Global Warming & Earth’s Global Temperature Measurement

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Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature (BEST) - funded by Koch brothers
Climate Reseach Unit - funded by Shell and BP
Stanford Global Climate and Energy Project - funded by Exxon.
Got what looks like lies, andypro7, because you do not have any sources. So
12th March 2015 andypro7: Sources for "Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature (BEST) - funded by Koch brothers"
12th March 2015 andypro7: Sources for "Climate Reseach Unit - funded by Shell and BP"
12th March 2015 andypro7: Sources for "Stanford Global Climate and Energy Project - funded by Exxon"

And then show that the funding affected the scientific results.

The fact is that a lot of research is done by universities. Universities get funding from various sources including oil companies. So we expect climate science to be funded by oil companies. And yet 97% of climate scientists agree that AWG exists and that a cause is the burning of fuel from oil companies :doh:!

Of course the other part of funding is declaring conflicts of interest when it is appropriate, e.g. in a journal that has rules needing it. That is why Willie Soon is in trouble.

ETA: http://berkeleyearth.org/funders (only 2010 Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation ($150,000), nothing since then) and their results: Global warning is real :eek:
Could be that the Koch brothers did not get the results they wanted and did not fund BEST in 2011, 1012 or 2014?
 
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andypro7

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Again:
12th March 2015 andypro7: Are you making the physically impossible demand that we read all of the thousands of papers on that web site?
For that matter:
12th March 2015 andypro7: Have you read all of the thousands of papers on that web site?


Don't have to, they're peer reviewed.
 
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The hockey stick graph was created by Michael Mann, Mann was at the Hadley CRU, and as you know, the CRU takes big oil money from BP and Shell.
Good old Big Oil Paranoia that is not the Big Oil Paranoia, andypro7 :p!.
The Big Oil Paranoia is the other way around. It is that oil companies do not want global warming because that means that they have to spend money reducing their CO2 emissions and that the demand for oil will decrease as alternatives to burning it are found.

You seem to be mindlessly repeating a lie from somewhere, andypro7:
Michael E. Mann was at the Department of Geosciences, University of Massachusetts, Amherst, Massachusetts 01003-5820, USA for the publication of the 1988 paper.
He has always worked for universities in the US.
 
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[Don't have to, they're peer reviewed.
And that has nothing to do with:

12th March 2015 andypro7: Are you making the physically impossible demand that we read all of the thousands of papers on that web site?
For that matter:
12th March 2015 andypro7: Have you read all of the thousands of papers on that web site?


You, andypro7, have to read them all to see if the MWP Project is lying to you :doh:.
 
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andypro7

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And that has nothing to do with:

12th March 2015 andypro7: Are you making the physically impossible demand that we read all of the thousands of papers on that web site?
For that matter:
12th March 2015 andypro7: Have you read all of the thousands of papers on that web site?


You, andypro7, have to read them all to see if the MWP Project is lying to you :doh:.

Cool, Ok, if that is your standard, then YOU have to read ALL the materials that says that global warming is occurring, is a crisis, and is caused by man's activities.

Get back to me when you do that, ok? As you say, "extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence"

And since there has been no statistical global warming for over 18 years, and virtually ALL the scientists, paper, institutions etc PREDICTED massive warming, I'd say that's an 'extraordinary claim'
 
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Cool, Ok, if that is your standard,...
You do not understand what the scientific standard is. It is the person making the claim that has to back it up. You are making the claim that the MWP Project web site shows that the MWP was globally warmer than today. You need to back it up by showing that you have read all of the thousands of papers on that web site and verified that they are not lying to you :eek:
But then:
12th March 2015 andypro7: Are you making the physically impossible demand that we read all of the thousands of papers on that web site?
12th March 2015 andypro7: Have you read all of the thousands of papers on that web site?

ETA: You missed
12th March 2015 andypro7: Can you understand that McIntyre and McKitrick are not climate scientists and their papers have been refuted?

