Comic Book Religion: Which is your favorite?

[Gxg (G²)]

Fun fact: in the original comics, the substance that mutates the turtles into anthropomorphic creatures stems from the very canister that blinded Matt Murdock, a.k.a. "Daredevil".

Eastman and Laird have confirmed that the similarity was intentional, and that they did intend for that character to be Matt Murdoch (without naming him, for obvious copyright reasons).

I had no idea on that specific dynamic - that is truly fascinating to see the connections that were hidden but explicit

 

[Mumin]

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[freezerman2000]

What a bunch of non-religious/pagan/misleading comic books collection in this thread.

What did you expect?A thread about Chic Tracs?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

What a bunch of non-religious/pagan/misleading comic books collection in this thread.

Unless one actually intended on dealing with the thread OP, there is no reason to be present in simply speaking against it since the topic is for those studying differing religions and how they are reflected within the world of comics. That said, there is Nothing said in your comment which actually deals with the comics themselves actually (seeing how many were not pagan) - as there were Muslim ones discussed as well if actually reading the thread, as seen earlier:

Except that Joel Shuster and Jerry Siegel specifically patterned Supes after Moses.
The issue came up again when the latest Superman film so heavy-handedly compared its titular hero to Jesus at several points: here's a good article on that.

Fascinating as that is, it's even more interesting to me to see how Superman's religious background still would not allow him in our time to partner with others in religions others see as hostile. I am reminded of what occurred recently when they canceled a team-up between Superman and a Muslim superhero - making me wonder what would have happened if Superman was Muslim.

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For reference, one can go here:

• Why Did DC Cancel Superman’s Team-Up with a Muslim Hero?

Granted, they did have at one point a massive team-up between Muslim heroes and those in the D.C universe - the "American comic-book icons to break down post 9/11 prejudices" - the group was known as the 99 and it was fascinating to see how they developed.

For reference, one can go here:

• The 99: Batman's Muslim allies | Books | The Guardian

• Islamic Archetypes THE 99 Meet DC's JUSTICE LEAGUE In Oct. | Newsarama.com

For anyone interested,

It is rather fascinating that there is now a member of the Batman family who happens to be Muslim - known as Nightrunner, of the group Batman Incorporated. For reference, one can go to the following:

• Racists Totally Freak Out Over Muslim ‘Batman of Paris’

- and over recent years, they really have done amazing things in breaking things down. In example, the writers in X-Men have taken the platform about being "different" and have used that struggle to branch out into other areas that may be controversial for others not comfortable with certain differences. In example, the subject of women in Eastern Backgrounds are now being portrayed as heros in famous storylines. The example coming to mind is a character within the X-Men known as "Dust", who is Muslim. One can go here, for more and review the article entitled "Female, Muslim, and Mutant: A Critique of Muslim Women in Comic Books" (Part 1) and Female, Muslim, and Mutant: A Critique of Muslim Women in Comic ...(Part 2).

Dust's Legacy (A hero from X-Men) - YouTube

She's a mutant who is able to turn her body into organic sand and do amazing things...and being a comic book junkie and following the X-Men series, it was surprising for me to see them being willing to include someone from that background as a prominent mutant/heroine. The realm of comics has long been something that has been utilized to portray prominent issues of our day.

And of course, even outside of mutants like Dust, the battles of the X-Men internally have always been noteworthy in the themes they bring up. The developments of others such as Magneto and Xavier and seeing how their divergent philosophies are placed against one another is always amazing. Recently saw this and thought it was rather amazing in regards to some of my favorite characters and why I enjoy them so much and have growing up (Let Xavier and Magneto teach you how to serve others while protecting yourself ) - as it concerns differing personalities and how things go when you come at angles from two differing experiences. It truly shows how Xmen can be placed in the realm of mythopoesis and archetype.

• Magneto | Search Results | Arousing Grammar

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I was a HUGE fan of the 1980s cartoon series, (although the humor eluded me, or rather struck me as profoundly unfunny,) and was quite shocked when I got my hands on a copy of the original series, finding the violence depicted therein more than a little disturbing.

