Do you think the teen in Conneticut should be forced to take chemo?

[SteveNZ]

Here is the bottom line:

If someone has a disease that can be terminal and the goal is to seek a treatment that gives the person the best chance of survival, what does one do?

Do you seek out advice (multiple if they like) from medical professionals who specialize in this area and trust them, or do you take another avenue?

I agree.

This will come across controversial but I believe that the 'alternative medicine' group have earned the unreliable reputation. You just cannot be expected to follow that avenue...... with lives at stake.

My conclusion from what I have studied .............. The valid alternative solutions for such as these cancers is not well documented. By this I mean the solutions having been tested through trusted rigorous methodologies (which yes takes time and money) which implies they are not trusted that well. There would be wonderful new tools available if they were....Society really does want the good.

Why instead of such rigorous testing, are there instead arguments and conspiracy theories!?

 

[DaisyDay]

Are you aware statistics are often distorted? Chemo survival rates do not include the people who relapse with cancer after the main treatment ends.

That is totally untrue. Survival rates are tracked up to 20 years after treatment with five and ten years considered significant.

Chemo kills cancer cells, but cancer is caused by the body chemistry being incorrect, and some cancer may come back.

Different cancers have different causes including certain viruses and environmental causes such as asbestos and smoking, but cancers may recur which is why they are tracked. It is also possible to get an unrelated cancer.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Actually they never got to even look into other treatments. The mom suggesting they get a second opinion led to CPS being called. And then the girl ran away, then she was locked in a hospital room.

 

[SteveNZ]

Actually they never got to even look into other treatments. The mom suggesting they get a second opinion led to CPS being called. And then the girl ran away, then she was locked in a hospital room.

Thank you for that.

Confused - Is a second opinion not well received? That sounds pretty rough......

Here it is no issue at all and often encouraged if folk are concerned. Helping the patients peace of mind is a major part of medical help.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Thank you for that.

Confused - Is a second opinion not well received? That sounds pretty rough......

Here it is no issue at all and often encouraged if folk are concerned. Helping the patients peace of mind is a major part of medical help.

When there kids involved and it seems the parent doesn't wholly embrace what is being said and suggests a second opinion, that's usually a flag for some doctors.

I would be highly wary of a doctor who tried to convince me against getting a second opinion.

 

[DaisyDay]

Thank you for that.

Confused - Is a second opinion not well received? That sounds pretty rough......

Here it is no issue at all and often encouraged if folk are concerned. Helping the patients peace of mind is a major part of medical help.

No, it is recommended before most serious treatments and, in fact, required by some insurance plans.

I don't believe it was because she sought a second opinion but because she removed her daughter from standard treatment before even getting a second opinion.

There have been cases of parents who were prosecuted when they decided on the "alternative treatment" of prayer instead of (rather than in conjunction with) standard medical treatment when their kids died.

 

[SteveNZ]

I can see now that it was the folk on the ground and in the court who saw the various characters face to face.

Do we trust those medical and police folk then court judges to make wise decisions in all that happened?

 

[Hetta]

I can see now that it was the folk on the ground and in the court who saw the various characters face to face.

Do we trust those medical and police folk then court judges to make wise decisions in all that happened?

What is the point in people studying and training for many, many years if they are never to be trusted? If you have a pain in your left shoulder and arm accompanied by breathlessness, will you go to the ER, or will you ignore it and stay home because doctors are untrustworthy? If you are burgled, will you bear with it or call the cops? If you are seeking legal redress, will you take your shotgun and pursue the bad guys, or expect the system to protect you?

I know where I go where I am in pain, or if there is trouble in my neighborhood.

 

[Avid]

I can see now that it was the folk on the ground and in the court who saw the various characters face to face.

Do we trust those medical and police folk then court judges to make wise decisions in all that happened?

There really is a place for the state to make decisions about dangerous situations in the home. Too much has gone unaddressed before, but it does not seem that they always do what we allowed for them to cover.

