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Isaiah 45:7 - God made evil?

sickntired771

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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Isaiah 45:7, KJV

God through the prophet Isaiah says he made evil but how do we justify an all loving God with the evil or even if not (morally evil) but rather calamity and wrath that he brings.

Why would God bring devastation to people? In some ways God is like a loving father who adores his child and in other ways he is a very stern and scary disciplinarian.
 

St Phoebe

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Read Job 38,39, 40 and 41 - God is asking Job things that he could not possibly answer. God is a God of love and also a consuming fire. God knows all things and he knows why certain things are a certain way. God created Cain and Abel but Cain killed Abel. Was killing Cain evil? sure but God knew Cain before He was born, could that also be an example of making evil??? Suppose you had a son that was doing all manner of evil, would you not discipline him, suppose he could possibly kill you or other family members, would you not put him out of your house or make him go to jail or something. I suppose when it is needed, we could also be stern disciplinarians. Sometimes if you give your child a spanking when needed, they cry and you knew that was a hard one but in a few minutes time they are all over you again like nothing happened. God disciplines whom He loves and so do we at times.
 
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Job8

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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Isaiah 45:7, KJV

God through the prophet Isaiah says he made evil but how do we justify an all loving God with the evil or even if not (morally evil) but rather calamity and wrath that he brings.

Why would God bring devastation to people? In some ways God is like a loving father who adores his child and in other ways he is a very stern and scary disciplinarian.

That word "evil" is indeed calamaties and disasters. If you remember that God's holiness is absolute and that He hates sin, you will have your answer. But He only brings calamaties after giving sinners ample opportunties to repent. He gave Noah's generation 120 years before they were all destroyed and carried into Hell.

We should also never forget that God made provision through the Lamb of God to save sinners from His wrath and Hell. This was true in the OT as well as the NT.
 
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Bobinator

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Man brings devastation on himself through sin. The devil only has power over us to the extent we yield ourselves to the flesh. (Gen. 3:14) Unfortunately, since we are all part of this world, that means we often suffer as a result of the world's sins. However, Jesus overcame the world and provides us a way out by following after the things of the Spirit like he did until we have received the fullness of salvation as did Enoch, Elijah and quite possibly the Apostle John.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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2 Cor 4:6
Because the God who said,
Out of darkness light shall shine,
is the One who shined in our hearts
to illuminate the knowledge of the glory of God
in the face of Jesus Christ.

God created satan and satan has blinded the thoughts of unbelievers

`` that the illumination of the gospel of the glory of Christ,
who is the image of God, might not shine on them." v 4

God commands light to shine out of darkness and shines in hearts.
God's light in the universe produced the old creation.
His shining now in hearts make for a new creation.

"to illuminate the knowledge of the glory of God
in the face of Jesus Christ."

2 Cor 4:1-6

I can`t see God creating evil itself..
 
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James Is Back

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In this sense it means calamity so no God did not make evil. Some will go and say that God created Lucifer/Satan therefore He is the author of evil which also is not true. He created Lucifer good at first but it was Lucifer's actions that turned him into evil and made him the author of evil.

Would you blame a parent who's adult child killed someone. Just because they gave birth to that person doesn't make them authors of their child's actions or responsible for their child's actions. Same way with God.
 
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Mister_Al

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Please notice the biblical time frame this scripture was written in. At this time Israel was under the Law and at times under its curses. If you'll take a few minutes and go read the curses that God declared would come upon Israel if they broke their covenant with Him you'll see that they were pretty evil.

Blessings,

Alan
 
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pshun2404

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The word the KJV uses for "create" is not correct. Create is " bara" (to call forth from nothingness) and this word is "yatzar" or "make" (to form or give form to) and so is saying that the Lord, from the circumstances and according to the personalities of these people and these two men, will bring His final intent to pass. He works all things together for the good of those who love Him, and He continually had warned them that the wages due for sin is death. For example, if you jump off a skyscraper without a net, will you not plummet into sidewalk splat? Sin, or transgression of the law, is like the consequence of transgressing gravity or any other immutable law. You know you should not do it and lovingly someone has taught you :Thou shalt not jump off the skyscraper" but in our self will we will not have anyone telling us what to do and we jump anyhoo! So the children of Israel had transgressed the law (just as immutable as gravity) and their demise was inevitable. Nebi was going crazy to take over the world anyway. Only this time the Lord was not going to intervene in fact He encourages Nebi to conquer them using those circumstances and conditions which were already present..

