The Masonic Concept of God

[Albion]

Untrue, as usual.

The usual reply whenever the questions have already been answered but you need to say something.

For all: Albion is not a stranger to refusing to engage in uncomfortable discussions.

Quite right. While I answer every serious question from every serious questioner (which the record shows), I do not see the need to engage at length those who only want to spar and don't know anything directly about Masonry anyway. They will say "untrue" no matter what you tell them and avoid entering into any real exchange of ideas.

I might add that much is said on these "Get the Masons" threads to the effect that this person or that person thinks the next person isn't a Christian--by the definition of the first person, that is--while the idea of ACTING like a Christian is pushed into the background.

That's why NOT posting the requested information again and again to no effect and entertaining personal attacks is a policy I think is good to adhere to.

 

[Skip Sampson]

The usual reply whenever the questions have already been answered but you need to say something.

That can easily be put to the test. Where have you answered the question I posted? If you haven't, why would you lie about it?

That's why NOT posting the requested information again and again to no effect and entertaining personal attacks is a policy I think is good to adhere to.

So you feel justified in character assassination? And do you really think that "entertaining personal attacks is a policy I think is good to adhere to?" Why would you think that way? Or is it just your policy when the critics of Freemasonry are involved? Cordially, Skip.

 

[Albion]

Does anyone have anything more to add that's actually ON TOPIC ("This thread addresses the Masonic view of God"--the OP)??

 

[brinny]

This thread addresses the Masonic view of God, and though it is based primarily on documentation obtained from the Grand Lodge of Missouri, it applies to most, if not all, U.S. GL’s. It should be kept in mind that the GL in any Masonic jurisdiction speaks with authority on Masonic matters in that jurisdiction, and all subordinate lodges exist only with the concurrence of their GL. Too, Worshipful Masters of subordinate lodges normally promise to adhere to GL laws, by-laws, regulations, etc, as a part of their swearing-in ceremony. Therefore, what is addressed herein is what is actually taught, and Masons accept such teachings either directly as the GL does, or indirectly by their continued presence as Masons.

The Grand Architect of the Universe (GAOTU) – Being a religious organization, Freemasonry must have an idea of deity, which indeed it has:
Most U.S. GL’s carry the same or similar statements. For example:The MO GL expands upon their thinking with the “LETTER G” discussion in the FC degree (emphasis added):
The GL thus makes three statements of Masonic fact: 1) All Masons believe “that there is one God...”. 2) Allah, Vishnu, Jesus and Jehovah are all names of that ‘one god.’ 3) By their comment “our name” for “that Deity” they note that their name, the GAOTU, is just their name for the deity all Masons believe in.

To make sense of that all, we must first understand just what GAOTU really is:
In short, whether the word ‘God’ is used or the acronym ‘GAOTU,’ the meaning is the same: it’s just a symbol for ‘god,’ and not the name of a particular view of ‘god.’ Since a symbol, obviously, stands for something, it starts to become clear that there is an entity behind these words, an entity which is known by different names to different people, all of which are acceptable. Mason Albert Pike describes such an entity:
When the MO GL states in its Handbook “Before its altar Christian, Jew, Mohammedan, Buddhist, and Confucian may kneel together,” it can do so because of the Masonic view that there is a single god behind their differing views, and it is that being which is the god of Masonry. The Missouri view is in full accord with Masons Albert Pike and Joseph F. Newton:
All men have an imperfect view of the GAOTU, Masonry teaches. For this reason, the lodge uses ‘God’ only as a symbol of deity as he really is, thus leaving Masons with a choice, as H.W. Coil notes:
And it is the reality of this ‘god’ that Masonry is pointing men toward and is the ‘truth’ for which they are to find. It also explains why Masonry teaches that men of different religions can all gather around Masonry’s ‘sacred’ altar and bow in common prayer: they are, in reality, praying to the same god; they just don’t know it.

The individual Mason may protest that he does not support such a view. But since it is the view of the organization to which he belongs, he most certainly does support that view by his continued presence. He has made the choice offered to him by H. W. Coil.

