Who hardened Pharoahs heart and why?

[Rick Otto]

Please take this a bit further to:

~elaborate on what you mean by being "responsible" for your children's behavior (in what way are you "responsible" and to what degree?)

~are you saying that God was a Father to Pharoah by using your example of a father and his children?

In addition, who does the blame for Pharoah's hard-hearted-ness fall on?

Thank you kindly.

I am responsible to the degree that they are mine, plus the degree that they are not legal adults. This means that the Law will hold me liable for what they might be guilty of. Legal adulthood means that a person has enough demonstrable maturity to be responsible for themselves.

Pharaoh is God's child only in the sense that God is responsible for his existence by virtue of being the Creator of all of reality, not in the tighter context of being an "adopted son".
Blame is about guilt. God is not guilty of any one's sin, but He exercises His responsibility for it by judging it and either pronouncing condemnation, or mercy.

 

[Rick Otto]

I gotta go put the chickens to bed. BRB, save my seat.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
Please take this a bit further to:

~elaborate on what you mean by being "responsible" for your children's behavior (in what way are you "responsible" and to what degree?)

~are you saying that God was a Father to Pharoah by using your example of a father and his children?

In addition, who does the blame for Pharoah's hard-hearted-ness fall on?

Thank you kindly.

I am responsible to the degree that they are mine, plus the degree that they are not legal adults. This means that the Law will hold me liable for what they might be guilty of. Legal adulthood means that a person has enough demonstrable maturity to be responsible for themselves.

Pharaoh is God's child only in the sense that God is responsible for his existence by virtue of being the Creator of all of reality, not in the tighter context of being an "adopted son".
Blame is about guilt. God is not guilty of any one's sin, but He exercises His responsibility for it by judging it and either pronouncing condemnation, or mercy.

Please elaborate further, if you don't mind on how, specifically Pharoah was part of God? Are you saying he was at one with God? How would that work if he was? If not, how was he "of" God or "connected" to God? Was he part of a covenant? Where is it written that God considered Pharoah to a "part" of him, as if God was his "Father"?

Was Pharoah at enmity with God? Was he considered an "enemy"?

Also, i'm not clear on your statement about "blame".

Was God or Pharoah ultimately to "blame" for Pharoah's hardened heart?

The bottom line is, would Pharoah have a legitimate right to say "God made me do it?"

Thank you kindly.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Are ya' gonna leave us hangin', mon?

Care to elaborate?

well i was reminded of two passages . so i could say the two are related and the spirit is talking .. or i got nuthin' and the pizza is talking .

if they're related . it may have been a protectionary measure so they could win unsurmountable battles one after the other quite easily . when people are afraid they don't fight too well and sometimes do more damage to themselves than you would

 

[brinny]

well i was reminded of two passages . so i could say the two are related and the spirit is talking .. or i got nuthin' and the pizza is talking .

if they're related . it may have been a protectionary measure so they could win unsurmountable battles one after the other quite easily . when people are afraid they don't fight too well and sometimes do more damage to themselves than you would

well that's a lot to chaw on....thanks fer givin' me lots ta think about

 

[St_Worm2]

Would you mind posting the verses?

Thank you kindly.

I will be happy to. Here you go:

The LORD said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders which I have put in your power; but I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go. Exodus 4:21

//

But I will harden Pharaoh’s heart that I may multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt. Exodus 7:3

Yet Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had said. Exodus 7:13

But the magicians of Egypt did the same with their secret arts; and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had said. Exodus 7:22

//

But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not listen to them, as the LORD had said. Exodus 8:15

Then the magicians said to Pharaoh, “This is the finger of God.” But Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had said. Exodus 8:19

But Pharaoh hardened his heart this time also, and he did not let the people go. Exodus 8:32

//

Pharaoh sent, and behold, there was not even one of the livestock of Israel dead. But the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go. Exodus 9:7

And the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not listen to them, just as the LORD had spoken to Moses. Exodus 9:12

But when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunder had ceased, he sinned again and hardened his heart, he and his servants. Exodus 9:34

Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he did not let the sons of Israel go, just as the LORD had spoken through Moses. Exodus 9:35

//

Then the LORD said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may perform these signs of Mine among them, and that you may tell in the hearing of your son, and of your grandson, how I made a mockery of the Egyptians and how I performed My signs among them, that you may know that I am the LORD." Exodus 10:1-2

But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not let the sons of Israel go. Exodus 10:20

But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he was not willing to let them go. Exodus 10:27

//

Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh; yet the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not let the sons of Israel go out of his land. Exodus 11:10

//

“Thus I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and he will chase after them; and I will be honored through Pharaoh and all his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am the LORD.” And they did so. Exodus 14:4

The LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and he chased after the sons of Israel as the sons of Israel were going out boldly. Exodus 14:8

As for Me, behold, I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians so that they will go in after them; and I will be honored through Pharaoh and all his army, through his chariots and his horsemen. Exodus 14:17
​

That should be it for Exodus. If you see a verse you are interested in, you should probably go to the Bible and read it in context before commenting on it.