ETA2: And the serious question about the MWP Project:
12th March 2015 andypro7: Please link to the analysis of the thousands of papers that MWP Project did (that is not an interactive map!).

P.S. Six outstanding questions (from 3 March 2015) for and 5 points of ignorance from andypro7
 
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andypro7

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usual lack of knowledge

Ok, let's say I agree, so I say this to you (you might recognize it):


You do not understand what the scientific standard is. It is the person making the claim that has to back it up. You are making the claim that the global warming is occurring, it's dangerous, and man is causing it. YOU need to back it up by showing that you have read all of the thousands of papers on global warming and verify that they are not lying to you
 
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The obsession with the MWP Project web site has obscured the modern scientific research on the MWP as cited in How does the Medieval Warm Period compare to current global temperatures?.
While the Medieval Warm Period saw unusually warm temperatures in some regions, globally the planet was cooler than current conditions.

You can use the data from Mann 2009 to plot the surface temperature anomaly for Medieval Warm Period (950 to 1250 A.D.), relative to the 1961– 1990 reference period and see that it was above 0.7 in a few grids.
Do the same for surface temperature anomaly for period 1999 to 2008, relative to the 1961– 1990 reference period. There are many grids >= 0.7, e.g. most of North America :eek:!

Then look at how scientists do science: Past Global Changes are collecting the best paleoclimate (past climate change) data from regions around the world. They are actually analyzing the data!
 
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Ok, let's say I agree, ...irrelevant stiff snipped...
Read what I wrote - this is your claim :doh:!
You do not understand what the scientific standard is. It is the person making the claim that has to back it up. You are making the claim that the MWP Project web site shows that the MWP was globally warmer than today. You need to back it up by showing that you have read all of the thousands of papers on that web site and verified that they are not lying to you :eek:
But then:
12th March 2015 andypro7: Are you making the physically impossible demand that we read all of the thousands of papers on that web site?
12th March 2015 andypro7: Have you read all of the thousands of papers on that web site?

ETA: You missed
12th March 2015 andypro7: Can you understand that McIntyre and McKitrick are not climate scientists and their papers have been refuted?

ETA2: And the serious question about the MWP Project:
12th March 2015 andypro7: Please link to the analysis of the thousands of papers that MWP Project did (that is not an interactive map!).

P.S. Six outstanding questions (from 3 March 2015) for and 5 points of ignorance from andypro7
 
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My claim is that 97% of climate scientists agree that global warming is happening. This is backed up by the paper in which it was published and other papers :doh:!
The Cook et al. (2013) 97% consensus result is robust
The 97% consensus has been independently confirmed by a number of different approaches and lines of evidence.

Start with Cook et al. (2013) (PDF)
Quantifying the consensus on anthropogenic global warming in the scientific literature
We analyze the evolution of the scientific consensus on anthropogenic global warming (AGW) in the peer-reviewed scientific literature, examining 11 944 climate abstracts from 1991–2011 matching the topics ‘global climate change’ or ‘global warming’. We find that 66.4% of abstracts expressed no position on AGW, 32.6% endorsed AGW, 0.7% rejected AGW and 0.3% were uncertain about the cause of global warming. Among abstracts expressing a position on AGW, 97.1% endorsed the consensus position that humans are causing global warming. In a second phase of this study, we invited authors to rate their own papers. Compared to abstract ratings, a smaller percentage of self-rated papers expressed no position on AGW (35.5%). Among self-rated papers expressing a position on AGW, 97.2% endorsed the consensus. For both abstract ratings and authors’ self-ratings, the percentage of endorsements among papers expressing a position on AGW marginally increased over time. Our analysis indicates that the number of papers rejecting the consensus on AGW is a vanishingly small proportion of the published research.
Followed by
* Naomi Oreskes found no rejections of the consensus in a survey of 928 abstracts performed in 2004
* Doran & Zimmerman (2009) found a 97% consensus among scientists actively publishing climate research.
* Anderegg et al. (2010) reviewed publicly signed declarations supporting or rejecting human-caused global warming, and again found over 97% consensus among climate experts.