The Exclusivity of Jesus Christ
One logical conclusion of the Masonic teaching on deity is that no one perception of ‘god’ can claim exclusivity in matters of salvation, in that all such views are flawed to one degree or another. Thus, the Biblical view that Jesus Christ is the only means of salvation cannot be accommodated within the Masonic structure. While Masonic ritual makes certain claims about how to be saved, and strongly implies that being a Mason is a safe route to that end, acceptance by faith in Jesus is not one of them. What is stressed over and over again is that a man becoming a Mason is forming a partnership with ‘god’ and that his works under the Lodge’s auspices are what will earn him a place in heaven.

Any religious belief depends upon an authority. For the Christian, that is the Bible, which specifically addresses the means of salvation and is very clear that heaven is only achieved through faith in Jesus. For the Mason, it is the Grand Lodge of his jurisdiction. Any Mason calling himself a Christian should consider carefully this entity call the GAOTU, and ask himself if he really should belong to a group teaching such a concept.

Comments invited. Cordially, Skip.

Thank you kindly for your post. It brought much clarity.

 

[God's Child]

Mod Hat On​

Please remember to submit replies that are relevant to the topic of discussion and not to flame.

Please keep the board rules in mind when posting.
​

Mod Hat Off​

 

[Ellwood3]

The Bible’s God never asked His people to join with surrounding pagan religions and to pray to Him using a common name.



The Masonic idea of the GAOTU, does.

http://formermasons.org/issues/the_masonic_view_of_God.php

 

[Ellwood3]

[FONT=&quot]Men have to decide whether they want a God like the ancient Hebrew Jahweh, a partisan, tribal God, with whom they can talk and argue and from whom they can hide if necessary, or a boundless, eternal, universal, undenominational, and international, Divine Spirit, so vastly removed from the speck called man, that He cannot be known, named, or approached. (Coil’s Masonic Encyclopedia, 1st edition, pg. 516)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
The Masonic Encyclopedia quote is clear the God of the Bible and the Masonic idea of god are different, with the Bible’s true God called a “partisan, tribal God ...”, and their god as a “boundless, eternal, universal, undenominational” international Divine Spirit …”, is a claim that in the Masonic idea of their god, their god is superior.


Pastor Harmon Taylor was a freemason and a Methodist pastor. After Taylor renounced and left freemasonry, he told his congregation why—a congregation with many Masons in it. He called that sermon “Mixing Oil and Water--Christianity and Freemasonry”, and a transcript of it is online. Here is a portion of it:


“Look at the Master Mason degree for a moment; and I'm going to share a little bit about the first degree, too. The Third degree, like those that have gone before, have taken the candidates in blindfolded; their eyes are covered. They can't see. A rope around their neck! You ever been blindfolded? With a rope around your neck? Close your eyes for a minute and imagine that you don't know anything that's going on the other side of the door. What do you think? Comfort and joy?


I went to that Masonic lodge room dressed like I'm dressed today, in a business suit The members of my church were there! Masons! They went into the lodge room and I was told to go into the other room. I get in there, & they closed the door, they told me to take off all my clothes, and put on this cape and this pants that was missing one leg. And the brother stayed there, I didn't even know that man's name! And he's in this small room with me about the size of this platform that I'm on. Then he blindfolded me and put a cabletow, a rope, around my neck.


Then there was a knock on the door, he asked who was there, and the man said that I was a poor, blind, candidate. Desirous of having and receiving a part in the rites, light & benefit of this lodge.


Masons ought to pay attention to the ritual that comes afterwards because I never did. I knew it, I learned it, I memorized it, but I didn't know what it said.


Dear friend, you know what they were saying about your pastor? a born-again Christian pastor? They were saying as he came through the door of that lodge that he was spiritually blind and they say that about every Christian coming thru the door of that lodge.


They weren't talking about the blindfold. The Masons sit on the sidelines, new members come in, the blindfold is on, they assume its physical blindness, but the ritual, the words themselves, are talking about spiritual blindness.


I was led to the end of the back of the lodge room, and I know there's some Masons here, and you can testify to the truth of this, blindfolded, cabletow, and your heart may even be beating a little more rapidly as you hear that senior deacon say that he's about to apply a sharp instrument to your naked right breast. And you are waiting to get shot with a needle, or feel a knife, you don't know, but in a split second that feels like an eternity you feel the point of a compass, you know, the kind you make circles with, and then they lead you on! and you are scared!