Next, the word for evil here is actually not speaking of moral or spiritual evil (and most translations bear this out...especially the Masoretic), it is speaking of sorrow and disaster as opposed to shalom or peaceful wellbeing. These rebellious idolatrous Israelites would recieve the consequence of their willful actions in violation of God's immutable laws. See the warning of love detailed in Deuteronomy 28. So God is not saying He is the originator of evil, He is allowing the disaster that is about to come upon them by simply not doing anything to stop it. He will not look upon them, after all this time (many centuries), with mercy and grace. In Jeremiah, He tells the prophet not to even pray for this people He will not listen. He has given them grace on top of grace over and over and they mock His effort to bless and take all the glory and live a life of debauchery....this is "the arm of the Lord" you do not want to experience. But in the end this will cause them to return unto Him and seek Him, and then, He will save them. So it is not that He created "evil" because evil is not a thing in and of itself it is simply the absence of all good (ultimately Him) just as cold does not really exist but as the absence of heat and darkness the absence of light. Do you understand? I hope so.

Paul
 
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Bobinator

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In this sense it means calamity so no God did not make evil. Some will go and say that God created Lucifer/Satan therefore He is the author of evil which also is not true. He created Lucifer good at first but it was Lucifer's actions that turned him into evil and made him the author of evil.

Would you blame a parent who's adult child killed someone. Just because they gave birth to that person doesn't make them authors of their child's actions or responsible for their child's actions. Same way with God.

I’m afraid I have to disagree. There are no scriptures that support the lucifer story, which is fictitious and was generated to cover for man’s inability to conceive the greatness of God and his overall plan. The Lucifer story is full of holes, inconsistencies and wide–ranged assumptions. God says he created evil. Jesus confirms this in John 8:44.

If there’s anything you want to avoid, it’s changing what the Bible says to fit one’s ideology. By doing so, you’ll never know the truth. Most of us are confused because we’ve been fed lies from the pulpit. The origin of Satan, for all intents and purposes, is described in Genesis 3:14. Before then, he was just an ordinary spiritual being (a serpent), who happened to be the most subtle, or cunning.
 
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pshun2404

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I’m afraid I have to disagree. There are no scriptures that support the lucifer story, which is fictitious and was generated to cover for man’s inability to conceive the greatness of God and his overall plan. The Lucifer story is full of holes, inconsistencies and wide–ranged assumptions. God says he created evil. Jesus confirms this in John 8:44.

If there’s anything you want to avoid, it’s changing what the Bible says to fit one’s ideology. By doing so, you’ll never know the truth. Most of us are confused because we’ve been fed lies from the pulpit. The origin of Satan, for all intents and purposes, is described in Genesis 3:14. Before then, he was just an ordinary spiritual being (a serpent), who happened to be the most subtle, or cunning.

John 8:44 does not confirm that God CREATED evil! This concept is not in the Hebrew of Isaiah 45...read my previous post. If God created evil then God is the father of evil....the one who made the tempted person tempted in the first place.
 
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James Is Back

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If there’s anything you want to avoid, it’s changing what the Bible says to fit one’s ideology. By doing so, you’ll never know the truth

Then I suggest you follow your own advice since what you said was complete nonsense.
 
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Bobinator

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John 8:44 does not confirm that God CREATED evil! This concept is not in the Hebrew of Isaiah 45...read my previous post. If God created evil then God is the father of evil....the one who made the tempted person tempted in the first place.
John 8:44- "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

What part of being a "murderer from the beginning" do you not understand? What part of "never abiding in the truth" do you not understand?

Here's another-
1John 3:8- "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning..."

And yet another-
Isaiah 54:16- "Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy"

Perhaps you and James is Back would like to re-write the Bible. You may first want to consider English lessons and Comprehension 101.
 
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James Is Back

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No we don't need to rewrite the Bible but it seems there are those who twist scriptures around to fit their viewpoint is rewriting the Bible which I am not doing.

God did not create evil that would make him the author of evil which is blasphemous and twisting the scriptures and rewriting the Bible in their own image. So we are not the ones rewriting the Bible here.
 
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pshun2404

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John 8:44- "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

What part of being a "murderer from the beginning" do you not understand? What part of "never abiding in the truth" do you not understand?

Here's another-
1John 3:8- "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning..."

And yet another-
Isaiah 54:16- "Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy"

Perhaps you and James is Back would like to re-write the Bible. You may first want to consider English lessons and Comprehension 101.

So you interpret "from" or "since" the beginning as Genesis 1:1's Bereshith? I see it as meaning at some indefinite earliest point (since the garden to be specific). I say this because their was none to lie to before mankind and none to murder but the persuasion into his lie in the garden brought death to mankind.

