Hyper grace and the great lie

[BryanW92]

What it seems to me and I have been following and commenting on three or four of Lori's threads is that she does not have a clear understanding of what certain words mean.

Examples of this may be grace, justification, sanctification, sin and how these words pertain back to salvation and what Jesus did for us on the cross. I believe that if she would seek to clarify and understand these things, that she would see that they do not take anything away from the finished work of Christ.

It seems she is defending against these words, mistakenly thinking that they take away from what Jesus did. I think that she compares each word to the finished work of Christ and then defends Christ, instead of seeing that the words are part of what we receive and part of what has been done for us. It is in a premise of defending against these other things that she views them, not understanding their meaning in a bigger picture.

I get that from her posts too. She needs to sit down with people in her church and ask these questions. The coldness of typed text cannot convey what a person sitting across the table can convey. 36 years in a church and not understanding the basics of grace sends chills down my spine. What do they talk about?

 

[lori milne]

Amen to that!! Do you participate in bible study classes at your church? You seem to be searching for an answer that would be cleared up in an hour of bible study with some other Christians. The internet is the wrong place to find answers. We should always take our questions to our local church where people can look us in the eye as they hear our questions and we can see them as they help us find answers. If you've already tried the local church and "everyone there is wrong", then perhaps you need to re-examine your own findings.

I do understand all that I've learned about grace from my church's my issue isn't misunderstanding, its not believing there are direct contradictions in the bible and what jesus says sin no more be perfect as I am and what my pastors proclaim it to mean especially if I'm ACTUALLY reading the words
I don't feel some / a lot of people don't actually fully read on there own to see clearly what the word says not the world '
I'm still open to learning more this forum is to full of scoffers that it's hard for me to learn much
But I know Reading the word on my own is Exactly what jesus teaches us and if me believing in can live sin free/ being righteous just trusting
Trusting in him then AMEN not your wrong ?!
That again just seems totally off
Thanks again for the time you've spent
God bless
May God keep you in his favor

 

[lori milne]

What it seems to me and I have been following and commenting on three or four of Lori's threads is that she does not have a clear understanding of what certain words mean. Examples of this may be grace, justification, sanctification, sin and how these words pertain back to salvation and what Jesus did for us on the cross. I believe that if she would seek to clarify and understand these things, that she would see that they do not take anything away from the finished work of Christ. It seems she is defending against these words, mistakenly thinking that they take away from what Jesus did. I think that she compares each word to the finished work of Christ and then defends Christ, instead of seeing that the words are part of what we receive and part of what has been done for us. It is in a premise of defending against these other things that she views them, not understanding their meaning in a bigger picture.

Well
Since you insist on commenting about me & on my life but not to me ?
Im inclined to involve you once again just so in not being rude.
I'll ask you a simple questions
If your sins are Coved because your saved by grace
Then a Christina who is gay or an abortion dr sins are Also covered according to saved by grace because all sins are being covered.
Then do you agree with abortion and sodomy ?

(Btw just to be clear on "my answer " before anyone assume I'm gay or an abortion dr also since no one has been able to understand me correctly.
My faith pushes me to righteousness and that keeps me favored in Gods eyes so all sins must be repented of and that's my stance'
lying adultery sodomy and murder )

Again just another question that pushes me to search for the answers
Amen

 

[BryanW92]

I'm still open to learning more this forum is to full of scoffers that it's hard for me to learn much

This is the problem with the printed word. You come across as trying to instruct us rather than seeking to learn anything. If we try to teach, you call us scoffers.

Many of us went through the apparent contradictions between grace (as it is taught by many churches) and salvation and the law already. Remember that it you who brought the RCG into these forums, so you must bear quite a bit of the blame here. Fortunately, you are not associated with that "church" and much of the scoffing has been at the RCG postings.

 

[lori milne]

This is the problem with the printed word. You come across as trying to instruct us rather than seeking to learn anything. If we try to teach, you call us scoffers. Many of us went through the apparent contradictions between grace (as it is taught by many churches) and salvation and the law already. Remember that it you who brought the RCG into these forums, so you must bear quite a bit of the blame here. Fortunately, you are not associated with that "church" and much of the scoffing has been at the RCG postings.