You don't think much of any of your friends that are there now. About all you can remember is that you've lived thru it. And then you're told to kneel for the benefit of prayer & they say a prayer, a Godless prayer, and then they ask you in whom you put your trust.


You sure don't put your trust in any of your congregation there who were Masons and that you know are in that place. You'd like to run out but you don't know where the door is because they've moved you around a couple times and you were blindfolded. And you tell them the only thing you can, in God. They say, your trust being in God is well-founded. Rise, follow your conductor, & fear no danger.


Whew! That felt good! You know what that was? That was the lamb being led to the slaughter. …”


“Mixing Oil and Water” on Christianity and Freemasonry, whole talk:
Mixing Oil with Water



Asking a person who identifies himself as a Christian to say he is spiritually blind, is saying he needs the Masons to gain more light than can be obtained from Christianity. It's saying Masonry has more truth or something a relationship with Christ does not.


The Mason, though perhaps without recognizing it, is denying Jesus as the Light of the World.


The Masonic concept of god is that the Christian God, Jesus, is inferior to what they have to offer.


Among Harmon Taylor's writings on Freemasonry, he also has an article in which he tells what happened in his congregation after telling his congregations the truth about the fraternal organization he had left:

From:
A Pastor and Freemasonry: What’s a Pastor to do?


“[FONT=&quot]In the year after I renounced Freemasonry, I personally sat with each Mason in my congregation and shared my testimony. Most defended the Fraternity. Some even began a campaign against their pastor. So be it! "Greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world!" Some left their positions of authority in the church without ever being asked. On October 13, 1985 I delivered a sermon entitled, "Mixing Oil With Water - Christianity & Freemasonry." That light exposed the darkness of Masonry and unrenouncing Masons still in positions of authority fled in shame. In their place God sent new people literally from across this country to take up the slack. Finances that were threatened by these Masonic families, instead, increased by 40%! The pledging units increased by 25%! Pastor, stand for God and He will bless!”[/FONT]


Whole talk:
A Pastor and Freemasonry: What's a Pastor to do?

God never used the term GAOTU as the Masons do, so it follows that neither should we.

 

[Ellwood3]

[FONT=&quot]Men have to decide whether they want a God like the ancient Hebrew Jahweh, a partisan, tribal God, with whom they can talk and argue and from whom they can hide if necessary, or a boundless, eternal, universal, undenominational, and international, Divine Spirit, so vastly removed from the speck called man, that He cannot be known, named, or approached. (Coil’s Masonic Encyclopedia, 1st edition, pg. 516)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
The Masonic Encyclopedia quote is clear the God of the Bible and the Masonic idea of god are different, with the Bible’s true God called a “partisan, tribal God ...”, and their god as a “boundless, eternal, universal, undenominational” international Divine Spirit …”, is a claim that in the Masonic idea of their god, their god is superior.


Pastor Harmon Taylor was a freemason and a Methodist pastor. After Taylor renounced and left freemasonry, he told his congregation why—a congregation with many Masons in it. He called that sermon “Mixing Oil and Water--Christianity and Freemasonry”, and a transcript of it is online. Here is a portion of it:


“Look at the Master Mason degree for a moment; and I'm going to share a little bit about the first degree, too. The Third degree, like those that have gone before, have taken the candidates in blindfolded; their eyes are covered. They can't see. A rope around their neck! You ever been blindfolded? With a rope around your neck? Close your eyes for a minute and imagine that you don't know anything that's going on the other side of the door. What do you think? Comfort and joy?


I went to that Masonic lodge room dressed like I'm dressed today, in a business suit The members of my church were there! Masons! They went into the lodge room and I was told to go into the other room. I get in there, & they closed the door, they told me to take off all my clothes, and put on this cape and this pants that was missing one leg. And the brother stayed there, I didn't even know that man's name! And he's in this small room with me about the size of this platform that I'm on. Then he blindfolded me and put a cabletow, a rope, around my neck.