The humor of the original series itself was indeed unfunny and a bit ridiculous - but the violence of the original series was intensive and shocking.

• 8 Crazy Moments from the Original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Comic Series | Comicbook.com

To see the line "Raphael is cool but rude" from the 80s show and realize that they left out the part which noted that he really is a sociopath who will kill if pushed far enough...that stood out a lot:

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[Gxg (G²)]

"Superman will always be Space Moses, sent in a tiny capsule across the void to grow up on Earth, in Kansas, with the Kents."

In one series, they actually DID make Superman more than a Moses character, as he was literally made into a god among the city of Kandor due to his saving it. The story line I am talking about is known as Superman: Godfall...probably one of the best I've ever seen. One of the main characters who makes the story happen is called Lyla Lerrol - an alien empath (Born an empireth to a society that persecuted all aliens, but empireths in particular) living in The Bottled City of Kandor that was in The Fortress of Solitude. When Superman was trapped in the city and forgot who he was, she had wiped his memory and brought him down into Kandor, as part of a scheme to ascend to his world and convinced him that she was his wife initially. Eventually, she was finally able to drain her "husband"'s powers and use them to escape Kandor, which she considered to be ascending to the realm of the gods....while others in the city, such as one of the main antagonists known as Preus, were hunting down Kal-El due to believing him to be responsible for the murders of other Kandorians (which were illusions made by Lyla to frame Kal-El) and yet also being a problem due to being a xenophobe who was dedicated to being only for Kandorians rather than aliens whom he felt were impure - and also being one who alongside others worshipped the "Superman" (since time in Kandor goes faster - thus making Superman's rescue of them/leaving them alone for 3yrs an equivalent of a century of time where others made a religion out of him). With Preus being with the Citizen's Patrol Corps, as the alternate dimension Kandor populated by multiple alien species, he represents a society obsessed with purity and represents religious fanatiscism.

As another noted best, this is the most theologically provocative Superman story since Marlon Brando liturgically blessed his one and only son and sent him to Earth in a Nativity Star-ship. Joe Kelly’s script finally exploits the rich mythological potential inherent in Superman and makes you wish you’d thought of it first.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Excellent presentation on the subject of the OP that I felt was very timely...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNiUQeCU3pY

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Forgot to mention from earlier stories similar to the ones which had religions set up around others taming primitive worlds - with this one being a reflection of Native American Religions...AS one of my favorite characters is known as Turok the Dinosaur Hunter. He's a Native American hero who was sent to a world known as the Lost World....and for more info, Turok refers to any individuals who have attained the title of "Turok" or have been given such name in various media, comics, movies, etc. Turok was a comic series that began in the early 1950s and lasted all the way until the early 80s. ...and as another noted best, "At the time of its inception, back when Life ran their famous World We Live In issue, with sprawling prehistoric murals by paleo-artist Rudolph Zallinger, dinosaurs were all the rage, as were American Indians (now called Native Americans). So this comic combined the tow to great effect."

For more information, one can examine Native Americans in Comic Books: A Critical Study

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R0_BLaTW64

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRz5NSBUGZQ

Throughout history, a Native American family lineage has secretly protected Earth from the invasion of races of evolved dinosaurs and other alien life forms which come from a world of constant chaos, The Lost Land of Galyanna.​

Keeping the issue in mind, as it concerns Native American superheroes, I forgot to mention how there are actually many differing super-powered beings reflecting Native American culture. One of them is an older series called "Tribal Force" (the first team to feature Native American superheroes), which is actually being brought back..

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And then, of course, there are others which people enjoyed but also felt had a lot of stereotypes. Individuals such as Red Wolf (The first Native American superhero), in example....more from Native Americans in Comic Books: A Critical Study

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[Gxg (G²)]

Christian comic book characters, pretty sure Captain America is a christian.

As a living stereotype, it'd be almost impossible for him not to be.

I think, with others like Captain America, that he's not truly a stereotype when it comes to anything Christian. Believing that there's a God doesn't mean one does all the other actions associated with Christian behavior.

