What Would Evidence for God's Existence Be Like?

[agua]

Was your obvious mistake intentional?

I didn't say; "I wonder if the universe exists" I stated; "I wonder why the universe exists"

Quite a bit of difference there, wouldn't you say?

Ops sorry. I was reading another item and made a mistake. If you come to know me you may see that I wouldn't be deliberate in this ( and it would be futile with the evidence sitting right in my own post )

Yes my apology. According to Yahweh the question of why Universe exists must move directly to how and is self evident. ie. it requires a Creator.

 

[bhsmte]

Ops sorry. I was reading another item and made a mistake. If you come to know me you may see that I wouldn't be deliberate in this ( and it would be futile with the evidence sitting right in my own post )

Yes my apology. According to Yahweh the question of why Universe exists must move directly to how and is self evident. ie. it requires a Creator.

According to a book written by many different men. You have yet to support the premise, these words came from anyone, but the people who penned them.

If you want to believe that on faith, no problem.

 

[agua]

O...k... I think I have heard that one before. Now if I tell you that Yahweh obviously has not "adequately" given me any reasons to search for him... because obviously I don't search for him... is that then the point where you start to question my sincerity?

No the sincerity of your search can only be decided after you've started it and until you acknowledge the requirement of a Creator, you haven't begun the search. What you are saying is that you don't accept that the Universe requires a Creator, and therefor you don't accept Yahwehs' burden.

Because as I see it, the existence of a creator is still in question. A search has to start from a known point - a creator is not known.

We agree the Universe exists though. This is the evidence Yahweh says is sufficient to acknowledge a Creator. You make your own decision of whether this evidence is sufficient to begin the search, or not.

 

[Freodin]

No the sincerity of your search can only be decided after you've started it and until you acknowledge the requirement of a Creator, you haven't begun the search. What you are saying is that you don't accept that the Universe requires a Creator, and therefor you don't accept Yahwehs' burden.



We agree the Universe exists though. This is the evidence Yahweh says is sufficient to acknowledge a Creator. You make your own decision of whether this evidence is sufficient to begin the search, or not.

Well, according to your last post, I do not make my "own decision" of whether this evidence is sufficient.

Let me go back a little bit. In a previous post you said: " If you search for the answer the Teacher will guide you."

As yet the teacher has told me that the answer is obvious, that the method is obvious, that these informations are "sufficient" and that my not-understanding this is "my own decision".

I hope we can agree that this would is a rather bad way of "teaching", even in a human being. How much worse is it in a deity?

 

[yesyoushould]

According to a book written by many different men. You have yet to support the premise, these words came from anyone, but the people who penned them.

If you want to believe that on faith, no problem.

I think it is a beautiful thing to believe in God. I hope you agree. You also have a belief perhaps. It is amazing that we are all given a choice.

 

[agua]

According to a book written by many different men. You have yet to support the premise, these words came from anyone, but the people who penned them.

If you want to believe that on faith, no problem.

Firstly it would be good if you don't assume my reasons for accepting the Bible is inspired, and I won't assume I know why you don't.

Ok. Your question is how do I know the Bible was inspired by Yahweh?

I'll start with a couple of points and you can ask for more as we go. I'll avoid personal experience.

1. The Bible is a compilation 66 different Books by ~ 40 different authors over a period of about 2000 years. Every book in the Bible has a message which is consistant with the others, and contains the same message pointing to Christ.

2.The Bible explains the current world condition accurately.

 

[Colter]

My co-workers don't think so. They're only responding to whether you're a jerk in this particular thread instead of whether you're a jerk all the time.



I've read the Bible. I've never taken the passage to equate "the world" with other Christians. My co-workers, both Christians, don't hate you. Are the verses meant for them as well?

You know, come to think of it I've had other posters point to those exact verses to justify their bad behavior when called out on it. It didn't seem to work out for them.

And you didn't answer my question. Do you really want to be this way? Especially since you've said you don't believe you'll win anyone over, and could possibly hurt instead of help.

LoL! Now Mr tolerance is name calling. The answer to your question is that I don't care what your smug opinion is of me. You are baiting me like the atheist do. It's a game people play, get a rise and then cry foul, pigeon holeing the person into evidence of their contentions.

Maybe you should check your own post with you coworkers, and then get back to work!



Jesus said many difficult things, you would have called him names as well!


34“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35For I have come to turn

“ ‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’c
37“Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

 

[yesyoushould]

Do you vote for Republicans, Democrats or neither?

How come?

Because it is your choice.

 

[bhsmte]

1. The Bible is a compilation 66 different Books by ~ 40 different authors over a period of about 2000 years. Every book in the Bible has a message which is consistant with the others, and contains the same message pointing to Christ.