I have had a great time on my pursuit of the truth
And pray I don't become or stay closed minded .
In the mean time is it harmful to live in righteousness and so it not just because the word of God says obey but because you love God your father and want to obey?
Does that mentality condemn others! I hope not
. Because "I can't see "any other reason why my search would offend anyone!
This is all based off scripture contradicting what I've been taught by the mainstream churches today.
Maybe I dont trust man.
Maybe I don't trust God
Either way it's a search that will defiantly lead To an answer if I keep searching for my FAITH in the word
Amen

 

[lori milne]

Well Since you insist on commenting about me & on my life but not to me ? Im inclined to involve you once again just so im not being rude and because it's getting weird.
I'll ask a simple questions.
If your sins are Coved because your saved by grace and we fall short.
Then a Christian who is gay or an abortion dr sins are Also covered according to saved by grace because all sins are being covered. No one can pluck them out of his hand,
Then do you agree with abortion and sodomy ? (Btw just to be clear on "my answer " before anyone assume I'm gay or an abortion dr also since no one has been able to understand me correctly. My faith pushes me to righteousness and that keeps me favored in Gods eyes so all sins must be repented of and that's my stance' lying adultery sodomy and murder )

This one gets me a little confused because of hypocrisy

 

[ToBeBlessed]

I have had a great time on my pursuit of the truth
And pray I don't become or stay closed minded .
In the mean time is it harmful to live in righteousness and so it not just because the word of God says obey but because you love God your father and want to obey?
Does that mentality condemn others! I hope not
. Because "I can't see "any other reason why my search would offend anyone!
This is all based off scripture contradicting what I've been taught by the mainstream churches today.
Maybe I dont trust man.
Maybe I don't trust God
Either way it's a search that will defiantly lead To an answer if I keep searching for my FAITH in the word
Amen

Well, what I think is that i hope that you eventually figure it out. The Holy Spirit will let us believe in error if we harden our hearts to hearing and learning truth.

What does seem insulting at times is when you end a post with a little quip like "Read the bible" or "So you can learn" or "I will teach you if you want" and stuff like that. That's all pride there baby. Aint no doubt about it when you put it's part of a post.

 

[lori milne]

We all have our own beliefs and understandings
We Hold to as facts some times in our lives.
I'm Humbled by the spirit and pray i stay that way on my search for true understanding and wisdom
My search is a search for my faith
Which I have convictions about obedience but i do have to be in the spirit as well and not stub urn like a mule lol


God understandeth the way thereof, and he knoweth the place thereof. For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven; To make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure. When he made a decree for the rain, and a way for the lightning of the thunder: Then did he see it, and declare it; he prepared it, yea, and searched it out. And unto man he said,

Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding
Job‬ [bless and do not curse]28‬:[bless and do not curse]23-28‬ KJV

 

[FanthatSpark]

Outside looking in,

Your church "Now" stands for service not belief for contradictions are arising in the teachings. However, there are people there you care deeply about and are friends and maybe family. Division is now manifest as Jesus tells about and mentioned in this thread. One stated the coldness of this format and there can be no better truth than that. This one tried to teach "Concept" and people that live with no knowledge but concept is strong in them. Bryan is teaching context of the Word. tobeblessed teaches knowledge, however, her meekness can not be expressed in this cold format. This one had to do what Bryan says not to do to come full circle in using the Word scriptures applied to self (Not us) out of context to fix moral compass back to love for the singular church inside of this heart placed there by God. That was for me, not Bryan, to sip the milk . Me and Bryan discussed this area in months gone past about Cherry picking, ya remember that Bryan . For me, God had to build this one up first, and that required scripture to apply to self . For Bryan it is wrong, for me in those months it was right. However, one grows , the key is ... We grow .

We are the vessels, flawed each and every one of us . Life is the canvas and it seems now God is the teacher after 36 years of putting faith in people to guide your soul Lori. Today you seem to be following scripture in Prov.3-5 and Matt 22:37, and division as talked about in this thread is now taking place inside of you Lori. This is good . Even the preacher in a God first mind set is only a human and not the be all tell all. That produces worship qualities in the man and man is all he is, just like you Lori . It is God and you. God and these writings by vessels, our different styles, but a oneness in the search in what ???? .......... .