Yours and His,
David

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Thoughts??.

Pharaoh did the lion's share. God just put the icing on the cake that Pharaoh already baked.

 

[brinny]

I will be happy to. Here you go:

The LORD said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders which I have put in your power; but I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go. Exodus 4:21

//

But I will harden Pharaoh’s heart that I may multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt. Exodus 7:3

Yet Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had said. Exodus 7:13

But the magicians of Egypt did the same with their secret arts; and Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had said. Exodus 7:22

//

But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not listen to them, as the LORD had said. Exodus 8:15

Then the magicians said to Pharaoh, “This is the finger of God.” But Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had said. Exodus 8:19

But Pharaoh hardened his heart this time also, and he did not let the people go. Exodus 8:32

//

Pharaoh sent, and behold, there was not even one of the livestock of Israel dead. But the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go. Exodus 9:7

And the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not listen to them, just as the LORD had spoken to Moses. Exodus 9:12

But when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunder had ceased, he sinned again and hardened his heart, he and his servants. Exodus 9:34

Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he did not let the sons of Israel go, just as the LORD had spoken through Moses. Exodus 9:35

//

Then the LORD said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may perform these signs of Mine among them, and that you may tell in the hearing of your son, and of your grandson, how I made a mockery of the Egyptians and how I performed My signs among them, that you may know that I am the LORD." Exodus 10:1-2

But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not let the sons of Israel go. Exodus 10:20

But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he was not willing to let them go. Exodus 10:27

//

Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh; yet the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not let the sons of Israel go out of his land. Exodus 11:10

//

“Thus I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and he will chase after them; and I will be honored through Pharaoh and all his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am the LORD.” And they did so. Exodus 14:4

The LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and he chased after the sons of Israel as the sons of Israel were going out boldly. Exodus 14:8

As for Me, behold, I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians so that they will go in after them; and I will be honored through Pharaoh and all his army, through his chariots and his horsemen. Exodus 14:17
​

That should be it for Exodus. If you see a verse you are interested in, you should probably go to the Bible and read it in context before commenting on it.

Yours and His,
David

I will read through all the verses. Thank you kindly for posting them.

 

[brinny]

Pharaoh did the lion's share. God just put the icing on the cake that Pharaoh already baked.

I'm intrigued, brother, would you mind elaborating?

Thank you kindly.

 

[Rick Otto]

Please elaborate further, if you don't mind on how, specifically Pharoah was part of God? Are you saying he was at one with God? How would that work if he was? If not, how was he "of" God or "connected" to God? Was he part of a covenant? Where is it written that God considered Pharoah to a "part" of him, as if God was his "Father"?

Was Pharoah at enmity with God? Was he considered an "enemy"?

Also, i'm not clear on your statement about "blame".

Was God or Pharoah ultimately to "blame" for Pharoah's hardened heart?

The bottom line is, would Pharoah have a legitimate right to say "God made me do it?"

Thank you kindly.

Sorry, I have no idea where you get Pharoah was a part of God from. I don't see it in my post.
All men are enemies of God until He has mercy on them, as He chose to to do in each case, before creating.
Eph1:4: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
[5] Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,...

I believe everyone has a right to say whatever they want, but it wouldn't be prudent to say God is guilty of what I have done, even if I and anyone else wants to blame Him.

What is unclear to you about my statement on blame?

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
Please elaborate further, if you don't mind on how, specifically Pharoah was part of God? Are you saying he was at one with God? How would that work if he was? If not, how was he "of" God or "connected" to God? Was he part of a covenant? Where is it written that God considered Pharoah to a "part" of him, as if God was his "Father"?

Was Pharoah at enmity with God? Was he considered an "enemy"?

Also, i'm not clear on your statement about "blame".

Was God or Pharoah ultimately to "blame" for Pharoah's hardened heart?

The bottom line is, would Pharoah have a legitimate right to say "God made me do it?"

Thank you kindly.

