Allegiance to a flag rather than God.

[mafwons]

Does anyone here think it is ok to worship the American flag by pledging away our allegiance to it instead of God?

 

[Neogaia777]

Does anyone here think it is ok to worship the American flag by pledging away our allegiance to it instead of God?

I don't...(think it's OK), I will pledge allegiance only to Jesus, I will salute fellow soldiers and service men and women (if I even had the right to, for the honor of what they have done) I will salute them, but I only bow to God, no man...

Pledging allegiance to the flag is like bowing to man or man's systems to me, I honor our service men and women and respect the military, and see why there necessary in this world though...

God Bless!

 

[BryanW92]

Does anyone here think it is ok to worship the American flag by pledging away our allegiance to it instead of God?

Yes. I think that its OK, if your nation is a Christian nation. America is no longer a Christian nation. All of the founding principles of equality, freedom, etc have been corrupted, so the flag as a symbol is now corrupt.

 

[mafwons]

Yes. I think that its OK, if your nation is a Christian nation. America is no longer a Christian nation. All of the founding principles of equality, freedom, etc have been corrupted, so the flag as a symbol is now corrupt.

Not to change the topic of the thread but could you define this ever elusive concept of "a Christian Nation". Equality, freedom and such are fine and they are allegedly American values, but what of that, I can't grasp the correlation.

 

[Tina W]

Does anyone here think it is ok to worship the American flag by pledging away our allegiance to it instead of God?

I don't think pledging our allegiance to the flag is the same as worshiping it. I don't think it's any different than pledging our allegiance to our family etc. and we don't worship our family. Pledging allegiance to and doing what you can to protect your family or country is not the same as worshiping them. So it's okay.

 

[mafwons]

I don't think pledging our allegiance to the flag is the same as worshiping it. I don't think it's any different than pledging our allegiance to our family etc. and we don't worship our family. Pledging allegiance to and doing what you can to protect your family or country is not the same as worshiping them. So it's okay.

It is by meaning and action, I am only wondering if that is right or wrong.

 

[dragongunner]

I don't think pledging our allegiance to the flag is the same as worshiping it. I don't think it's any different than pledging our allegiance to our family etc. and we don't worship our family. Pledging allegiance to and doing what you can to protect your family or country is not the same as worshiping them. So it's okay.

Words of wisdom. If you can't love the country God gave you, don't talk to me about your Love of God. I don't know anyone that worships the flag, so the whole question really doesn't make much sense to me. We are still a christian nation, its just that we have so many that don't believe….majority rule a democracy, but not a Republic. God never needs a majority. The pledge says "…one nation under God". Its was never about flag worship.

 

[mafwons]

Words of wisdom. If you can't love the country God gave you, don't talk to me about your Love of God. I don't know anyone that worships the flag, so the whole question really doesn't make much sense to me. We are still a christian nation, its just that we have so many that don't believe….majority rule a democracy, but not a Republic. God never needs a majority. The pledge says "…one nation under God". Its was never about flag worship.

So does that mean that America is a nation that has recieved Christ as her savior, or how does that work. We were founded on the principals of philosophers who believed strongly in the rights of man, true some of them may well have been Christians but most were probably not, our founding fathers who brought these ideas forward were nearly wholly deists and thus did not believe in the God of Abraham but the god of nature or in the case of say Jefferson the god of his own making.
I by the way care deeply about this country, love would be an odd word to use as loving somthing that is incapable of loving you back is a little strange, unless you take love in the popular venacular of the day, like I love my pants, I love my huge stock portfolio, I love my bank account, that is a base and disgusting love which I have no use for, I feel more strongly about my country than that.
One who pledges allegiance to the flag worships it, I only wonder is this right or wrong, well thats not quite accurate I actually know what I know, I wonder what others think.