In closing, think upon when we invoke Jesus..."In Jesus name we pray" in Jesus name we test the spirit 1John 4:1. In Jesus name is... 1 John 4:8 for Jesus is the trinity in part, so we invoke love and in translation of conceptual thinking that translates to "In loves name we pray" "In loves name we test the spirits". Who is selfless enough to die for the undeserved? Love is, in its purest form. . Will further this in Concept thread. Blessings all .

 

[lori milne]

Outside looking in, Your church "Now" stands for service not belief for contradictions are arising in the teachings. However, there are people there you care deeply about and are friends and maybe family. Division is now manifest as Jesus tells about and mentioned in this thread. One stated the coldness of this format and there can be no better truth than that. This one tried to teach "Concept" and people that live with no knowledge but concept is strong in them. Bryan is teaching context of the Word. tobeblessed teaches knowledge, however, her meekness can not be expressed in this cold format. This one had to do what Bryan says not to do to come full circle in using the Word scriptures applied to self (Not us) out of context to fix moral compass back to love for the singular church inside of this heart placed there by God. That was for me, not Bryan, to sip the milk . Me and Bryan discussed this area in months gone past about Cherry picking, ya remember that Bryan . For me, God had to build this one up first, and that required scripture to apply to self . For Bryan it is wrong, for me in those months it was right. However, one grows , the key is ... We grow . We are the vessels, flawed each and every one of us . Life is the canvas and it seems now God is the teacher after 36 years of putting faith in people to guide your soul Lori. Today you seem to be following scripture in Prov.3-5 and Matt 22:37, and division as talked about in this thread is now taking place inside of you Lori. This is good . Even the preacher in a God first mind set is only a human and not the be all tell all. That produces worship qualities in the man and man is all he is, just like you Lori . It is God and you. God and these writings by vessels, our different styles, but a oneness in the search in what ???? .......... . In closing, think upon when we invoke Jesus..."In Jesus name we pray" in Jesus name we test the spirit 1John 4:1. In Jesus name is... 1 John 4:8 for Jesus is the trinity in part, so we invoke love and in translation of conceptual thinking that
translates to "In loves name we pray" "In loves name we test the spirits". Who is selfless enough to die for the undeserved? Love is, in its purest form. . Will further this in Concept thread. Blessings all .

It is about being sons and daughters of such a great and LOVING GOD and brethren in the faith for iron to sharpen iron not to separate or debate I truly try to be on this search with out stumbling anyone's faith! So hard so far !!
But I forget the most important commandments are that is to love our God and the second each other!
We do get stumbled so much about right and wrong but that devil can only and try to take advantage of that moral standard in us.
It is the spirit in us that will give us the breast plate needed to with satins the firerey darts

Amen
💜💜

 

[ToBeBlessed]

I'll ask a simple questions.
If your sins are Coved because your saved by grace and we fall short.
Then a Christian who is gay or an abortion dr sins are Also covered according to saved by grace because all sins are being covered. No one can pluck them out of his hand,
Then do you agree with abortion and sodomy ? (Btw just to be clear on "my answer " before anyone assume I'm gay or an abortion dr also since no one has been able to understand me correctly. My faith pushes me to righteousness and that keeps me favored in Gods eyes so all sins must be repented of and that's my stance' lying adultery sodomy and murder )

This one gets me a little confused because of hypocrisy

Jesus death on the cross for the forgiveness of sin is sufficient to forgive a person who has committed murder and who has committed sexual sin (this is your abortion doctor and gay man & sodomy scenarios).

Now, the presumption would be that both of these people have been saved by Jesus.

I understand that you feel that your faith has pushed you to righteousness. That is good.

However, God see's any sin, as sin. Therefore, if someone would lie to their boss and say they are sick when they are actually going on vacation a day early that is sin. If a person steals their friends Coach bag because they've always wanted one, that is sin. If I find a cat in my backyard, but see a sign that the owners are looking for the cat, but ignore the sign and keep the cat anyway. That is sin.

