus said in John 6:65, "no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father"

These are all true statements when we understand that predestination is predicated by God's foreknowledge. Peter said that he was elect by the foreknowledge of God (1Peter 1:2) not by a fiat declaration by that forbids some to be saved while granting it to others. Some will never talk about that part of the equation.

 

[BryanW92]

So being lost and getting sent to hell is not thwarting God's plan? Angels and men were created perfect and sinless so falling into sin is a loss of control. If heaven were a factory God's workmanship would be called into question because he has a failure rate of 33 percent. That's not good and those defective products have caused everyone on earth to become defective. This casts a shadow on God.

Not really. If creation was a factory, God would be a specialist in rework with regards to humans at this time in history. The failure rate on the products that he has reworked is 0%.

 

[BryanW92]

So typical when backed into a corner they will flee from the truth. I asked you what was your position on the cross I did not ask JLR. Your avoidance of the question shows that you are no different than the reprobates you condemn. It should be obvious who the real reprobate is.

I am not backed into a corner. I just fully agreed with what he said. It's not worth the time to rewrite it my own words.

 

[BryanW92]

So being lost and getting sent to hell is not thwarting God's plan? Angels and men were created perfect and sinless so falling into sin is a loss of control. If heaven were a factory God's workmanship would be called into question because he has a failure rate of 33 percent. That's not good and those defective products have caused everyone on earth to become defective. This casts a shadow on God.

Let me ask you this: do you believe in Anthropogenic Global Climate Change/Warming/Cooling?

 

[fozzy]

Not really. If creation was a factory, God would be a specialist in rework with regards to humans at this time in history. The failure rate on the products that he has reworked is 0%.

The angels do not get reworked. They are being scheduled for extermination in the lake of fire. Violating God's will does have consequences. And I am not trying to play devil's advocate. All the angels were created perfect so they were fine when they left the factory. The defect occurred later on of their own devices so it can't really be charged back to God. His workmanship is perfect so the defect lies in the creation not the creator. God has rules and the rules were broken so the guilty will suffer the punishment.

 

[fozzy]

Let me ask you this: do you believe in Anthropogenic Global Climate Change/Warming/Cooling?

LOL

 

[BryanW92]

The angels do not get reworked. They are being scheduled for extermination in the lake of fire. Violating God's will does have consequences. And I am not trying to play devil's advocate. All the angels were created perfect so they were fine when they left the factory. The defect occurred later on of their own devices so it can't really be charged back to God. His workmanship is perfect so the defect lies in the creation not the creator. God has rules and the rules were broken so the guilty will suffer the punishment.

There isn't much actually said about the nature of angels in the bible. What is your source for all these "facts"?

 

[fozzy]

There isn't much actually said about the nature of angels in the bible. What is your source for all these "facts"?

The bible says that Satan was created perfect in all his ways until iniquity was found in him so I am assuming that the other angels were created perfect as well. Also Satan drew a third of the stars with him when he fell so I am assuming that 1/3 fell. The lake of fire is said to be primarily for the devil and his angels and everyone else who fails the judgment. There is a lot of assumption when it comes to angels because they so rarely come to town. Have you ever seen an angel? I saw some rock angels in the movie Noah. lol