 

[Tina W]

Words of wisdom. If you can't love the country God gave you, don't talk to me about your Love of God. I don't know anyone that worships the flag, so the whole question really doesn't make much sense to me. We are still a christian nation, its just that we have so many that don't believe….majority rule a democracy, but not a Republic. God never needs a majority. The pledge says "…one nation under God". Its was never about flag worship.

That's a good point, I agree!

 

[Tina W]

It is by meaning and action, I am only wondering if that is right or wrong.

Allegiance means having loyalty or commitment to someone or something. That's not the same as worship. Worship means to have reverence and adoration for a deity (God). As long as people don't think the flag or America is a god, then it's not worship. It just means we are are pledging our loyalty to America.

 

[mafwons]

Allegiance means having loyalty or commitment to someone or something. That's not the same as worship. Worship means to have reverence and adoration for a deity (God). As long as people don't think the flag or America is a god, then it's not worship. It just means we are are pledging our loyalty to America.

Well I'll be, golly I didn't realize that, shucks you are saying I can serve two masters then. You happen to be.wrong sorry.

 

[terryjohn]

Do we love our country so much that we are silent anout her sins and support her evil ways. The prophets and Christ could not have loved their counties more.

 

[mafwons]

Do we love our country so much that we are silent anout her sins and support her evil ways. The prophets and Christ could not have loved their counties more.

I agree at first, then you go whole hog apples and strawberries.

 

[dragongunner]

Well I'll be, golly I didn't realize that, shucks you are saying I can serve two masters then. You happen to be.wrong sorry.

This and your opening thread show your true nature. You have already made up your mind, and thus didn't start the thread to ask question or really try and learn. That is being dishonest. So argue away, but most of your perceptions are whats wrong. If you really wanted to learn you could go to wallbuilders.com and learn a little more on this countries history. Oh, golly…please sell and get rid of all your money also….you can't serve two masters….too bad you have such a closed mind, there was no use to even of started the thread was there. So what was your motivation, too only prove how right you are and how wrong all others are that don't agree with you…..well shucks….happens all the time here at the forum.

 

[mafwons]

This and your opening thread show your true nature. You have already made up your mind, and thus didn't start the thread to ask question or really try and learn. That is being dishonest. So argue away, but most of your perceptions are whats wrong. If you really wanted to learn you could go to wallbuilders.com and learn a little more on this countries history. Oh, golly…please sell and get rid of all your money also….you can't serve two masters….too bad you have such a closed mind, there was no use to even of started the thread was there. So what was your motivation, too only prove how right you are and how wrong all others are that don't agree with you…..well shucks….happens all the time here at the forum.

Ah I checked out your site and have changed all my evil ways I thank you. Just kidding I used to be a moron, I mean rebuplicrat taken in by such tripe, then I went to war read a few books, the Bible cheif among them and realized that what I was doing was the problem. Hyperpatriotism is the first step (and biggest) to facism. It's funny how people bow to america then shape Jesus to fit that mold, sorry its not true. I am not interested in how right I am or not as conviction is just that.

 

[BryanW92]

Not to change the topic of the thread but could you define this ever elusive concept of "a Christian Nation". Equality, freedom and such are fine and they are allegedly American values, but what of that, I can't grasp the correlation.

Sadly, a lot of Americans can't grasp the correlation.

They start with the straw man that "America was not founded as a theocracy, therefore it was never a Christian nation". America is a nation built on a concept and not on ethnicity, language, or geographical borders. It is the first nation ever founded on the idea that all men are nobility. Go read Toqueville, if you truly want to understand the America of the pre-Civil War. He says a lot about the faith of the early Americans and how the nation exists because of that faith--and it is the Christian faith he's talking about, specifically Protestant Christianity.

Have the courage to learn what America WAS and then you will be able to grasp the idea of how far it has fallen, and why it once was a Christian nation and is no longer.

