An attempt to eliminate God.

[VictorC]

To cheapen the grace of God is to use grace as a license to sin and sin is the transgression of the Law.

To cheapen the police officer's grace is to speed off spinning your wheels.

The grace of God does not do away with the Law, it allows us to obey it in spite of our short falls and weaknesses.

Simple isn't it?

But you don't obey the Law, and as a Gentile never had it to begin with.
Your comments lack Biblical support.

 

[VictorC]

There is no straw man! God put the Ten together we can see fit to keep 9 and discard one. Is that not usurping/eliminating God as God? It is God that did it not man. What right have we to choose what we would and would not do. God says do it!
If God did not want the whole of the ten would he not have said so? Heb. 4:8.

You don't keep more than seven of those ten, and it is a singular covenant whereby you broke the entire covenant if you broke one.

 

[VictorC]

That's just really, really sad. For you, it's as if the cross never even happened.

You have summarized the seventh-day Adventist with succinct precision. Ellen White wrote that God would only save those who God declared don't exist.

 

[maco]

But you don't obey the Law, and as a Gentile never had it to begin with.
Your comments lack Biblical support.

You are teaching things that are foreign to the word of God and to the plan of God. God used Israel to represent Him to the world. Israel was to be a light to the Gentiles.

Isaiah 42:5-7
Thus says God the Lord,
Who created the heavens and stretched them out,
Who spread forth the earth and that which comes from it,
Who gives breath to the people on it,
And spirit to those who walk on it:
“I, the Lord, have called You in righteousness,
And will hold Your hand;
I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people,
As a light to the Gentiles,
To open blind eyes,
To bring out prisoners from the prison,
Those who sit in darkness from the prison house.

The whole world was to look to Israel to learn the ways of God, this includes honoring the Sabbath.

Isaiah 56:1-8
Be just and fair to all, the Lord God says. Do what’s right and good, for I am coming soon to rescue you. Blessed is the man who refuses to work during my Sabbath days of rest, but honors them; and blessed is the man who checks himself from doing wrong. And my blessings are for Gentiles, too, when they accept the Lord; don’t let them think that I will make them second-class citizens. And this is for the eunuchs too. They can be as much mine as anyone. For I say this to the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths holy, who choose the things that please me and obey my laws: I will give them—in my house, within my walls—a name far greater than the honor they would receive from having sons and daughters. For the name that I will give them is an everlasting one; it will never disappear. As for the Gentiles, the outsiders who join the people of the Lord and serve him and love his name, who are his servants and don’t desecrate the Sabbath, and have accepted his covenant and promises, I will bring them also to my holy mountain of Jerusalem and make them full of joy within my House of Prayer. I will accept their sacrifices and offerings, for my Temple shall be called “A House of Prayer for All People”! For the Lord God who brings back the outcasts of Israel says: I will bring others, too, besides my people Israel.

Getting more people to believe what you say will still not make it true.

Whether or not someone is able to obey the commandments does not make them void. The standard has been set and God will bring a people up to His standard.

 

[listed]

You are teaching things that are foreign to the word of God and to the plan of God. God used Israel to represent Him to the world. Israel was to be a light to the Gentiles.

Isaiah 42:5-7
Thus says God the Lord,
Who created the heavens and stretched them out,
Who spread forth the earth and that which comes from it,
Who gives breath to the people on it,
And spirit to those who walk on it:
“I, the Lord, have called You in righteousness,
And will hold Your hand;
I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people,
As a light to the Gentiles,
To open blind eyes,
To bring out prisoners from the prison,
Those who sit in darkness from the prison house.

The whole world was to look to Israel to learn the ways of God, this includes honoring the Sabbath.

Isaiah 56:1-8
Be just and fair to all, the Lord God says. Do what’s right and good, for I am coming soon to rescue you. Blessed is the man who refuses to work during my Sabbath days of rest, but honors them; and blessed is the man who checks himself from doing wrong. And my blessings are for Gentiles, too, when they accept the Lord; don’t let them think that I will make them second-class citizens. And this is for the eunuchs too. They can be as much mine as anyone. For I say this to the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths holy, who choose the things that please me and obey my laws: I will give them—in my house, within my walls—a name far greater than the honor they would receive from having sons and daughters. For the name that I will give them is an everlasting one; it will never disappear. As for the Gentiles, the outsiders who join the people of the Lord and serve him and love his name, who are his servants and don’t desecrate the Sabbath, and have accepted his covenant and promises, I will bring them also to my holy mountain of Jerusalem and make them full of joy within my House of Prayer. I will accept their sacrifices and offerings, for my Temple shall be called “A House of Prayer for All People”! For the Lord God who brings back the outcasts of Israel says: I will bring others, too, besides my people Israel.

