Gorilla Genome

[Loudmouth]

Stalin tried it. It never worked.

From what I read, they were very limited experiments.

Besides, it really doesn't matter anyway. It is expected that two lineages will diverge far enough that cross-breeding is no longer possible.

 

[JacksBratt]

From what I read, they were very limited experiments.

Besides, it really doesn't matter anyway. It is expected that two lineages will diverge far enough that cross-breeding is no longer possible.

When you say "expected" do you mean "they don't know". Is it another evolutionary guess because it has never been actually observed?

 

[Loudmouth]

When you say "expected" do you mean "they don't know".

I mean what I wrote. I mean "expected".

Is it another evolutionary guess because it has never been actually observed?

You have already agreed that it is observed. Gorillas and humans don't reproduce. We have mountains of evidence demonstrating that they share a common ancestor.

We can use the example of horses and donkeys if you want. Do you doubt that they share a common ancestor?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

How the earliest genomes came to be is not known. However, to evidence common ancestry between gorillas and humans, you hardly need to go back to the beginning of life.

How did we even get to 'gorillas'?

 

[Loudmouth]

How did we even get to 'gorillas'?

The same way we got to chihuahuas.

 

[JacksBratt]

I mean what I wrote. I mean "expected".



You have already agreed that it is observed. Gorillas and humans don't reproduce. We have mountains of evidence demonstrating that they share a common ancestor.

We can use the example of horses and donkeys if you want. Do you doubt that they share a common ancestor?

What is this mountain of evidence you speak of?

 

[SpyderByte]

What is this mountain of evidence you speak of?

You'll be lucky to see a molehill.... -_-

 

[lasthero]

You'll be lucky to see a molehill.... -_-

You miss a lot of things when you refuse to look.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Hi Mark,

Just curious, what do you mean by Creationists are having some fun with this one? Who are 'Creationists' in your assessment?

Fundamentalist theists who (mostly) deliberatly misrepresent any scientific theories (or facts) if it contradicts their a priori dogmatic religious beliefs that their deity of choice created everything and anything in some specific way, which they read in their holy scriptures.

 

[DogmaHunter]

When you say "expected" do you mean "they don't know". Is it another evolutionary guess because it has never been actually observed?

No, it's pretty much a fact.

Take a population, split it in two and genetically isolate one from the other.
After X amount of generations, problems will occur when attempting to reproduce
After X+Y amount of generations, interbreeding by an large will no longer work.
After X + Y + Z amount of generations, interbreeding will never work.

This is how evolution creates several new species starting from just 1 species.

 

[SpyderByte]

You miss a lot of things when you refuse to look.

This is funny! Speak without knowledge and all you do is prove your ignorance! Lol! Like I haven't dealt with this subject for years or anything! It's always the same. Here's a brief summary of my experience for you:
Evolutionist:"THERE'S A MOUNTAIN OF EVIDENCE!" Creationist:"Ok, can you show us this mountain?" Evolutionist:"YOUR JUST ANTI-SCIENCE!" Creationist:"I just asked for the evidence." Evolutionist:"YOU JUST CAN SEE IT CAUSE YOU HATE SCIENCE! WE UNDERSTAND IT AND YOU CREOTARDS ARE JUST STUPID!"
Creationist:"Ok so still waiting for that evidence..." Evolutionist:"YOU STUPID <explicitive> <explicitive> CREOTARD!"
Creationist:"I see..."

 

[Shemjaza]

This is funny! Speak without knowledge and all you do is prove your ignorance! Lol! Like I haven't dealt with this subject for years or anything! It's always the same. Here's a brief summary of my experience for you:
Evolutionist:"THERE'S A MOUNTAIN OF EVIDENCE!" Creationist:"Ok, can you show us this mountain?" Evolutionist:"YOUR JUST ANTI-SCIENCE!" Creationist:"I just asked for the evidence." Evolutionist:"YOU JUST CAN SEE IT CAUSE YOU HATE SCIENCE! WE UNDERSTAND IT AND YOU CREOTARDS ARE JUST STUPID!"
Creationist:"Ok so still waiting for that evidence..." Evolutionist:"YOU STUPID <explicitive> <explicitive> CREOTARD!"
Creationist:"I see..."

Okay, how about all the fossils showing transitions between now separate species of animal?
How about the geological position of the fossils show that older species where simpler and less distinct?
How about the pattern of ERV insertions that show a nested hierarchy of life, particularly between humans and other great apes?

Or you can ignore this and other evidence and keep bearing false witness against your neighbours.

 

[SpyderByte]

Okay, how about all the fossils showing transitions between now separate species of animal?

Few, if any exist, and none in the nice neat order evolutionists need to "prove" evolution. The only place the fossil record is in the correct order, is in textbooks.

about the geological position of the fossils show that older species where simpler and less distinct?

See above. Also, this is incorrect. In almost no place do the fossils line up as needed. Remember the horse evolution sequence? Small problem, "modern" horses are found in layers that predate the "ancient" horse. Remember tiktalik? Oops! Modern foot prints were found in layers dated older than tiktalik. And on and on and on...