 

[BryanW92]

So does that mean that America is a nation that has recieved Christ as her savior, or how does that work. We were founded on the principals of philosophers who believed strongly in the rights of man, true some of them may well have been Christians but most were probably not, our founding fathers who brought these ideas forward were nearly wholly deists and thus did not believe in the God of Abraham but the god of nature or in the case of say Jefferson the god of his own making.

They were products of their time. In the 18th century, an educated man did not profess to be a Christian in a way that we would understand as "born again". The humanist teachings of their time made them very guarded in how they described their relationship with God and in how they described God's relationship with humanity.

What we would describe as "born again" was the sort of faith that the lowborn and uneducated person held. But, look at the success of the Methodist Church in early America. That was a church with a theology that brought the layperson into the "inner circle" of the church. It was a church of those lowborn and uneducated people and it thrived in the frontier of early America (i.e. the states bordering the east coast states and the western fringes of the coastal states).

The foundering fathers were Deists by our standards, but they were just a typical Episcopal or Presbyterian of their time. Except Jefferson. He was probably a true Deist.

 

[BryanW92]

Hyperpatriotism is the first step (and biggest) to facism.

Yes it was...in the 20th century. It might still be today if nations meant what they used to mean to people. But, globalism has really ended the ability of a significant population coming to hyperpatriotism.

Actually, the globalism has become a hyperpatriotism of its own, with Transnational Progressives creating a kind of hyper-NON-patriotism that is forming the foundation of fascism in this nation right now. Whatever patriotism your find these days is really just a response to the Progressive's own hyper-non-patriotism.

And, I consider the elites of both parties to be Transnational Progressives. I agree with you about the Republicrat party--the party of the Tranzis.

 

[mafwons]

Sadly, a lot of Americans can't grasp the correlation.

They start with the straw man that "America was not founded as a theocracy, therefore it was never a Christian nation". America is a nation built on a concept and not on ethnicity, language, or geographical borders. It is the first nation ever founded on the idea that all men are nobility. Go read Toqueville, if you truly want to understand the America of the pre-Civil War. He says a lot about the faith of the early Americans and how the nation exists because of that faith--and it is the Christian faith he's talking about, specifically Protestant Christianity.

Have the courage to learn what America WAS and then you will be able to grasp the idea of how far it has fallen, and why it once was a Christian nation and is no longer.

I don't think theocracy means what you think it means. The concept that built America is that men of privlege used those who were not as privleged to fight a war to set them free to make more money at the expense of those with less. The correct name of the author you are refgering to is de Toqueville, and thank you I am quite well read including the works of Alexis de Toqueville, history often lends more light with what is between the lines than with what is actually on them. The founders were deists plain and simple, or athesists, but that was not somthing spoken about at that time as the poor masses who help n they needed to throw off their rulers believed in the God of Abraham. I hate to break it to you, nature's god is not the God of Abraham and Isaac but has been masquerading as such for quite sometime. How far it has fallen has more to do with the people than the country, we are duped by ideas like conservatism and liberalism and the idea that a piece of material with 50 pentagrams on it is worth of our utmost adoration. About a year ago I had some time while at the Smithsonian to check out the Star Spangled Banner ( the flag francis scott key could see from the British prison ship.in Baltimore harbor) the amount of honor given the thing was discusting, the money to preserve could have probably fed some afrivan nation for all time, and why? The only theocracy ever to have existed was the nation of Isreal under the prophets. There is no such monster as a Christian nation, I know you won't get that from faux news but put down the remote grab a book and learn somthing.

 

[Alithis]

I don't think pledging our allegiance to the flag is the same as worshiping it. I don't think it's any different than pledging our allegiance to our family etc. and we don't worship our family. Pledging allegiance to and doing what you can to protect your family or country is not the same as worshiping them. So it's okay.

now lets think about that a little deeper ..what if that pledge of allegiance binds you to disobeying God ..like submitting to a mark in order to buy or sell ?

and on the other thought line in the thread..one does not have to pledge allegiance in order to love ones neighbor. we are called to love our Enemy also ..... food for thought