As said earlier, I'm always shocked how many champion for the man and yet ignore how he has had a long history of showing anti-mutant behavioral tendencies when it comes to his patriosm....supporting the "good" mutants but not challenging governmental policies that harm them since he has supported locking them up on many occasions as if they were guilty whenever a problem arose.

And you never see him explictly doing any real fighting in the name of God - his religion is more so like the U.S. where it seems to be Deism in the same way the Founding Fathers had a patriotic Deism. And how often did you see Steve go out of the way to address other issues in his time like racism or the Holocaust explictly?

• Movies]"Movies" vs. "Films" in Oscar Speeches, 2005-2014 | Overthinking It | Captain America, the Holocaust, and Racism[/url]

[/LIST]

That said, I do think the character is still one of the most amazing characters ever...with a lot of powerful themes centering around who he is (including the Civil War arc when it came to government resistance to being signed up/registered rather than protecting the principle of privacy)...

It was powerful when seeing how Steve Rogers - imperfect as he is - saw the Superhero Registration Act (as a stand in for the Patriot Act) taking away due process, taking away Fourth Amendment rights, taking away a citizen’s right of who to associate with; all these and more, drove Captain America to oppose his government.

And there have been other things which I am glad Captain America has stood against as well...

And yet nonetheless, he is human enough to make mistakes/do things which make you wonder "Contradiction" - like his willingness to do torture ...letting others do it, of course, while he condemns it...

​

And due to the fact that he has grown up indoctrinated into the American ideal at multiple points, his humanity in not always seeing what's wrong is what makes him fascinating....

• Captain America (2011) – A Star-Spangled Slave? | Ruthless Culture

• Captain America punches faces, Pt. 2 | Arousing Grammar

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[Gxg (G²)]

I think, with others like Captain America, that he's not truly a stereotype

And on the issue of stereotype - as it concerns differing ways that plays out - I am glad that they actually had it where Captain IS Black, with the Falcon replacing him after he stepped down..

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Very encouraging to see the way that things have shifted - although for true comic fans, it is a bit of justice in light of the fact that the original Captain America was a black man who underwent treatment with a test-serum - similar to the Tuskegee Project. For reference:

• Robert Morales, Truth & Reconciliation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWEtIVz3XjA

• Is The World Ready for a Black Captain America? | the m0vie blog

 

[jacknife]

Linkara is the only reason I know what little I know of comic books lol.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Linkara is the only reason I know what little I know of comic books lol.

Cool...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I think, with others like Captain America, that he's not truly a stereotype when it comes to anything Christian. Believing that there's a God doesn't mean one does all the other actions associated with Christian behavior.

As said earlier, I'm always shocked how many champion for the man and yet ignore how he has had a long history of showing anti-mutant behavioral tendencies when it comes to his patriosm....supporting the "good" mutants but not challenging governmental policies that harm them since he has supported locking them up on many occasions as if they were guilty whenever a problem arose.

And you never see him explictly doing any real fighting in the name of God - his religion is more so like the U.S. where it seems to be Deism in the same way the Founding Fathers had a patriotic Deism. And how often did you see Steve go out of the way to address other issues in his time like racism or the Holocaust explictly?

• Movies]"Movies" vs. "Films" in Oscar Speeches, 2005-2014 | Overthinking It | Captain America, the Holocaust, and Racism[/url]

[/LIST]

That said, I do think the character is still one of the most amazing characters ever...with a lot of powerful themes centering around who he is (including the Civil War arc when it came to government resistance to being signed up/registered rather than protecting the principle of privacy)...

It was powerful when seeing how Steve Rogers - imperfect as he is - saw the Superhero Registration Act (as a stand in for the Patriot Act) taking away due process, taking away Fourth Amendment rights, taking away a citizen’s right of who to associate with; all these and more, drove Captain America to oppose his government.

And there have been other things which I am glad Captain America has stood against as well...