Getting more people to believe what you say will still not make it true.

Whether or not someone is able to obey the commandments does not make them void. The standard has been set and God will bring a people up to His standard.

So you reject both God's prophets and Jesus (God). That is not all you refuse to accept either. You also refuse to accept the words of Moses, too. Nothing new.

 

[VictorC]

You are teaching things that are foreign to the word of God and to the plan of God. God used Israel to represent Him to the world. Israel was to be a light to the Gentiles.

Isaiah 42:5-7
Thus says God the Lord,
Who created the heavens and stretched them out,
Who spread forth the earth and that which comes from it,
Who gives breath to the people on it,
And spirit to those who walk on it:
“I, the Lord, have called You in righteousness,
And will hold Your hand;
I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people,
As a light to the Gentiles,
To open blind eyes,
To bring out prisoners from the prison,
Those who sit in darkness from the prison house.

The whole world was to look to Israel to learn the ways of God, this includes honoring the Sabbath.

Isaiah 56:1-8
Be just and fair to all, the Lord God says. Do what’s right and good, for I am coming soon to rescue you. Blessed is the man who refuses to work during my Sabbath days of rest, but honors them; and blessed is the man who checks himself from doing wrong. And my blessings are for Gentiles, too, when they accept the Lord; don’t let them think that I will make them second-class citizens. And this is for the eunuchs too. They can be as much mine as anyone. For I say this to the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths holy, who choose the things that please me and obey my laws: I will give them—in my house, within my walls—a name far greater than the honor they would receive from having sons and daughters. For the name that I will give them is an everlasting one; it will never disappear. As for the Gentiles, the outsiders who join the people of the Lord and serve him and love his name, who are his servants and don’t desecrate the Sabbath, and have accepted his covenant and promises, I will bring them also to my holy mountain of Jerusalem and make them full of joy within my House of Prayer. I will accept their sacrifices and offerings, for my Temple shall be called “A House of Prayer for All People”! For the Lord God who brings back the outcasts of Israel says: I will bring others, too, besides my people Israel.

Getting more people to believe what you say will still not make it true.

Whether or not someone is able to obey the commandments does not make them void. The standard has been set and God will bring a people up to His standard.

Nothing here addresses my post. You as a Gentile never had the Law, and you don't keep it. You're arguing against the Gospel's message of redemption that came in the fulness of God's time.

 

[maco]

Nothing here addresses my post. You as a Gentile never had the Law, and you don't keep it. You're arguing against the Gospel's message of redemption that came in the fulness of God's time.

The Law did not come into existence at Mt.Sinai. The Law is the foundation principle of living life in God's creation. Cain was guilty of murder long before the Law on stone. The Law on stone was given because of transgression. Transgression??? You mean to tell me that man was violating the Law before the stone, before the Jew or the Gentile was around? WOW! Something to think about, isn't it?

 

[VictorC]

The Law did not come into existence at Mt.Sinai. The Law is the foundation principle of living life in God's creation. Cain was guilty of murder long before the Law on stone. The Law on stone was given because of transgression. Transgression??? You mean to tell me that man was violating the Law before the stone, before the Jew or the Gentile was around? WOW! Something to think about, isn't it?

It is easy to spot the many places where your post contradicts the Law's testimony, including Moses when he said the Law conveyed in the Mosaic covenant didn't exist prior to his own generation. The result of your post is contention against the Law, meaning you certainly don't abide by it.

Once again your post doesn't address content.

But you don't obey the Law, and as a Gentile never had it to begin with.
Your comments lack Biblical support.

 

[maco]

It is easy to spot the many places where your post contradicts the Law's testimony, including Moses when he said the Law conveyed in the Mosaic covenant didn't exist prior to his own generation. The result of your post is contention against the Law, meaning you certainly don't abide by it.

Once again your post doesn't address content.

The principles found in the Law are part of creation itself. Whether the stone existed makes no difference. Remember, the Law on stone was given because of transgression.

 

[VictorC]

The principles found in the Law are part of creation itself. Whether the stone existed makes no difference. Remember, the Law on stone was given because of transgression.

