Who hardened Pharoahs heart and why?

[simonthezealot]

Thoughts??.

 

[razzelflabben]

thanks, so far I've said everything I have to say on the topic, unless some conversation gets going again.

 

[brinny]

Thoughts??.

God "allowed" Pharoah's heart to do what it was inclined to do, and that is "harden" against the Israelites. God just let Pharoah's heart do what it was inclined to do from the gitgo. The "hardening" of Pharoah's heart was evil. God did not relish evil or prompt it or welcome it. That would be sin and an evil thing for God to do. He simply allowed an evil-hearted man to do what his evil heart was inclined to do.

Thank you kindly.

 

[simonthezealot]

God "allowed" Pharoah's heart to do what it was inclined to do, and that is "harden" against the Israelites. God just let Pharoah's heart do what it was inclined to do from the gitgo. The "hardening" of Pharoah's heart was evil. God did not relish evil or prompt it or welcome it. That would be sin and an evil thing for God to do. He simply allowed an evil-hearted man to do what his evil heart was inclined to do.

Thank you kindly.

Thanks for your thoughts brinny, here is something to chew on though..
We see the first time that the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart is mentioned, The very first time is in
Exodus 4:21, “And the LORD said to Moses, "When you go back to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharaoh which I have put in your hand. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go.”

First, we notice that God states His purpose and what will transpire before it ever happens.

Who would you say is the active/acting agent in the hardening based on what you see above?

 

[St_Worm2]

The Bible answers both of your questions in Exodus, chapters 4-14. The answers it gives will not do?

 

[Biblicist]

Pharaoh hardened his own heart in response to the plagues that God was using to change Pharaohs mind, it had nothing to do with God supposedly hardening his heart as this would have left Pharaoh totally blameless.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
God "allowed" Pharoah's heart to do what it was inclined to do, and that is "harden" against the Israelites. God just let Pharoah's heart do what it was inclined to do from the gitgo. The "hardening" of Pharoah's heart was evil. God did not relish evil or prompt it or welcome it. That would be sin and an evil thing for God to do. He simply allowed an evil-hearted man to do what his evil heart was inclined to do.

Thank you kindly.

Thanks for your thoughts brinny, here is something to chew on though..
We see the first time that the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart is mentioned, The very first time is in
Exodus 4:21, “And the LORD said to Moses, "When you go back to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharaoh which I have put in your hand. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go.”

First, we notice that God states His purpose and what will transpire before it ever happens.

Who would you say is the active/acting agent in the hardening based on what you see above?

Let me ask you this:

Did God prompt Pharoah to do evil, to sin? Did He force him or "tempt" him to do something that he was not inclined to do? Was God the cause of Pharoah sinning?

If so, did God sin?

Thank you kindly.

 

[brinny]

Pharaoh hardened his own heart in response to the plagues that God was using to change Pharaohs mind, it had nothing to do with God supposedly hardening his heart as this would have left Pharaoh totally blameless.

Interesting point, especially about the "blame"

This would be an excellent study, and would break down the "blame" part, and how it would apply to Pharoah being "blameless" in all of this, which leaves the "blame" to fall on Who else?

God.

Thank you kindly.

 

[Biblicist]

Thanks for your thoughts brinny, here is something to chew on though..
We see the first time that the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart is mentioned, The very first time is in
Exodus 4:21, “And the LORD said to Moses, "When you go back to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharaoh which I have put in your hand. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go.”

First, we notice that God states His purpose and what will transpire before it ever happens.

Who would you say is the active/acting agent in the hardening based on what you see above?

God was merely informing Moses that as a result of what God would do to Egypt that his actions will harden the resolve of Pharaoh toward the Israelites which is often what happens in these situations; it does not specifically say that God forced Pharaoh's heart to become hardened.

 

[brinny]

The Bible answers both of your questions in Exodus, chapters 4-14. The answers it gives will not do?

Would you mind posting the verses?

Thank you kindly.

 

[Job8]

We see the first time that the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart is mentioned, The very first time is in
Exodus 4:21, “And the LORD said to Moses, "When you go back to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharaoh which I have put in your hand. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go.”