Then there was a knock on the door, he asked who was there, and the man said that I was a poor, blind, candidate. Desirous of having and receiving a part in the rites, light & benefit of this lodge.


Masons ought to pay attention to the ritual that comes afterwards because I never did. I knew it, I learned it, I memorized it, but I didn't know what it said.


Dear friend, you know what they were saying about your pastor? a born-again Christian pastor? They were saying as he came through the door of that lodge that he was spiritually blind and they say that about every Christian coming thru the door of that lodge.


They weren't talking about the blindfold. The Masons sit on the sidelines, new members come in, the blindfold is on, they assume its physical blindness, but the ritual, the words themselves, are talking about spiritual blindness.


I was led to the end of the back of the lodge room, and I know there's some Masons here, and you can testify to the truth of this, blindfolded, cabletow, and your heart may even be beating a little more rapidly as you hear that senior deacon say that he's about to apply a sharp instrument to your naked right breast. And you are waiting to get shot with a needle, or feel a knife, you don't know, but in a split second that feels like an eternity you feel the point of a compass, you know, the kind you make circles with, and then they lead you on! and you are scared!


You don't think much of any of your friends that are there now. About all you can remember is that you've lived thru it. And then you're told to kneel for the benefit of prayer & they say a prayer, a Godless prayer, and then they ask you in whom you put your trust.


You sure don't put your trust in any of your congregation there who were Masons and that you know are in that place. You'd like to run out but you don't know where the door is because they've moved you around a couple times and you were blindfolded. And you tell them the only thing you can, in God. They say, your trust being in God is well-founded. Rise, follow your conductor, & fear no danger.


Whew! That felt good! You know what that was? That was the lamb being led to the slaughter. …”


“Mixing Oil and Water” on Christianity and Freemasonry, whole talk:
Mixing Oil with Water



Asking a person who identifies himself as a Christian to say he is spiritually blind, is saying he needs the Masons to gain more light than can be obtained from Christianity. It's saying Masonry has more truth or something a relationship with Christ does not.


The Mason, though perhaps without recognizing it, is denying Jesus as the Light of the World.


The Masonic concept of god is that the Christian God, Jesus, is inferior to what they have to offer.


Among Harmon Taylor's writings on Freemasonry, he also has an article in which he tells what happened in his congregation after telling his congregation the truth about the fraternal organization he had left:

From:
A Pastor and Freemasonry: What’s a Pastor to do?


“[FONT=&quot]In the year after I renounced Freemasonry, I personally sat with each Mason in my congregation and shared my testimony. Most defended the Fraternity. Some even began a campaign against their pastor. So be it! "Greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world!" Some left their positions of authority in the church without ever being asked. On October 13, 1985 I delivered a sermon entitled, "Mixing Oil With Water - Christianity & Freemasonry." That light exposed the darkness of Masonry and unrenouncing Masons still in positions of authority fled in shame. In their place God sent new people literally from across this country to take up the slack. Finances that were threatened by these Masonic families, instead, increased by 40%! The pledging units increased by 25%! Pastor, stand for God and He will bless!”[/FONT]


Whole talk:
A Pastor and Freemasonry: What's a Pastor to do?

God never used the term GAOTU as the Masons do, so it follows that neither should we.

 

[brinny]

Thank you kindly for sharing.

 

[Albion]

Thank you kindly for sharing.

The question was asked earlier, answered, and not contested.

Masonry's concept of God is that He exists, is One, and saves mortals.

Beyond that, every member is expected to follow the dictates of his own church and his own conscience.

All the rambling claims that get posted about what some individual who was a Mason decided for himself is just that--what he personally believed. None of it is the "Masonic" view of God.

And then there are the completely fictitious claims, based on hearsay, that can be found on any anti-Masonic website and which no serious inquirer should take at face value.

 

[Ellwood3]

First--sorry about the extra post above; my Posts 127 & 128 are identical. I tried editing but the post doesn't show in the editing box, so I can't delete one of them.