A further indictor of consensus is the widespread endorsing of AGW by scientific organizations, e.g. National Academies of Science.
 
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So we can see the difference between you claim and mine I have a list of published papers that support the actual claim: 97% of climate scientists agree that global warming is happening!
You have the MWP Project web site is full of thousands of papers and you have no idea if any of then support your claim :eek:

Another small difference is that scientists recognize that they may be wrong. That is why they tend to make the data that they have available for other people to inspect and even do their own analysis. the data behind 97% of climate scientists agree that global warming is happening! is available and searchable at The Consensus Project

Now where is the MWP Projects database of data that they extracted from all of those papers?
 
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andypro7

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* Doran & Zimmerman (2009) found a 97% consensus among scientists actively publishing climate research.

You know absolutely nothing. Do you even know what Doran/Zimmerman is??? Probably not. First of all, it's funded by Exxon (Stanford), so it's out.

But secondly, it was a grad student sending a two-page questionnaire out to over 10,000 scientists, and only 3146 even bothered to respond. Of those that responded to the 2nd question, HUNDREDS said that NO, man was not the cause of global warming

But, instead of taking their answers, Maggie (the grad student), self-selected ONLY 77 people whose answers 'Counted'

That's right, your whole 97% consensus crap is based on a two question, grad student internet survey which they sent to over 10,000 scientists, where HUNDREDS disagreed, and they chose only 77 that counted.

That is your fraudulent, lying, hockey-sticked consensus.

EVERYONE knows what crap Doran/Zimmerman is. Go ahead google it.

I'm tired of your crap. You know next to nothing about this subject, and you keep repeating lies, hoaxes, and hockey sticks, all of which just makes me even more sure that this is all made up.

Now, do what you and the rest of the hockey team do, ignore the substance of what I just said, ignore the FACTs, don't bother to check, and just keep repeating over and over and over and over again your lying, fraudulent, hockey stick propaganda.
 
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andypro7

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My claim is that 97% of climate scientists agree that global warming is happening. This is backed up by the paper in which it was published and other papers
The Cook et al. (2013) 97% consensus result is robust

Ok, let's see what the ACTUAL SCIENTISTS cited in the Cook et al paper say, when asked if Cook et al accurate portrayed their position:

Now, TAKE A LOOK AT THIS. This is not the denial machine, or Fox News, or big oil. There are the VERY SAME SCIENTISTS that Cook et al cite in the paper, telling us that Cook et al MISREPRESENTED THEIR POSITION in order fabricate 97%

Here's the real sad part, despite the overwhelming evidence that the 97% crap is made up, YOU will keep on spouting it. You won't admit you were wrong, you won't investigate. You will never learn and you will be forever buried in your zealous belief in a lie.

Well, you're only lying to yourself, because unless you show me you realize that this is crap, and admit it, I've no further use for you.


When [FONT=&quot]Popular Technology[/FONT] asked physicist Nicola Scafetta whether Cook and his colleagues accurately classified one of his peer-reviewed papers as supporting the ‘consensus’ position, Scafetta similarly criticized the Skeptical Science classification.
“Cook et al. (2013) is based on a straw man argument because it does not correctly define the IPCC AGW theory, which is NOT that human emissions have contributed 50%+ of the global warming since 1900 but that almost 90-100% of the observed global warming was induced by human emission,” Scafetta responded. “What my papers say is that the IPCC [United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change] view is erroneous because about 40-70% of the global warming observed from 1900 to 2000 was induced by the sun.”
[FONT=&quot]“[/FONT]What it is observed right now is utter dishonesty by the IPCC advocates. … They are gradually engaging into a metamorphosis process to save face. … And in this way they will get the credit that they do not merit, and continue in defaming critics like me that actually demonstrated such a fact since 2005/2006,” Scafetta added.