It is not our job to give a higher priority to one sin over the other in judgement of anyone else.

Our sins are still sins.

We have all been given grace which is God's unmerited favor in that He is just and faithful to forgive us our sins.

1 John 1:8-10
If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

Isaiah 59:2
“But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He will not hear”

​

 

[lori milne]

So then they are forgiven and covered
According to OSAS or saved by grace.

I do feel if did have a better understanding of that I would agree
But again I'm still not their with it.

Thanks for the answer

 

[BryanW92]

So then they are forgiven and covered
According to OSAS or saved by grace.

I do feel if did have a better understanding of that I would agree
But again I'm still not their with it.

Thanks for the answer

We get too hung up on the how, and why and WHO is getting saved. After all, there are people who are worse than me and they sure don't deserve the salvation I got! Right?

There is only one person in the universe that we need to worry about, salvation-wise--and that person is me (or you).

Does the murderer get saved, even if he committed a murder after becoming a Christian? Who knows. We know that scripture says he does, but does it really say THAT?? He's a murderer! He can't possibly deserve salvation.

The bottom line is that NONE of us deserve to be saved. Zero. And there is nothing that we can do to change that or to save ourselves. So, whatever we get is a gift.

With that in mind, I'm not going to begrudge the murderer his place in heaven if that's where he is supposed to end up. It's not about OSAS or Perseverance of the Saints. It's about God doing what God chooses to do. He isn't Buddha or allah, deciding how you spend eternity based on a balance sheet of good acts and evil acts. He is God, who came to earth as a human to make the sacrifice for me and you and for the murderer.

 

[Norah63]

It does seem that universal salvation (the unrepentant murder goes to heaven too) has taken root in many circles today. I heard it mentioned in church just this last Sunday.
Where will the hyper end?

 

[ToBeBlessed]

So then they are forgiven and covered
According to OSAS or saved by grace.

I do feel if did have a better understanding of that I would agree
But again I'm still not their with it.

Thanks for the answer

Thank you. I appreciate that.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

It does seem that universal salvation (the unrepentant murder goes to heaven too) has taken root in many circles today. I heard it mentioned in church just this last Sunday.
Where will the hyper end?

Let's just remember though that each of us will be judged on Judgement Day. Jesus said that we will be judged on what we have done that is good and receive rewards and we would be judged on the negative things that we do. Just because someone is not going to hell, doesn't mean that there is no judgement for them. We don't know how Jesus will handle those situations.

What we do know though is that Jesus is the perfect judge as He knows the heart. I know that no one is pulling anything over on the Lord. Whether people choose to believe it or not, no one's pulling anything over on God.

I am content with that. We know that the Lord is righteous and just.

 

[lori milne]

Let's just remember though that each of us will be judged on Judgement Day. Jesus said that we will be judged on what we have done that is good and receive rewards and we would be judged on the negative things that we do. Just because someone is not going to hell, doesn't mean that there is no judgement for them. We don't know how Jesus will handle those situations. What we do know though is that Jesus is the perfect judge as He knows the heart. I know that no one is pulling anything over on the Lord. Whether people choose to believe it or not, no one's pulling anything over on God. I am content with that. We know that the Lord is righteous and just.

What is the book of life then?

 

[BryanW92]

It does seem that universal salvation (the unrepentant murder goes to heaven too) has taken root in many circles today. I heard it mentioned in church just this last Sunday.
Where will the hyper end?

Universal salvation refers to everyone going to heaven, not the murderer who accepts Jesus. Nothing gets more hyper-grace than universal salvation.

 

[lori milne]

It does seem that universal salvation (the unrepentant murder goes to heaven too) has taken root in many circles today. I heard it mentioned in church just this last Sunday. Where will the hyper end?

It is only 1 of 2 things either we are all forgiven without repentance or we are all not, and then made accountable to repent for our sin.

 

[lori milne]

Universal salvation refers to everyone going to heaven, not the murderer who accepts Jesus. Nothing gets more hyper-grace than universal salvation.

So do you think the murderer isn't able to go to heaven if he is saved by grace/ OSAS If no one can snatch him out of his hand