Now for looking at (from post 1):[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

"In short, whether the word ‘God’ is used or the acronym ‘GAOTU,’ the meaning is the same: it’s just a symbol for ‘god,’ and not the name of a particular view of ‘god.’ Since a symbol, obviously, stands for something, it starts to become clear that there is an entity behind these words, an entity which is known by different names to different people, all of which are acceptable. Mason Albert Pike describes such an entity:

The Supreme, Self-existent, Eternal, All-wise, All-powerful, Infinitely Good, Pitying, Beneficent, and Merciful Creator and Preserver of the Universe was the same, by whatever name he was called, to the intellectual and enlightened men of all nations. The name was nothing, if not a symbol and representative hieroglyph of his nature and attributes. The name Al represented his remoteness above men, his inaccessibility; Bal and Bala, his might; Alohim, his various potencies; Ihuh, existence and the generation of things. None of his names, among the Orientals, were the symbols of a divinely infinite love and tenderness, and all-embracing mercy. As Moloch or Malek he was but an omnipotent monarch, a tremendous and irresponsible Will; as Adonai, only an arbitrary Lord and Master; as Al Shadai, potent and a destroyer.” (Morals and Dogma, pg. 208)
​

When the MO GL states in its Handbook “Before its altar Christian, Jew, Mohammedan, Buddhist, and Confucian may kneel together,” it can do so because of the Masonic view that there is a single god behind their differing views, and it is that being which is the god of Masonry. The Missouri view is in full accord with Masons Albert Pike and Joseph F. Newton:"


Adonai is a name of God in the Bible. He is called “only an arbitrary Lord and Master”, compared to Moloch, who is the fire god the Hebrews and pagans sacrificed children to, and who here is called “an omnipotent monarch, a tremendous and irresponsible Will.”



At least Pike, who rewrote the Scottish Rite still in use today in "Morals and Dogma" and which is the source of this quote, considered the God of the Bible--El, Elohom, El Shaddai, Adonai--to be under Moloch.



(It is more powerful to be "an omnipotent monarch, a tremendous and irresponsible will" than an "only arbitrary Lord and Master."

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]MOLOCH (MOLECH) - JewishEncyclopedia.com [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Molech; Moloch - International Standard Bible Encyclopedia [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]El (Al), Elohim, (Alohim), and El Shaddai (Al Shaddai), are all names for the God of the Bible. God is not co-equal or beneath Baal (Bal, Bala) or Moloch (Malek).[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Masonic idea of the Grand (some call it Great) Architect of the Universe, the GAOTU is that it subsumes all other gods (one of whom is God). It combines them all and stands over them.
[/FONT]

 

[Ellwood3]

Thank you kindly for sharing.

You are welcome.

I enjoy seeing that cat spinning on the record player. I think that it is hilarious.

 

[brinny]

hahaaaa thanks, i'm glad you gets a kick out of it too

 

[Ellwood3]

[FONT=&quot]Summary quote from post 1:
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Any religious belief depends upon an authority. For the Christian, that is the Bible, which specifically addresses the means of salvation and is very clear that heaven is only achieved through faith in Jesus. For the Mason, it is the Grand Lodge of his jurisdiction. Any Mason calling himself a Christian should consider carefully this entity call the GAOTU, and ask himself if he really should belong to a group teaching such a concept.

Comments invited. Cordially, Skip. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]



I agree all people who say they are Christians need to consider seriously what is being claimed by Masonry about the GAOTU, and that in addition to asking himself, (or herself if it’s a related group like Eastern Star), more importantly also needs to ask the God of the Bible for His opinion and guidance about Masonry.


There are many Christians involved in freemasonry, and there are also many who have left and formed organizations that help others.



These two links give the Masonic View of God from the perspective of those who were in and now are out:


Order of Former Freemasons


The Men's Club - Ex-Masons for Jesus

 

[brinny]

First--sorry about the extra post above; my Posts 127 & 128 are identical. I tried editing but the post doesn't show in the editing box, so I can't delete one of them.