Cook and his colleagues, for example, classified a peer-reviewed paper by scientist Craig Idso as explicitly supporting the ‘consensus’ position on global warming “without minimizing” the asserted severity of global warming. When [FONT=&quot]Popular Technology[/FONT] asked Idso whether this was an accurate characterization of his paper, Idso responded, “That is not an accurate representation of my paper. The papers examined how the rise in atmospheric CO2 could be inducing a phase advance in the spring portion of the atmosphere’s seasonal CO2 cycle. Other literature had previously claimed a measured advance was due to rising temperatures, but we showed that it was quite likely the rise in atmospheric CO2 itself was responsible for the lion’s share of the change. It would be incorrect to claim that our paper was an endorsement of CO2-induced global warming.”




Astrophysicist Nir Shaviv similarly objected to Cook and colleagues claiming he explicitly supported the ‘consensus’ position about human-induced global warming. Asked if Cook and colleagues accurately represented his paper, Shaviv responded, “Nope… it is not an accurate representation. The paper shows that if cosmic rays are included in empirical climate sensitivity analyses, then one finds that different time scales consistently give a low climate sensitivity. i.e., it supports the idea that cosmic rays affect the climate and that climate sensitivity is low. This means that part of the 20th century [warming] should be attributed to the increased solar activity and that 21st century warming under a business as usual scenario should be low (about 1°C).”




Soon, an astrophysicist, similarly objected to Cook classifying his paper as “no position.”
“I am sure that this rating of no position on AGW by CO2 is nowhere accurate nor correct,” said Soon.
“I hope my scientific views and conclusions are clear to anyone that will spend time reading our papers. Cook et al. (2013) is not the study to read if you want to find out about what we say and conclude in our own scientific works,” Soon emphasized.




Morner, a sea level scientist, told [FONT=&quot]Popular Technology[/FONT] that Cook classifying one of his papers as “no position” was “Certainly not correct and certainly misleading. The paper is strongly against AGW [anthropogenic global warming], and documents its absence in the sea level observational facts. Also, it invalidates the mode of sea level handling by the IPCC.”
 
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FredVB

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What are people going to do in a few years when critical changes take a great toll on our society? Changing the way we live should already be happening. There is a great amount of extinctions among species, the life in oceans are being diminished, there is deforestation and desertification, and our demands using animals as resources has more land, water, and resources being used while there are people starving that would not have to be.

There will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars, and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and waves roaring, men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Luke 21 verses 25-26

The nations were angry, and your wrath has come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that you should reward your servants the prophets and the saints, and those who fear your name, small and great, and should destroy those who destroy the earth. Revelation 11 verse 18
 
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Heissonear

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So we can see the difference between you claim and mine I have a list of published papers that support the actual claim: 97% of climate scientists agree that global warming is happening!
You have the MWP Project web site is full of thousands of papers and you have no idea if any of then support your claim :eek:

Another small difference is that scientists recognize that they may be wrong. That is why they tend to make the data that they have available for other people to inspect and even do their own analysis. the data behind 97% of climate scientists agree that global warming is happening! is available and searchable at The Consensus Project

Now where is the MWP Projects database of data that they extracted from all of those papers?
.

Whitewash

You push the propaganda pretty sternly - like the 97% number.

Like it is true and means something.

You push most "it is so" through propaganda.

One produces more error when they promote propaganda .

.
 
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sculleywr

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andypro7 said:
Sorry, the hockey stick graph has now been thoroughly and totally debunked by YOUR OWN WORDS: Go get a non-blog, critically accepted scholarly source that isn't funded in any way by oil companies or republicans The hockey stick graph was created by Michael Mann, Mann was at the Hadley CRU, and as you know, the CRU takes big oil money from BP and Shell. So, the hockey stick is now officially disproved to the satisfaction of both of us: Me because I know the science was bad, and you because it was funded by big oil. No need to go on about the hockey stick. We BOTH agree it's a fraud.
just because your accepted "scholars" don't accept it doesn't mean we agree it is a fraud. It means you don't accept 95% of scientists. Your data is anomalous compared to the massive majority of data. Ergo, it is probably due to the incorrect gathering of data, and not massive global conspiracy.

http://youtu.be/M8-9U-MF1Ko

Cornell, NASA, IPCC, GCSN, Berkeley, and every other major and minor organization gathering data has shown consensus. You are not within the consensus. Therefore you must PROVE that the consensus is wrong. Your only argument is that it is being suppressed. This despite the fact that the big money spenders in the debate are on your side.

