Dinosaurs

[lasthero]

Oh, and speaking of frauds and phonies, I'd like to take a second to point out your hypocrisy, Jack. Remember that site with the giant footprint you were pointing to a few months back? The one that also talked about werewolves and alien skulls?

 

[SteveB28]

Just pointing out my 9 month old daughter is female yet is not close to "mature"

Male and female is just that, male or female, determined in the womb for humans. Dinosaurs idk but it has nothing to do with sexual maturity. Just wanted to clear that up for you. When reading the Bible you should never ad words to the writing, it changes the teachings.

Excuse me ma'am, but I think you've overlooked his point. By referring to a "male and his female", the text is clearly indicating that the animals are adult. They are paired. Pairing takes place amongst those animals that are sexually mature and ready to breed.

 

[kristina411]

Considering, in Genesis especially, women were created for men, saying "his female" does not even remotely begin to say "mature female"

I am not the one misquoting scripture but since it has been done lets clear the air: Genesis 6:19 New King James Version and Latin Vulgate. I cross referenced both and neither say anything close to maturity and not even "his" anything. Lets take a look:

"And of every living thing of all flesh you shall bring two of every sort into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female." NKJV

"And of every living creature of all flesh, thou shalt bring two of a sort into the ark, that they may live with thee: Of the male sex, and the female." LV

As I said, I did not misrepresent scripture and it would be kind of everyone to not bear such untruths. Thanks in advance!

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Why were dinosaurs not allowed on the Ark?

Because they were long dead before the Ark was built, they died during the catastrophe that occurred before the creation of man.

And the earth "became" (hayah) desolate and waste, and darkness "became" (hayah).....

How can one let creatures that no longer existed onto the Ark? This is why no bones of man have never been found with them, because man did not yet exist.

 

[Herman Hedning]

Excuse me ma'am, but I think you've overlooked his point. By referring to a "male and his female", the text is clearly indicating that the animals are adult. They are paired. Pairing takes place amongst those animals that are sexually mature and ready to breed.

Excuse me mister, but I think you've overlooked the fact that the bible was not originally written in English. It is kind of silly to try to draw conclusions from the specific wording of an English version, since not even all of those agree.

But it is all clear when looking at the next chapter. Genesis 8:15-17 says:

Then God spoke to Noah, saying, “Go out of the ark, you and your wife and your sons and your sons’ wives with you. Bring out with you every living thing of all flesh that is with you, birds and animals and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, that they may breed abundantly on the earth, and be fruitful and multiply on the earth.”

So, unless we assume that the animals matured during the stay on the ark, they would have had to be mature from the start.

 

[SkyWriting]

You are correct, and give a great example evolution, as nostrils became part of the breathing apparatus for land animals, but not for modern fish. Pretty cool eh?

"Evidence" for evolution is no more supportive of
your fictional story than it is of my choice of story
involving device creation, awesome design and
stunning bio-engineering.
Pretty cool.

 

[SkyWriting]

That would be so cool to have toes like that.
Mine look more like they've been broken
and bound up since I was 5.

This picture suggests they've been kissing.

 

[Herman Hedning]

That would be so cool to have toes like that.
Mine look more like they've been broken
and bound up since I was 5.

This picture suggests they've been kissing.

This picture suggests the men were giants. Note that the human "footprint" is almost 2 feet long. That'd make him a size 45 or so, I think. Good thing he went barefoot, getting shoes of that size would have been hard.

 

[Queller]

deleted double post

 

[Queller]

Considering, in Genesis especially, women were created for men, saying "his female" does not even remotely begin to say "mature female"

This comment undermines your argument. Was Eve created as a baby or as a mature woman, ready for child-bearing?

I am not the one misquoting scripture but since it has been done lets clear the air: Genesis 6:19 New King James Version and Latin Vulgate. I cross referenced both and neither say anything close to maturity and not even "his" anything. Lets take a look:

Please show where I misquoted scripture. My verse was Genesis 7:2, not Genesis 6:19

"And of every living thing of all flesh you shall bring two of every sort into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female." NKJV

"And of every living creature of all flesh, thou shalt bring two of a sort into the ark, that they may live with thee: Of the male sex, and the female." LV

As I said, I did not misrepresent scripture and it would be kind of everyone to not bear such untruths. Thanks in advance!