Now for looking at (from post 1):[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

"In short, whether the word ‘God’ is used or the acronym ‘GAOTU,’ the meaning is the same: it’s just a symbol for ‘god,’ and not the name of a particular view of ‘god.’ Since a symbol, obviously, stands for something, it starts to become clear that there is an entity behind these words, an entity which is known by different names to different people, all of which are acceptable. Mason Albert Pike describes such an entity:

The Supreme, Self-existent, Eternal, All-wise, All-powerful, Infinitely Good, Pitying, Beneficent, and Merciful Creator and Preserver of the Universe was the same, by whatever name he was called, to the intellectual and enlightened men of all nations. The name was nothing, if not a symbol and representative hieroglyph of his nature and attributes. The name Al represented his remoteness above men, his inaccessibility; Bal and Bala, his might; Alohim, his various potencies; Ihuh, existence and the generation of things. None of his names, among the Orientals, were the symbols of a divinely infinite love and tenderness, and all-embracing mercy. As Moloch or Malek he was but an omnipotent monarch, a tremendous and irresponsible Will; as Adonai, only an arbitrary Lord and Master; as Al Shadai, potent and a destroyer.” (Morals and Dogma, pg. 208)
​

When the MO GL states in its Handbook “Before its altar Christian, Jew, Mohammedan, Buddhist, and Confucian may kneel together,” it can do so because of the Masonic view that there is a single god behind their differing views, and it is that being which is the god of Masonry. The Missouri view is in full accord with Masons Albert Pike and Joseph F. Newton:"


Adonai is a name of God in the Bible. He is called “only an arbitrary Lord and Master”, compared to Moloch, who is the fire god the Hebrews and pagans sacrificed children to, and who here is called “an omnipotent monarch, a tremendous and irresponsible Will.”



At least Pike, who rewrote the Scottish Rite still in use today in "Morals and Dogma" and which is the source of this quote, considered the God of the Bible--El, Elohom, El Shaddai, Adonai--to be under Moloch.



(It is more powerful to be "an omnipotent monarch, a tremendous and irresponsible will" than an "only arbitrary Lord and Master."

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]MOLOCH (MOLECH) - JewishEncyclopedia.com [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Molech; Moloch - International Standard Bible Encyclopedia [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]El (Al), Elohim, (Alohim), and El Shaddai (Al Shaddai), are all names for the God of the Bible. God is not co-equal or beneath Baal (Bal, Bala) or Moloch (Malek).[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Masonic idea of the Grand (some call it Great) Architect of the Universe, the GAOTU is that it subsumes all other gods (one of whom is God). It combines them all and stands over them.
[/FONT]

This is especially interesting:

to the intellectual and enlightened men of all nations.

It is written that man's "intellect" and consequently that "enlightenment" is the very thing that will deceive man, for God's (El Elyon's) thoughts are infinitely and inexplicably higher than man's:

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." ~Isaiah 58:8-9

 

[Albion]

There are many Christians involved in freemasonry, and there are also many who have left and formed organizations that help others.



These two links give the Masonic View of God from the perspective of those who were in and now are out:

"Out" because they had personal grievances based upon the particular discipline demanded by their own churches/denominations, or because they had been disciplined in Masonry for not following Masonic rules. Christians who belong to some other church--much better known Christian churches--would inform you that Christianity is not defined by what some non-denominational congregation thinks about it, etc.

Of course, they now make a career, literally, out of attacking Masonry. Anyone who would take their gripes and complaints without questioning them is naturally going to be getting only their own views.

 

[Ellwood3]

"Out" because they had personal grievances based upon the particular discipline demanded by their own churches/denominations, or because they had been disciplined in Masonry for not following Masonic rules. Christians who belong to some other church--much better known Christian churches--would inform you that Christianity is not defined by what some non-denominational congregation thinks about it, etc.

Of course, they now make a career, literally, out of attacking Masonry. Anyone who would take their gripes and complaints without questioning them is naturally going to be getting only their own views.

As you have the right to say why you remain in the body of Masonry, others have the right to say why they chose to leave. Many are convicted, at some point, by the Holy Spirit. Charles Finney, the revivalist was. So was Harmon Taylor.

There are many who choose to abandon Masonry. You claim those who leave either were kicked out or profit seekers. But where is the evidence for your charge?

Especially interesting are those who had people praying for them for years. Praying for those in Masonry and related occult groups (there are many) can help.