The foster care system is rendered useless, and there is no money for that if there are no children in their system. Too much of what we see happening is not according to a real danger, but about getting children into the system. However, too many times, we see that DANGEROUS situations go unaddressed. Speaking to others, I hear people with children very concerned, seeing what I mentioned about CPS not doing all they should, and doing things they should not.

More on that later...

 

[Avid]

... Confused - Is a second opinion not well received? That sounds pretty rough...

This is one example, one case. There are others in a link I provided earlier. Not all cases are handled the same way, but disturbing trends are being manifested in many cases handled by CPS (Child Protective Services.)

 

[DaisyDay]

If you put that YouTube link into your browser, you'll see it on YouTube, and get a list that includes the full movie about that cancer cure.

Also, there is a 50 min. film (A World Without Cancer) made in the mid-70s, written and narrated by G. Edward Griffin. He gives a good synopsis of the subject of work done in the 50's by Dr. Ernst T. Krebs, Jr., on a cancer cure. Watch it here.


[***snip video***]


A favorite movie (Medicine Man - 1992) shows Sean Connery playing the part of a doctor that finds a cure for cancer in the South American jungle. Dramatic fiction, but there is more truth there than many would like to consider. Another movie (The Fugitive - 1993) depicts the money influence on drug treatments for disease. This is a huge danger to patients, as lawyers will sue for you for side-effects from most commonly used drugs. Virtually all that info about deaths and bad side-effects was known before each of these drugs were approved.

Dr. Ernst T. Krebs, Jr. not only was not a medical doctor, but his "Ph.d" was an honorary degree conferred by a bible college which had no science degree program and no accreditation for advanced degrees of any kind. "Vitamin B-17" aka laetrile is not a vitamin as it is non-essential. It was taken seriously by the medical establishment to be put into controlled studies, but the studies proved it was not only ineffective but also harmful (responsible for several cyanide poisonings). This didn't stop charlatan alternative treatment providers from bilking desperate people.

Ernst T. Krebs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Laetrile
The Rise and Fall of Laetrile

One compelling reason to find ridiculous the idea that the "medical establishment" has conspired to prevent "a" cancer cure (there are many, many different kinds of cancer with different causes), is that doctors, doctors' families and doctors' loved ones also get and sometimes die from cancer. Think about it.

 

[Kaonashi]

It sounds like a good the courts stepped in. They probably just saved her life. I had almost thesame situation with my mom and her lung cancer a few years ago. I'm seriously glad I put my foot down when a few "wellmeaning" relatives came in from out of state and tried to get her to stop her lung cancer chemo because Doctor Quackery from Mississippi said all she need was "fresh air/sunshine and his magical cancer curing herbal treatment!"The only reason that alt treatments exist in the first place is because there are people stupid enough to buy into it pretty much just like faith healing

 

[SteveNZ]

The Impact of Vaccines in the United States
Disease Baseline 20th Century Pre-Vaccine Annual Cases 2009 Cases Percent Decrease
Measles 503,282 71 99.9%
Diphtheria 175,885 0 100%
Mumps 152,209 1,991 98.7%
Pertussis 147,271 13,214 91.0%
Smallpox 48,164 0 100%
Rubella 47,745 3 99.9%
Haemophilus influenzae type b, invasive 20,000 35 99.8%
Polio 16,316 0* 100%
Tetanus 1,314 18 98.6%

Vaccine Benefits

I think that is great!?

Do folk not remember seeing kids at school who would never be able to walk but have hobble with crutch things? I praise God polio is removed.

Do folk not have friends or relatives who died cruel deaths or became mentally [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] ill for life or were crippled for life? ........ This has now gone in many countries due to vaccinations. That is so good and I thank God for allowing it to be so.

Do folk not remember what tetanus did to your friends? It was cruel...... But now I praise God this is no longer the curse it was?

You do not even need statistics to look around in normal society and rejoice that you cannot see the cruel effects of those diseases in the list above!?