There is no evidence of suppression. But you can't be scientific in mindset and believe there might be something wrong with the evidence you have. Especially considering it is all anecdotal anyways.
 
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sculleywr

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Heissonear said:
. Whitewash You push the propaganda pretty sternly - like the 97% number. Like it is true and means something. You push most "it is so" through propaganda. One produces more error when they promote propaganda . .

Get out your tin foil hats guys. We are just a few posts away from someone comparing climate science to nazi germany propaganda.
 
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andypro7

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just because your accepted "scholars" don't accept it doesn't mean we agree it is a fraud. It means you don't accept 95% of scientists. Your data is anomalous compared to the massive majority of data. Ergo, it is probably due to the incorrect gathering of data, and not massive global conspiracy.

No, you probably didn't read what I wrote. The 95% of scientists is bogus. Read a few spots up my post on Cook et al.

Here's the summation: Cook et al publish their paper saying that 97% believe. Immediately, SEVERAL of the scientists THAT COOK COUNTED AS BELIEVING publicly came out and said Cook lied.

Their quotes are right there. Now, are you going to believe the scientists that were cited in the study? If you don't that means that you don't accept the word of the 97%

Your move, chief.
 
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andypro7

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Cornell, NASA, IPCC, GCSN, Berkeley, and every other major and minor organization gathering data has shown consensus.

Sorry, they don't count, by YOUR OWN RULES you can't count them. Allow me to remind you:

Go get a non-blog, critically accepted scholarly source that isn't funded in any way by oil companies or republicans

IPCC - Funded by BP and Shell
NASA - Obama appointed chief Charlie Bolden was on the board of directors at Marathon Oil
Berkeley - Their 'Energy Biosciences Institute' funded by BP
Didn't even bother looking at the other two, the point is made

Sorry, unless you're willing to admit that you are a HUGE HYPOCRITE, I can't accept any information from you from anything that is funded in any way by oil companies
 
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sculleywr

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andypro7 said:
just because your accepted "scholars" don't accept it doesn't mean we agree it is a fraud. It means you don't accept 95% of scientists. Your data is anomalous compared to the massive majority of data. Ergo, it is probably due to the incorrect gathering of data, and not massive global conspiracy. No, you probably didn't read what I wrote. The 95% of scientists is bogus. Read a few spots up my post on Cook et al. Here's the summation: Cook et al publish their paper saying that 97% believe. Immediately, SEVERAL of the scientists THAT COOK COUNTED AS BELIEVING publicly came out and said Cook lied. Their quotes are right there. Now, are you going to believe the scientists that were cited in the study? If you don't that means that you don't accept the word of the 97% Your move, chief.
the only reason you call it bogus is because you don't accept them. Unfortunately for you, whining and griping about them not being scientists doesn't make them not scientists. And regardless, it's not just about the scientists. Even if 2% of scientists think climate change is real, that would mean the98% of scientists that don't are ignoring the evidence of 99% of the data.

Even IF we were coming out of a cooling period, it is quite obvious that a warming trend will prove devastating to mankind, because all of that farmland will become arid wastelands. Where do you propose we get our food from then?

The warming trend is real. The data says that even on unadjusted data sets. Berkeley never adjusted anything and the hockey stick is there. The same goes for NASA. One set of data is adjusted to fit with the rest of the 40+ sets of data and you flip a wig.

Again. You have burden of proof.
 
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