And yet nonetheless, he is human enough to make mistakes/do things which make you wonder "Contradiction" - like his willingness to do torture ...letting others do it, of course, while he condemns it...

​

And due to the fact that he has grown up indoctrinated into the American ideal at multiple points, his humanity in not always seeing what's wrong is what makes him fascinating....

• Captain America (2011) – A Star-Spangled Slave? | Ruthless Culture

• Captain America punches faces, Pt. 2 | Arousing Grammar

​

Cool seeing where Captain America has met President Obama...

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And it is interesting to see how those who have taken patriotism to religious levels with saying all things about America are "great", the earlier version of Captain America was a good critique on that logic..more found in “America is a piece of trash!” « PrettyFakes

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[Booko]

Cool thread to read - wish I had anything much to add, but I stopped my Conan (and Cerebus) habit years ago when we had kids. Well, darn.

As for Hollywood and the issue of diversity, it seems complex in many ways, but the money backers don't like risk much.

I and plenty of my friends are hoping they do Black Panther and do it right, but we won't exactly hold our breath either. We've seen too many times when they did a lousy job and the movie didn't do well, and then blamed it on "well people just aren't interested in seeing that." Well they might be if it was any good, dude.

I think it would be fascinating to explore a culture that isn't so...US oriented for a change. There's a whole world out there, so why are we ignoring it?

I also don't get why the moguls in Hollywood couldn't think that Wonder Woman doesn't just deserve her own movie and not as a sidekick to Superman.

They sure didn't have a tough time introducing Thor and Iron Man and Cap separately before they joined in the Avengers, amirite?

Then again, DC is just kind of...slow.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Cool thread to read - wish I had anything much to add, but I stopped my Conan (and Cerebus) habit years ago when we had kids. Well, darn.

As for Hollywood and the issue of diversity, it seems complex in many ways, but the money backers don't like risk much.

I and plenty of my friends are hoping they do Black Panther and do it right, but we won't exactly hold our breath either. We've seen too many times when they did a lousy job and the movie didn't do well, and then blamed it on "well people just aren't interested in seeing that." Well they might be if it was any good, dude.

I think it would be fascinating to explore a culture that isn't so...US oriented for a change. There's a whole world out there, so why are we ignoring it?

I also don't get why the moguls in Hollywood couldn't think that Wonder Woman doesn't just deserve her own movie and not as a sidekick to Superman.

They sure didn't have a tough time introducing Thor and Iron Man and Cap separately before they joined in the Avengers, amirite?

Then again, DC is just kind of...slow.

Perhaps it's just me - but did you meant his for the Black Panther thread I had made here? If so, you can just post the comment you made here there

 

[jacknife]

Speaking of captain America did you know that the creators of him received death threats from pro-Nazi movements in America? When he was created we weren't yet in the second world war. Actually the mayor of new york himself who has a fan promised protection. He's a bit on this I found I'll try to find more info Comic Book Urban Legends Revealed #93 - Comics Should Be Good! @ Comic Book ResourcesComics Should Be Good! @ Comic Book Resources

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Speaking of captain America did you know that the creators of him received death threats from pro-Nazi movements in America? When he was created we weren't yet in the second world war. Actually the mayor of new york himself who has a fan promised protection. He's a bit on this I found I'll try to find more info Comic Book Urban Legends Revealed #93 - Comics Should Be Good! @ Comic Book ResourcesComics Should Be Good! @ Comic Book Resources

Wow - I had no idea on that history occurring with the threats. Wild to consider since you don't hear of that context with regards to the hero...

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Captain America's roots are just as jingoistic and nationalistic as the meanest piece of Nazi propaganda you might find. In fact, if superhero comic books had been a thing in Germany at that point of history, I'm pretty sure they'd come up with a similarly blonde, blue-eyed übermensch whacking their enemies in the face with his superior physique.
The only reason why the original comic's grotesque nature does not register with us is because we know just how bad the Nazi regime was.

Anyway, the character has progressed quite a bit since then. I am especially fond of "CA 2 - The Winter Soldier" in the MCU, which feels like a giant, unabashedly and devastatingly critical look at post-9/11 America, alluding to the NSA-affair, killer drones, and becoming just like the people you originally set out to oppose.