Well, you certainly could have said that you were not referring to the verse I posted, you know, the one in the post that you quoted.

I find it interesting that you had to go to a different chapter of Genesis for your argument. My verse was not Genesis 6:19 Genesis 7:2.

If you want to play dueling translations we can but I don't think you will like the results.

New International Version
Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate,

New Living Translation
Take with you seven pairs--male and female--of each animal I have approved for eating and for sacrifice, and take one pair of each of the others.

English Standard Version
Take with you seven pairs of all clean animals, the male and his mate, and a pair of the animals that are not clean, the male and his mate,

New American Standard Bible
"You shall take with you of every clean animal by sevens, a male and his female; and of the animals that are not clean two, a male and his female;

King James Bible
Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
You are to take with you seven pairs, a male and its female, of all the clean animals, and two of the animals that are not clean, a male and its female,

International Standard Version
You are to take with you seven pairs of every clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of the unclean animals, a male and its mate;

NET Bible
You must take with you seven of every kind of clean animal, the male and its mate, two of every kind of unclean animal, the male and its mate,

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal (a male and a female of each) and one pair of every kind of unclean animal (a male and a female).

Jubilee Bible 2000
Of every clean animal thou shalt take to thee seven pairs, the male and his female; but of animals that are not clean, two, the male and his female.

King James 2000 Bible
Of every clean beast you shall take to you by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

American King James Version
Of every clean beast you shall take to you by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

American Standard Version
Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee seven and seven, the male and his female; and of the beasts that are not clean two, the male and his female:

Douay-Rheims Bible
Of all clean beasts take seven and seven, the male and female.

Darby Bible Translation
Of all clean beasts thou shalt take to thee by sevens, a male and its female; but of the beasts that are not clean two, a male and its female.

English Revised Version
Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee seven and seven, the male and his female; and of the beasts that are not clean two, the male and his female;

Webster's Bible Translation
Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

World English Bible
You shall take seven pairs of every clean animal with you, the male and his female. Of the animals that are not clean, take two, the male and his female.

Young's Literal Translation
of all the clean beasts thou dost take to thee seven pairs, a male and its female; and of the beasts which are not clean two, a male and its female;

New King James Version
You shall take with you seven each of every clean animal, a male and his female; two each of animals that are unclean, a male and his female;

Looks like 17 out of 20 translations say either "his female" or "its female".

 

[Queller]

Because they were long dead before the Ark was built, they died during the catastrophe that occurred before the creation of man.

And the earth "became" (hayah) desolate and waste, and darkness "became" (hayah).....

Your link says that hayah means "become" not "became". Hayah also means "to be" not just "become".

How can one let creatures that no longer existed onto the Ark? This is why no bones of man have never been found with them, because man did not yet exist.

Umm hmm. Tell us another one.

 

[Queller]

That would be so cool to have toes like that.
Mine look more like they've been broken
and bound up since I was 5.

This picture suggests they've been kissing.

As Herman already pointed out, that footprint would have been made by a giant. In fact, if the ratio found in this abstract is reliable, the person making that imprint would have been almost 13 feet tall!

 

[kristina411]

Lol I can copy and paste too.

 

[JacksBratt]

Are you having trouble reading the verse I quoted? It clearly uses "male and his female" in reference to both clean and unclean animals. I don't understand how you missed it.

"and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female."

I stand corrected, you are right. It is for both clean and unclean. However, as another poster has pointed out, the phrase "the male and his female", in no way shape or form deduce the age or maturity.

False. You gave information that the earth had a (somewhat) higher O2 count hundreds of millions of years ago. The Flood, according to YECs like yourself, happened less than 5,000 years ago.

I guess I should have made myself clear. I believe that the atmosphere changed at the time of the flood. When the canopy was removed and the founts of the deep opened up. This changed the earths atmosphere and the large animals, like brontosaurus, were unable to adapt.