I would expect the writings chosen by the powers at be a few hundred years after Jesus died to be included in the bible, to be ones that have similar messages.

2.The Bible explains the current world condition accurately.

How so?

 

[bhsmte]

I think it is a beautiful thing to believe in God. I hope you agree. You also have a belief perhaps. It is amazing that we are all given a choice.

Whatever satisfies you regarding beliefs is fine by me.

You see, it isn't really anyone's belief that interests me, but much more so; how each person justifies their belief and how their belief impacts how they judge and treat others.

 

[agua]

Well, according to your last post, I do not make my "own decision" of whether this evidence is sufficient.

Let me go back a little bit. In a previous post you said: " If you search for the answer the Teacher will guide you."

As yet the teacher has told me that the answer is obvious, that the method is obvious, that these informations are "sufficient" and that my not-understanding this is "my own decision".

I hope we can agree that this would is a rather bad way of "teaching", even in a human being. How much worse is it in a deity?

This is the problem of mixing the metaphors. The search is for the Teacher, not the method. The obvious part of the search beginng is that "42" or the Universe exists, and that you must accept it required someone to make it.

Along with the Teacher analogy I think you will agree there's no way of learning from Him if you don't approach Him. You are jumping ahead by thinking Yahweh says that He is obvious and I think I've explained how this isn't the case. A Creator is obvious, in His burden, and the search will reveal Him ( and not some other god etc.)

As far as the bad way of teaching we have a separation of thinking too. If you want to learn anything you must go to the teacher. Teachers don't go around teaching people who aren't interested in learning do they ?

 

[yesyoushould]

How so?

It sounds to me that Aqua is comfortable believing in the Bible, and so it makes sense.

 

[bhsmte]

It sounds to me that Aqua is comfortable believing in the Bible, and so it makes sense.

Could be. Comfort can be a great motivator.

 

[agua]

I would expect the writings chosen by the powers at be a few hundred years after Jesus died to be included in the bible, to be ones that have similar messages.

Are you suggesting that if there are any other documents that don't agree with the Bible message ( 66 Books ) it negates the inspiration of the 66 books ?

How so?

The World is in a constant state of decay, physically and morally, which is congruent with Bible prediction.

 

[bhsmte]

Are you suggesting that if there are any other documents that don't agree with the Bible message ( 66 Books ) it negates the inspiration of the 66 books ?

I am stating the selected writings that went into the bible, were hand picked, hundreds of years after Jesus died. Some were rejected and others were included and decided by a group of men.

The World is in a constant state of decay, physically and morally, which is congruent with Bible prediction.

Please explain in specifics, how you come to this conclusion.

 

[yesyoushould]

You see, it isn't really anyone's belief that interests me, but much more so; how each person justifies their belief and how their belief impacts how they judge and treat others.

It is a beautiful thing when all people just love one another.

 

[agua]

I am stating the selected writings that went into the bible, were hand picked, hundreds of years after Jesus died. Some were rejected and others were included and decided by a group of men.

This doesn't address the inspiration of the books that were selected though. This needs to be decided upon examining the books/messages themselves.

Please explain in specifics, how you come to this conclusion.

Firstly the Earth itself is in a state of decay/adulteration and this is seen in the abuse of forestry, oceans, etc. The Bible says that humans are selfish and place their own comforts as the priority, and this is shown in our environmental negligence etc.

Secondly the trend towrds things Yahweh describes a sinful are increasing especially in the sexual immorality area. Sex/sexual provocation has become an openly acceptable currency.

 

[madaz]

The evidence is there; <snip>

Waiting with bated breath...

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Ok Archaepteryx I'll attempt to proceed, for now. I'm addressing the Dragon in Davian's garage , as an analogy of God. with you taking the position of the believer. If you're willing; I expect you to sincerely defend your argument, and not draw upon what you believe is rediculous forms of arguments from Christians.( I agree some are ).

Has the Dragon left any physical evidence of his presence ?

No, but you can know that he is there by truly seeking him with all your heart, mind, and soul.

Are you asking for evidence that Yahweh said that anyone who truly seeks Him will find Him ?

The promise to the Israelite.

Deu 4:29 KJV But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

The promise to all humans.

Heb 11:6 KJV But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

I'm not sure what quoting scripture accomplishes, other than repeating your claims. It's not evidence for the claim that "whoever seeks him shall find him." It's the claim itself, written in scripture.

 

[bhsmte]

Secondly the trend towrds things Yahweh describes a sinful are increasing especially in the sexual immorality area. Sex/sexual provocation has become an openly acceptable currency.

Why then:

Are violent crimes down?
When then is slavery not allowed any longer?
Why then is discrimination frowned up?