Sorry, I have no idea where you get Pharoah was a part of God from. I don't see it in my post.
All men are enemies of God until He has mercy on them, as He chose to to do in each case, before creating.
Eph1:4: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
[5] Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,...

I believe everyone has a right to say whatever they want, but it wouldn't be prudent to say God is guilty of what I have done, even if I and anyone else wants to blame Him.

What is unclear to you about my statement on blame?

You used an example of a father with his children, which is an example of "family". I fail to see how this example fits a conversation about Pharoah and God and their relationship to one another.

The bottom line is, who is to blame for Pharoah's hard-heart-ed-ness?

Whoever is to blame for it, sinned, did they not?

The bottom line is, did God sin?

 

[Biblicist]

Pharaoh did the lion's share. God just put the icing on the cake that Pharaoh already baked.

I like this, too bad that the 'cake' got a bit soggy at the curtain call!

 

[brinny]

I like this, too bad that the 'cake' got a bit soggy at the curtain call!

are yu referring to the Red Sea?

 

[daydreamergurl15]

"But I am sure that the King of Egypt will not let you go, no, not even by a mighty hand. So I will stretch out my hand and strike Egypt with all my wonders which I will do in it's midst; and after that he will let you go..."
Exodus 3:19​

God hardened Pharaoh's heart because he knew Pharaoh would not let the Israelites got unless he saw the mighty works of God.

 

[sunshineforJesus]

God "allowed" Pharoah's heart to do what it was inclined to do, and that is "harden" against the Israelites. God just let Pharoah's heart do what it was inclined to do from the gitgo. The "hardening" of Pharoah's heart was evil. God did not relish evil or prompt it or welcome it. That would be sin and an evil thing for God to do. He simply allowed an evil-hearted man to do what his evil heart was inclined to do.

Thank you kindly.

I completely agree.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I like this, too bad that the 'cake' got a bit soggy at the curtain call!

Nicely said, Biblicist.

 

[Biblicist]

are yu referring to the Red Sea?

Yes. But of course Pharaoh did get his just "deserts" after the Father had served up his multi-course meal.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I'm intrigued, brother, would you mind elaborating?

Thank you kindly.

Hello Brinny,

To tell the truth, Brinny, I think you and the other participants on this thread have already elaborated well upon the essence of Pharaoh's story.

I think what we need to understand from the Pharaoh passage is the fact that it was Pharaoh who set himself upon a course against God. Pharaoh hardened his own heart toward God several times (due to pride), and then once that threshold was passed, God sealed the deal and made an example of him. The puzzle for us is that God knew Pharaoh's heart beforehand, so it almost "sounds" like God predestined it, but He did not.

Peace

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

The Bible answers both of your questions in Exodus, chapters 4-14. The answers it gives will not do?

Don't sell your answer short. There is additional scripture outside of Exodus giving the answer of God hardened Pharaoh's heart.

Romans 9:17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he[God] hardens whom he wants to harden.

This text contains a quote from Exodus that has already been noted in this thread. The purpose of Paul quoting is to add additional explanation on the doctrine of God's Sovereign Choice. To this Paul says:

19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

Which contains an O.T. quote from Isaiah in two places:
Isaiah 29:16 You turn things upside down,
as if the potter were thought to be like the clay!
Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it,
“You did not make me”?
Can the pot say to the potter,
“You know nothing”?

Isaiah 45:9 “Woe to those who quarrel with their Maker,
those who are nothing but potsherds
among the potsherds on the ground.
Does the clay say to the potter,
‘What are you making?’
Does your work say,
‘The potter has no hands’?

God need not explain his plan, but Paul does explain why God makes two different kinds of pots; one for mercy, one for destruction.

Rom 9:22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—

This is not a quote but lines up exactly with Exodus 14:4 And I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and he will pursue them. But I will gain glory for myself through Pharaoh and all his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am the Lord.” So the Israelites did this.

As if this was not enough, Paul in verses 25 through 29 quotes four more O.T. passages of God's Sovereign Choice.


To all that can not accept this clear word of God, you need to heed the warning of verse 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God?

 

[Inkfingers]

Who hardened Pharaoh's heart and why?

Who hardend his heart? God did.

Why did God harden Pharaoh's heart? It was necessary for God's plan and purpose for the universe.

• “All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made” (John 1:3)
• “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things” (Isaiah 45:7)
• “No one has authority unless it is given them” (John 19:11)
• “The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.” (Proverbs 16:4)
• “And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh” (Exo 9:12)
• “I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go” (Exo 4:21)
• “Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden” (Romans 9:18)
• “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn” (John 12:40)