The link I posted was taken from an evolution based site that believes in millions of years etc. It shows scientific data that the atmosphere was, at one time, quite different. I did this so I would not get bantered for using a "creationist biased" site.

Sorry for confusing you.

 

[JacksBratt]

You should also never remove words from the Bible, as you have done here by removing the word "his" from the verse. As I already pointed out in the post you quoted, Genesis 7:2 clearly says "male and his female". That is obviously a mated pair. Other translations of the Bible make this even more clear as they specifically state "male and his mate".

If it wasn't intended to refer to a mated pair, then it would have said simply "a male and a female".

Say's you. I don't believe that this is the case. There is no absolute for your reasoning.

 

[JacksBratt]

Is that it? Some known frauds and scams that were discovered and exposed by science are not going to falsify mainstream science as a whole, as you seem to require for your beliefs to be true.

It would seem that you think a scandal at an observatory would falsify modern astrophysics, cosmology, and the standard model of physics, all of which seem to conflict with what you have told me of your beliefs.

I am not "falsifying mainstream science as a whole"

I stated that "Evolutionists have been faking, altering, hiding, dismissing, and ignoring data for years."

I was asked to give proof and I did.

People who want to believe otherwise are following a theory based on a lot of misinterpreted data and extrapolated by men and women that are not afraid to fake, alter, hide, dismiss, and ignore data."

 

[lasthero]

You did no such thing.

People who want to believe otherwise are following a theory based on a lot of misinterpreted data and extrapolated by men and women that are not afraid to fake, alter, hide, dismiss, and ignore data."

The problem is that the few actual frauds on the list you provided aren't what the theory is based on. No one is writing papers or learning about Nebraska Man or Archeoraptor as if they're fact. They're old news. Creationists like you keep presenting stuff like that as if you're going to shock people to the core, but it has no effect, because most of us have heard that stuff a thousand times. It has no bearing on the theory.

 

[JacksBratt]

Just pointing out a few on the list.



No, it isn't. Name one textbook that talks about it and presents the drawings as 'truth'. You won't be able to, because this is just a common creationist lie.

Well.... Here are a few....

I. Peter H Raven & George B Johnson, Biology (5th ed, McGraw Hill, 1999)*

II. Peter H Raven & George B Johnson, Biology (6th ed, McGraw Hill, 2002)*

III. Textbook III. Douglas J. Futuyma, Evolutionary Biology (3rd ed, Sinauer, 1998)

IV. Cecie Starr and Ralph Taggart, Biology: The Unity and Diversity of Life (8th ed, Wadsworth, 1998)

V. Joseph Raver, Biology: Patterns and Processes of Life (J.M.Lebel, 2004, draft version presented to the Texas State Board of Education for approval in 2003)

VI. Cecie Starr and Ralph Taggart, Biology: The Unity and Diversity of Life (Wadsworth, 2004, draft version presented to the Texas State Board of Education in 2003)

VII. William D. Schraer and Herbert J. Stoltze, Biology: The Study of Life (7th ed, Prentice Hall, 1999)

VIII. Michael Padilla et al., Focus on Life Science: California Edition (Prentice Hall, 2001)

IX. Kenneth R Miller & Joseph Levine, Biology: The Living Science (Prentice Hall, 1998)

X. Kenneth R Miller & Joseph Levine, Biology (4th ed., Prentice Hall, 1998)​

*Note: some paragraphs are the same because some textbooks re-use the same material in different editions.

 

[lasthero]

This changed the earths atmosphere and the large animals, like brontosaurus, were unable to adapt.

Why? The blue is easily the biggest animal that has ever been known to exist on this planet, bar none, and it does just fine. Also, animals like elephants and rhinos are much bigger than many dinosaurs and other animals that went extinct at the same time.

 

[lasthero]

This changed the earths atmosphere and the large animals, like brontosaurus, were unable to adapt.

Why? The blue whale is easily the biggest animal that has ever been known to exist on this planet, bar none, and it does just fine. Also, animals like elephants and rhinos are much bigger than many dinosaurs and other animals that went extinct at the same time.