After admitting your opinion is in error, have you considered where else you may be in error?
You still haven't addressed the content of my post.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

Originally Posted by BornAgainBrian God commands the Sabbath in the Mosaic Law too, but you are fine separating it out from there.
Originally Posted by Elder 111

We have the authority to usurp God?

​

There is no straw man! God put the Ten together we can see fit to keep 9 and discard one. Is that not usurping/eliminating God as God? It is God that did it not man. What right have we to choose what we would and would not do. God says do it!
If God did not want the whole of the ten would he not have said so? Heb. 4:8.

God gave the ten to a specific people. The same to whom He gave the Law. He never mentioned a separation or that either was for gentiles

 

[BornAgainBrian]

How do you mean not mentioned elsewhere? Do you not know or are you pretending?
Liv. 16:
29 And this shall be a statute for ever unto you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you:
30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the Lord.
31 It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever.
If you don't know you need to check. It was kept from even to even just like the weekly Sabbath but it was a yearly sabbath on that date.

that doesn't speak to the plurality mentioned before, nor why it must be one and not the weekly one you try to enslave Christians with

 

[BornAgainBrian]

You are wrong on two counts here.

1. It is not the law of Moses, It is God's ten commandments written with his own hand.
2. It is not what you see/accept that counts but what God requires.

You have not demonstrated that the ten commandments as a whole are for everyone while the law, given to the same people at near the same time, is for Israel.

it also is not what YOU see... And since God doesn't require this, there is no issue there

 

[BornAgainBrian]

The problem is that that is what you are contending. For I have never stated that the law is abolished.

Yet you have said that we are not held to keep the law... But somehow are held to keep the entirety of the ten commandments

 

[BornAgainBrian]

God never commandmed Peter to eat unclean foods. NEVER!!!!!

And there came a voice to him: “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.” But Peter said, “By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.” - Acts 10:13-14

 

[BornAgainBrian]

Grace is not cheapen by the law. It is done so by the removal of the law!

If you are saved by your own amazing works of the law, what need is there for grace?

There is no removal but fulfillment... except that even you have admitted to requirement to keep it all.

 

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by VictorC

All you've done is repeat the failed notion from your OP. You forgot that God didn't give you the Ten Commandments, and it was by His Hand that He took it away in order to extend His salvation to the Gentile nations. The result of your OP is to argue that God acted to abolish Himself.
You are wrong.
​

Originally Posted by Elder 111

The problem is that that is what you are contending. For I have never stated that the law is abolished.
​

No. Your contention is that God sought to abolish Himself when He acted to take away the Law by His own Hand (Hebrews 10:9). Whether or not you recognize this is immaterial at this point. The end result is a severe lack of faith in God's redemption on your part.

Has God removed Himself from His throne? Why would God remove the principles of His government? Such as you should have no other god but me? It is a sick idea!

 

[BornAgainBrian]

To cheapen the grace of God is to use grace as a license to sin and sin is the transgression of the Law.

To cheapen the police officer's grace is to speed off spinning your wheels.

The grace of God does not do away with the Law, it allows us to obey it in spite of our short falls and weaknesses.

Simple isn't it?

As simple as it is, it's a wonder you don't see it.

The Law is not a list of sins, so that is invalid. The Bible is expressly clear that we are no longer under the law, so God is not going to be a "police officer" enforcing something I am not under.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

Re: Maco

Getting more people to believe what you say will still not make it true.

Back at you...

or not someone is able to obey the commandments does not make them void. The standard has been set and God will bring a people up to His standard.

Since you have failed to equate the law with God's standard for all, there is nothing in what you say except baseless claim.

 

[Elder 111]

That's what Adventism does, with their truncated rendition of sabbath "keeping" that doesn't keep the Sabbath holy according to the Mosaic covenant that ordained it. Adventism seeks to remove the Law and strip it of its Holiness, with the end result they see no reason for God's redemption.

Galatians 3
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.​

Adventism exists in a condition "before faith came", and their rejection of the Law hasn't driven them to their knees to seek the righteousness of God, which isn't attained by the Law.

You have no idea of what you are talking about. For the law spoken of here in Galatians is that concerning the earthly Sanctuary and sacrifices for sin etc. But with Christ there is no need of the sanctuary for Christ is the real thing. The high Priest and minster of the true sanctuary. Hebrews 7-10.
The law of the ten commandments could not be referred to Here for the same Hebrews 11 speaks of faith being in existence from the beginning even with Abel. The bible also demonstrates that the Ten commandments ever existed also.
It is great to know the truth indeed it sets you free! Not burdensome but free.