How about the pattern of ERV insertions that show a nested hierarchy of life, particularly between humans and other great apes?

Oy, how many times are we going to go over this? Gimme a minute and I'll post a link to a thread here that shows your statement is incorrect. There's too much information to rehash it all here.

Or you can ignore this and other evidence and keep bearing false witness against your neighbours.

What evidence? And bearing false witness against your neighbor? Really? Do you know the context of that verse or do you just like tossing it around when it suits you? Speaking of ignorance....

 

[lasthero]

This is funny! Speak without knowledge and all you do is prove your ignorance! Lol! Like I haven't dealt with this subject for years or anything! It's always the same. Here's a brief summary of my experience for you:
Evolutionist:"THERE'S A MOUNTAIN OF EVIDENCE!" Creationist:"Ok, can you show us this mountain?" Evolutionist:"YOUR JUST ANTI-SCIENCE!" Creationist:"I just asked for the evidence." Evolutionist:"YOU JUST CAN SEE IT CAUSE YOU HATE SCIENCE! WE UNDERSTAND IT AND YOU CREOTARDS ARE JUST STUPID!"
Creationist:"Ok so still waiting for that evidence..." Evolutionist:"YOU STUPID <explicitive> <explicitive> CREOTARD!"
Creationist:"I see..."

I think you're going to some bad sites, then.

I can recommend one that's pretty good, thoguh. With actual scientists who work in the field and quickly respond to creationists in a timely, professional manner. Would you like to go there?

 

[Aman777]

This is funny! Speak without knowledge and all you do is prove your ignorance! Lol! Like I haven't dealt with this subject for years or anything! It's always the same. Here's a brief summary of my experience for you:
Evolutionist:"THERE'S A MOUNTAIN OF EVIDENCE!" Creationist:"Ok, can you show us this mountain?" Evolutionist:"YOUR JUST ANTI-SCIENCE!" Creationist:"I just asked for the evidence." Evolutionist:"YOU JUST CAN SEE IT CAUSE YOU HATE SCIENCE! WE UNDERSTAND IT AND YOU CREOTARDS ARE JUST STUPID!"
Creationist:"Ok so still waiting for that evidence..." Evolutionist:"YOU STUPID <explicitive> <explicitive> CREOTARD!"
Creationist:"I see..."

Dear Spy, Amen. That is exactly what happens when I ask them for ANY evidence that Humans evolved from the common ancestor of Apes. Their DNA evidence cannot stand against the Truth and their skull parade is easily dispatched. They speak with forked tongues and CLAIM that they will change their FLAWED Theory but it's much easier to call names than to change their Religious Doctrine. Amen? God Bless you

 

[SkyWriting]

It's been a while since I have taken up the topic but the Gorilla Genome was finally sequenced in 2012. There are a couple of insights, one I expected but the other came as a big surprise.

Overall:

In 30% of the genome, gorilla is closer to human or chimpanzee than the latter are to each other; this is rarer around coding genes, indicating pervasive selection throughout great ape evolution, and has functional consequences in gene expression.​

Brain Related:

Genes expressed in the brain or involved in its development have not typically been associated with positive selection in primates, but our results show that multiple great ape lineages show elevated dN/dS in brain-related genes when evaluated against a primate background.​

Insights into hominid evolution from the gorilla genome sequence (Nature, 08 March 2012)

Of course, Creationists are having some fun with this one:

Gorilla Genome Is Bad News for Evolution

I'll be back later to see how the discussion develops.

Grace and peace,
Mark

The real issue is that we are children playing with a
toybox full of blocks as we study DNA.

We barely can describe the color of the blocks at this stage.
Much less the implications of the patterns we can discern.

 

[Papias]

Spiderbyte wrote:

Like I haven't dealt with this subject for years or anything! It's always the same.

Um, of all the different lines of evidence you have been shown, have you read this concise summary of 29 different lines of evidence that show the same family tree of common descent?


29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: The Scientific Case for Common Descent


in Christ-

Papias

 

[SpyderByte]

I think you're going to some bad sites, then.

I can recommend one that's pretty good, thoguh. With actual scientists who work in the field and quickly respond to creationists in a timely, professional manner. Would you like to go there?

If it's talkorigins, or league of reason, or any like that, no thanks! That's where I the experience for my above post from...

 

[SpyderByte]

Spiderbyte wrote:

Um, of all the different lines of evidence you have been shown, have you read this concise summary of 29 different lines of evidence that show the same family tree of common descent?

29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: The Scientific Case for Common Descent

in Christ-

Papias

Oh Lord....more talkorigins blather....the same folks who hammer away on the long defunct "hominid skull sequence"....again, no thanks.

 

[lasthero]

If it's talkorigins, or league of reason, or any like that, no thanks! That's where I the experience for my above post from...

EvC Forum: Home Page

And I don't suppose you could link me to any topics that went down like that, could you?