Here is the problem (and perhaps you do not have one with this). IF God is the creator of evil in the sense that evil and doing of evil is His irresistible will, THEN that means when Hitler did all that he did it was God willing him to do it and thus Hitler is not really guilty and all his atrocities were nothing more than Hitler doing God's will. Hitler was thus obedient to God's will for him. Sin is a violation of God's laws right? But in this view Sin is lawfully willed? When a man is tempted it is God who made him tempted and intentionally placed the temptation in his path! And when one gives into temptation they are actually doing God's will? Thus it is God's will when the rapist rapes, or when the murderer murders? I disagree...

When God created beings with their own forms of limited free will the potential to obey or disobey was present. True obedience would not be true obedience if one were just a programmed robot or a puppet having their strings pulled against their own will. Love is like this. For love to be truly love it must exist in alongside the possibility to hate. Satan "rebelled"...this very concept implies him doing what God did not will him to do. When God says I set before you death or life choose life, it is not some cruel joke or a lie...if choice was not present the offer is a lie (and God is not a man that He should lie, nor does God tempt any man...)

In His love

Paul
 
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1WayJesus

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When there is something I don't understand in Scripture I usually try to find other verses on the same subject and read them all in context to get a good picture of what God is saying, and then I pray and ask Holy Spirit to show me His heart on the matter. Sometimes we misunderstand or misinterpret Scripture because of tainted lens we are looking through. We need to ask God for His eyes.

Also you can use the Blue Letter Bible (free on the internet) to look up the word in the original language to gain a better understanding of the meaning.
 
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Bobinator

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So you interpret "from" or "since" the beginning as Genesis 1:1's Bereshith? I see it as meaning at some indefinite earliest point (since the garden to be specific). I say this because their was none to lie to before mankind and none to murder but the persuasion into his lie in the garden brought death to mankind.

Here is the problem (and perhaps you do not have one with this). IF God is the creator of evil in the sense that evil and doing of evil is His irresistible will, THEN that means when Hitler did all that he did it was God willing him to do it and thus Hitler is not really guilty and all his atrocities were nothing more than Hitler doing God's will. Hitler was thus obedient to God's will for him. Sin is a violation of God's laws right? But in this view Sin is lawfully willed? When a man is tempted it is God who made him tempted and intentionally placed the temptation in his path! And when one gives into temptation they are actually doing God's will? Thus it is God's will when the rapist rapes, or when the murderer murders? I disagree...

When God created beings with their own forms of limited free will the potential to obey or disobey was present. True obedience would not be true obedience if one were just a programmed robot or a puppet having their strings pulled against their own will. Love is like this. For love to be truly love it must exist in alongside the possibility to hate. Satan "rebelled"...this very concept implies him doing what God did not will him to do. When God says I set before you death or life choose life, it is not some cruel joke or a lie...if choice was not present the offer is a lie (and God is not a man that He should lie, nor does God tempt any man...)

In His love

Paul
I think we generally have trouble understanding someone (or something) as awesome as God with our relative minds, coupled with the fact that we've been given a misleading image of God from those who are also ignorant of his plans and purposes, let alone grasp his omnipotence. After all, how can our carnal and relative minds fully comprehend an absolute spiritual being?

Let me explain things this way- When the military creates obstacle courses and subjects soldiers to severe conditions and punishing trials, do their trainers want them to fail or succeed? Do they have to love the evils those obstacles bring? No. These things are intended to train soldiers so they survive on the battle field.

God created an adversary so that he could raise sons and daughters in his image. When he put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the midst of the garden, it was part of the obstacle course in Adam and Eve's training by which they stumbled and fell. Their choice to be independent, and thus separated from God, is what brought man down. Adam wanted to be God, and he took the bait the serpent placed before him. It was a painful and eternal lesson. On the other hand, Adam and Eve never repented either.

Hebrews 5:8- "Though he were a son, yet learned he obedience by the things he suffered."

Read Matthew 13:44-50. This is what God is after. And He will finally achieve that in Revelations 21 and 22. He will have his bride made of people who are transformed into his image who were purged in extreme heat like gold purified in the fire. (Rev. 3:18-19).

Regarding the Jews, remember what they said when they chose Barabbas over Jesus? They said "Let the sin fall on us and on our children." Many believe the Jews cursed themselves, not to mention their rebellious attitude they still harbour today as a people, which led to their slaughter. Read the books of Chronicles to see how God dealt with Israel and Judah. No different.
 
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Dan Kitzler

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Would you blame a parent who's adult child killed someone. Just because they gave birth to that person doesn't make them authors of their child's actions or responsible for their child's actions. Same way with God.


I'll agree to that! Thank you!
 
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