First, we notice that God states His purpose and what will transpire before it ever happens.

Who would you say is the active/acting agent in the hardening based on what you see above?

The plain answer is that Pharaoh first hardened his heart, and then God hardened his heart. God made that statement to Moses because He knows the end from the beginning. Pharaoh was given multiple opportunities to repent and relent, but he refused to accept them. Finally God hardened Pharaoh's heart so that there was no going back. God knew that Pharaoh would remain unrelenting.

 

[Biblicist]

Interesting point, especially about the "blame"

This would be an excellent study, and would break down the "blame" part, and how it would apply to Pharoah being "blameless" in all of this, which leaves the "blame" to fall on Who else?

God.

Thank you kindly.

Even though Pharaoh was to blame in that he refused to hear God's Word from Moses, he at least began to realise that this foreign God was probably the cause of his countries calamities which is why he reluctantly gave in.

It may be possible that Pharaoh may have been persuaded to let the Israelites go by his advisors and family, I would not be surprised to discover that even though Pharaoh may have been confident that 'their' God was the source of Egypts woes, that the "all-powerful" Pharaoh might have changed his mind where he was now prepared to engage both the Jews and 'their God' in battle to retrieve Egypt's slaves.

In this situation I would expect that God knew full well how this very powerful world leader would react which is not all that different to many of our current and past world leaders have behaved when they've been put under a bit of pressure.

But this is far different from God be able to know if a particular individual will decide to run a red light hundreds of years down the track when he thinks that he has a few milliseconds to justify doing so.

 

[Rick Otto]

Pharaoh hardened his own heart in response to the plagues that God was using to change Pharaohs mind, it had nothing to do with God supposedly hardening his heart as this would have left Pharaoh totally blameless.

I don't agree, based on the difference between being guilty of, and the being responsible for evil.
Isa 45:7 begs the distinction.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by Biblicist2 View Post
Pharaoh hardened his own heart in response to the plagues that God was using to change Pharaohs mind, it had nothing to do with God supposedly hardening his heart as this would have left Pharaoh totally blameless.

I don't agree, based on the difference between being guilty of, and the being responsible for evil.
Isa 45:7 begs the distinction.

Would you care to elaborate?

Thank you kindly.

 

[Rick Otto]

Would you care to elaborate?

Thank you kindly.

Sure. As a father, I am responsible for my children's behavior, but I am not guilty of it nor am I to receive the trophies for their victories.

I caused them to be born, but I do not cause what they do.


How''s that?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

God hardened the pharoah's heart the scripture says
.
and i am reminded when the hebrews entered the promised land they heard that people were afraid of them .. because of what happened in egypt .

 

[Biblicist]

I don't agree, based on the difference between being guilty of, and the being responsible for evil.
Isa 45:7 begs the distinction.

Isa 45:7 "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things".​

Arminians agree with the Calvinist that God certainly purposes some things to happen but this has absolutely no connection with God knowing what someone will choose to do maybe centuries down the track - there is really no connection between the two.

As for Pharaoh, from what we can read from the text, it does appear that God was confident that this powerful world leader would go down the pathway that he did where probably few of us should be surprised that Pharaoh was not perturbed by 'this foreign God' intervening into the life of Egypt.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
Would you care to elaborate?

Thank you kindly.

Sure. As a father, I am responsible for my children's behavior, but I am not guilty of it nor am I to receive the trophies for their victories.

I caused them to be born, but I do not cause what they do.


How''s that?

Please take this a bit further to:

~elaborate on what you mean by being "responsible" for your children's behavior (in what way are you "responsible" and to what degree?)

~are you saying that God was a Father to Pharoah by using your example of a father and his children?

In addition, who does the blame for Pharoah's hard-hearted-ness fall on?

Thank you kindly.

 

[Rick Otto]

KJV:
i form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
That is a claim of responsibility, not an admission of guilt.

 

[brinny]

God hardened the pharoah's heart the scripture says
.
and i am reminded when the hebrews entered the promised land they heard that people were afraid of them .. because of what happened in egypt .

Are ya' gonna leave us hangin', mon?

Care to elaborate?