Hmmmm ............. why not consider that likely satan, who loves to hurt and kill is behind the bitter anti-vaccination dispute. I say that carefully.
The bitterness, anger (between parties) and the fact the result of such actions is going to hurt and kill, are all trademarks of evil. Certainly not joy and peace that comes from a healthy life.

 

[Bumble Bee]

MOD HAT ON
This thread has undergone a cleanup. Please refrain from flaming and goading remarks. Remember to address the post and not the poster, and reply to the topic of the thread.
MOD HAT OFF​

 

[sojourner4Christ]

Thank you!

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Getting this thread back to the original topic...

I read in here that someone said if alternative meds were successful, they would now be mainstream.

My personal opinion of that is, no they wouldn't. I do think there's a huge market in cancer treatments today. There is a conspiracy theory that there's a cancer cure or two out there that won't ever see the light of day because it would end the nice deal between doctors and the providers of such therapies. I don't necessarily ascribe to it, but I understand the logic behind it.

I have two friends dealing with cancer. One is currently in remission and is cancer free but is facing a massive amount of debt. When she suggested looking into alternative treatments she said the doctor looked at her like she was crazy. Her cancer is a rare child cancer that can affect adults, but it was caught very early. My other friend is dealing with ACC, which is not curable. Currently she has chosen to try to avoid chemo. Her days are numbered either way. She's had a few surgeries to remove the tumor that was growing in her jaw. She is now missing part of her arm as that went into a graft for the upper part of her mouth. These procedures may have given her an additional 6 to 12 months, no one really knows. The chemo gives her about the same, if the doctors are correct. But she would be very sick from the chemo. She hopes that a cure of some sort can be found while she is alive, and she will continue to fight this, but she's not doing it by pumping her body full of poison.

In both cases, the patients have been second guessed by all of their doctors because they sought alternative routes.

 

[SteveNZ]

Getting this thread back to the original topic...
In both cases, the patients have been second guessed by all of their doctors because they sought alternative routes.

Do you think in cases like this it would work to have available an independent medical 'patient advocate' system.
i.e. Where an independent advocate (likely a team) could review what has happened and simply add their independent review for the courts. If they are funded to be independent then there is a good chance they shall be.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Do you think in cases like this it would work to have available an independent medical 'patient advocate' system.
i.e. Where an independent advocate (likely a team) could review what has happened and simply add their independent review for the courts. if they are funded to be independent them there is a good chance they shall be.

It could, depending on where that independent party came from. But I would be more tempted to say that wouldn't work.

For example, when my husband tried to adopt our oldest son, and my ex wasn't signing the consent forms, my son was assigned to a guardian ad litem (gal). This person was supposed to be his proxy, caring for his individual rights that he had as a 12 year old.

A month into our court case and they fired this guy because I found out he had contacted my ex and said that for a "fee" he could make the case go in his favor.

It was an ADOPTION case for heaven's sake!!!!

The Guardian ad Litem was assigned through the court system.

I wouldn't rely on any "independent" advocate system if it had anything to do with the medical community, because there would be a bias, I believe.

 

[SteveNZ]

...........I wouldn't rely on any "independent" advocate system if it had anything to do with the medical community, because there would be a bias, I believe.

That is pretty sad that the medical community have earned that reputation.

Interesting........... In New Zealand there was quite a fight between the Chiropractors and Medical Society. Over public funding for Chiropractic services as required. It was really a physio verse chiropractor alternative. Note this is my conclusion from one report only.......
The general medical fought without evidence almost with an arrogance stance. Frankly I was embarrassed.....
The Chiropractors (who were the underdogs) shared very good evidence through the qualifications, controls, correct medical research and good summaries.

CONCLUSION: The government funded system accepted the chiropractors (therefore also public funding as required) as a real health treatment service. And not the least being that they could recognise issues that required 'normal' medical help.

Maybe the medical community needs to look at itself from time to time?

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Here in the US there are a lot doctors that think chiropracty is a voodoo junk science.