Here are some links to some of those who got out of freemasonry:

Charles Finney:


Why I Left Freemasonry - By Rev. Charles Finney
Weighing the counsel of Finney and Moody re: Freemasonry


Finney wrote a book against freemasonry called "The Character, Claims and Practical Workings of Freemasonry." He was one of the biggest revivalists of the 1800’s. This was around the time of William Morgan’s death. Morgan intended to expose freemasonry and was subsequently kidnapped and murdered. When Finney wrote his book, his life was put in jeopardy. He wasn’t thrown out, he left. He did not expose it out of a desire for money, but out of a desire to speak the truth, and encourage others not to enter, or to leave.

Harmon Taylor is a Methodist pastor who left Freemasonry. He told his congregation why in the article “Mixing Oil with Water –Christianity and Freemasonry.”


Mixing Oil with Water


A Pastor and Freemasonry: Whay's a Pastor to do?

There are many groups today that are for those who made the choice to leave their Masonic group. Frequently, they faced loss of business and companionship from their fellow Masons. I don’t think many, if anyone, have ever become rich running a ministry to help those still in Freemasonry and those choosing to leave it behind, and those who have left it.



Testimonies of pastors and former Masons.concerning Freemasnry
Order of Former Freemasons
Former Masons Speak
Testimony of Ex-Mason Duane Washum

 

[Albion]

As you have the right to say why you remain in the body of Masonry, others have the right to say why they chose to leave.

Of course, but this wasn't a matter of "rights." It was a matter of accuracy and why anyone would automatically believe a handful of former Masons who have personal grievances.

I am sure that we could easily find someone to badmouth any organization, no matter how good it is. If you had any direct knowledge of Masonry, I assume you would have posted it for us.

There are many who choose to abandon Masonry.

But far, far fewer than them are Christians who are Masons--Christian Masons who heard all the lies, recognized them as untrue, and stayed members.

That should speak volumes, except that those who want to believe the worst, just dismiss them as deluded or liars. For no good reason, of course. It's just easy to say. I investigated all these claims myself. Do you think I would not? Or that it wouldn't matter to me if your allegations were true? The professional critics have been shown to be wrong time and again.

In addition, many of the objections are objections based upon a particular denominational POV. If one's denomination or church says not to join, then I think such a person should not join! But that doesn't make all of these kinds of complaints applicable to ALL Christians. That would be like some Fundamentalist saying no one can, in good conscience, belong to any organization that uses champagne for toasting at their annual awards banquet! No! That may be the POV of that particular sect, but it doesn't follow that every other Christian is doing wrong participating.

 

[Ellwood3]

Of course, but this wasn't a matter of "rights." It was a matter of accuracy and why anyone would automatically believe a handful of former Masons who have personal grievances.

My intention was to say, a Mason can remain a Mason if he chooses. And can give reasons for staying.

Others can and have left. They are also permitted to speak.

Suggesting others have only left because they were expelled when they have said they chose to leave, without evidence, and saying they did it for monetary gain, without evidence, are simply accusations that are without foundation.

 

[Ellwood3]

In addition, many of the objections are objections based upon a particular denominational POV. If one's denomination or church says not to join, then I think such a person should not join! But that doesn't make all of these kinds of complaints applicable to ALL Christians. That would be like some Fundamentalist saying no one can, in good conscience, belong to any organization that uses champagne for toasting at their annual awards banquet! No! That may be the POV of that particular sect, but it doesn't follow that every other Christian is doing wrong participating.

I have not seen, anywhere I can recall, anyone say something like: "I left because my denomination told me to." Maybe some do.

It's the Holy Spirit who convicts people of sin more often then denominations do.

Your argument boils down to, if it's alright with a denomination, it is alright for a given person, and if it's not alright with a denomination, then it's not alright; there is no objective truth.

But there is objective truth. And the Holy Spirit convicts people of it.

It helps a lot when people pray and ask God to have His will for the sake of unity in the Church about Freemasonry and its related groups, and to ask God to have His will, both praying for specific people in those groups, and also to have His will about freemasonry in general.

Hope you had a good Christmas, Albion. There's still time to hear some great Christmas music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMtuVP8Mj4o

God bless.