 

[gord44]

Anyway, the character has progressed quite a bit since then. I am especially fond of "CA 2 - The Winter Soldier" in the MCU, which feels like a giant, unabashedly and devastatingly critical look at post-9/11 America, alluding to the NSA-affair, killer drones, and becoming just like the people you originally set out to oppose.

I agree. It was a good flick. Watched it the other night for the second time.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Captain America's roots are just as jingoistic and nationalistic as the meanest piece of Nazi propaganda you might find. In fact, if superhero comic books had been a thing in Germany at that point of history, I'm pretty sure they'd come up with a similarly blonde, blue-eyed übermensch whacking their enemies in the face with his superior physique.
The only reason why the original comic's grotesque nature does not register with us is because we know just how bad the Nazi regime was.

Anyway, the character has progressed quite a bit since then. I am especially fond of "CA 2 - The Winter Soldier" in the MCU, which feels like a giant, unabashedly and devastatingly critical look at post-9/11 America, alluding to the NSA-affair, killer drones, and becoming just like the people you originally set out to oppose.

Loved "The Winter Soldier" movie, as the entire concept was truly brilliant and I felt at times that they really spoke on things that people may not feel are comfortable subjects. One of the best critiques I've seen in some time....

• Captain America 2: Winter Soldier is Real | Jay's Analysis

• Stillness in the Storm : Disclosure: Captain America: Winter Soldier Exposes the Illuminati and their Agenda - As discussed by David Wilcock

• The Gospel and the Avengers, Part 2

• Activist Post: New Captain America Film Takes On Obama’s Kill List and the New World Order

Loved the fact that what Steve Rogers was told to stand for was something which was no longer simple or reflective in the organization he was fighting for....

And as another review noted best:

The ethical conundrum in The Winter Soldier is pretty clearly about the War on Terror, and the NSA spying program, and drone strikes. How much are we willing to compromise our principles, and spy on and kill innocent people, in order to feel safe? As the trailers make clear, Captain America doesn't have to hesitate: He immediately chooses liberty over security, because that's who Captain America is.

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And of course:

Around the halfway mark, Steve Rogers, AKA - Captain America, played by Chris Evans and Natasha Romanoff, AKA - The Black Widow, played by Scarlett Johansson, uncover the true history of S.H.I.E.L.D in a brilliant monologue by former Nazi (HYDRA) scientist Arnim Zola...now a consciousness inside of a 1970’s super computer…

Dr. Zola: HYDRA was founded on the belief that humanity could not be trusted with its own freedom. What we did not realize was that if you tried to take that freedom, they resist. The war taught us much. Humanity needed to surrender its freedom willingly. After the war, S.H.I.E.L.D. was founded, and I was recruited. The new HYDRA grew, a beautiful parasite inside S.H.I.E.L.D. For 70 years, HYDRA has been secretly feeding crises, reaping war. And when history did not cooperate, history was changed...HYDRA created a world so chaotic that humanity is finally ready to sacrifice its freedom to gain its security. Once the purification process is complete, HYDRA's New World Order will arise. We won, Captain. Your death amounts to the same as your life, a zero sum!
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A New World Order is always on someone’s agenda and whenever it’s uttered it leads to no good. In the film, Captain America, with his 1940’s sensibilities, is constantly skeptical of any argument in favour of authoritarianism...no matter how reasonable or intelligent it sounds. By the end of the film we bear witness to the reality of “enlightened security” in the form of gunpoint commands, murder, and attempted mass genocide. A generation of young film goers have just been introduced to a narrative of anti-libertarian outcomes, that only Captain America’s libertarian values were able to sto​

That said, I love the character of the Winter Soldier and what he represents when seeing how complex it is for characters to support ideals and yet be victims of systems taking away from them in so many ways that it's hard for them to truly stay balanced and on track in doing what's right....and having pasts that are not clearly in the category of "right vs. wrong" all the time....