Last one I promise about baptism

[ByTheSpirit]

There are other places where Jesus Himself said if you will believe and confess you will be saved, there was no mention Iin those places about needing to be baptised as well.

I'm not aware of any confession verses of Jesus. He asked the disciples who he was sure...

But what you bring up is brilliant honestly.

Acts 2:38 is a verse that is often used for salvation, but it mentions nothing of faith or believe, only repentance and baptism.

Titus 3:5 is used by some for salvation, but it doesn't mention faith or belief. Only that God saved us through the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Spirit.

In fact most of the Romans road scriptures do not mention faith.

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, ([bless and do not curse]Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]23-24‬ ESV)

Those verses don't mention faith, only grace. But grace alone doesn't save. If it did then all would be saved, because God's grace reaches everyone.

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. ([bless and do not curse]Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]6‬:[bless and do not curse]23‬ ESV)

That doesn't mention faith, only that eternal life is God's gift.

So you see, if you want to use the whole "well there are many verses that don't mention baptism" approach, you must then use the same for faith. You are also directly negating several scriptures that state baptism and confession do save.

with the mouth one confesses and is saved. ([bless and do not curse]Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]10‬:[bless and do not curse]10‬ ESV)

Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, ([bless and do not curse]1 Peter‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]21‬ ESV)

Those two scriptures (and others) say directly that confession saves us and baptism saves us. So by openly teaching, they aren't needed, it seems to me such positions stand in direct contrast to scripture.

 

[FoundInGrace]

Sometimes there will be people who are saved who never get baptised and I believe they are still saved. There may be a blind spot about getting baptised or like an older couple who moved to my church who had been very sincere believers for many years, their old church just didnt really have the opportunities to get baptised and at the new church they did a Bible Study course with that option they decided to take tgat step. Had they not changed churches they may well have not gotten baptised at all but they were (and still are ) very devoted to the Lord so Iif that had been the case they would still have been saved.

If you think about it, if it is a sin not to be baptised is that not also covered by the precious blood of Jesus should one become saved but not get baptised.
You may miss out on that blessing but the incredible forgiveness boight for us at the Cross means you will still be saved.

 

[ConfuseddotCom]

You would obviously question my salvation then because I have no intention of being dunked, it is not a requirement of salvation.

You've got OCD on this topic, it's unhealthy!

 

[ByTheSpirit]

All judgement is left to God as to the destiny of our souls, I do not even want to take a definite stand on this issue, all I will say about the people who lived, never got baptized thing is that is a dangerous thing. It is.

When did we (talking about Christians in general) get the idea that we could alter God's plan of salvation? Or scripture itself... Let's leave the part of the discussion about baptism being needed for salvation for a minute. What about just obeying Jesus.

Jesus commanded all who followed him to be baptized. He commanded all those followed him to baptize others (in the Great Commission).

So never being baptized is a direct act of disobedience to Jesus. Do we really think those who disobey Jesus and his commands will be warmly welcome into Heaven? Does Jesus promote disobedience? In any form? If he allows it for baptism he has to allow it for all his commands.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

You would obviously question my salvation then because I have no intention of being dunked, it is not a requirement of salvation.

You've got OCD on this topic, it's unhealthy!

Then you are living in disobedience to Christ.

 

[FoundInGrace]

Do we really think those who disobey Jesus and his commands will be warmly welcome into Heaven? Does Jesus promote disobedience? In any form? If he allows it for baptism he has to allow it for all his commands.

um, last time I checked that's me, that's all of us.. none of us obey the Lord 100%, that's why we need Jesus in the first place.

 

[FoundInGrace]

Actually, apologies regarding saying it was Jesus that said this, but this was the verse I was thinking of about believing and confessing.


Romans 10:9

If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

 

[ConfuseddotCom]

Then you are living in disobedience to Christ.

In your humble opinion

 

[ConfuseddotCom]

um, last time I checked that's me, that's all of us.. none of us obey the Lord 100%, that's why we need Jesus in the first place.

I second that

 

[FoundInGrace]

Here's another verse which says believe in Jesus to be saved, doesn't say need to be baptized to be saved.


Acts 16:30-32New International Version (NIV)

30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house.

 

[FoundInGrace]

Another good ol' Romans verse believe and confess and you'll be saved. Praise God for that!


Romans 10:8-10 (NIV)

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”[a] that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

um, last time I checked that's me, that's all of us.. none of us obey the Lord 100%, that's why we need Jesus in the first place.

I got that I know I don't follow 100% correctly. But don't you think there is a big difference between ignorant disobedience and willful?

People may be sinning ignorantly... but such as those who know of baptism, that it is commanded of all believers, and then decide not to do it for whatever reason, that is willful disobedience.

Big difference don't you think?

 

[FoundInGrace]

I second that

 

[ConfuseddotCom]

Why have you got such a hang up about this topic?

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Another good ol' Romans verse believe and confess and you'll be saved. Praise God for that!


Romans 10:8-10 (NIV)

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”[a] that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

I agree, believe and confess, but confession is a work, a physical act that must be done. Belief is in the heart, unseen and unnoticed outside of a view of a large amount of time. Confession is something immediate and something a person must physically do. So does that make confession a work? In my opinion yes, and then why is confession necessary when baptism isn't? Peter stated baptism saves much the same way Paul said confession saves...

 

[ByTheSpirit]

In your humble opinion

I second that

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” (Matthew‬ 28‬:19-20‬ ESV)

That is only one passage where scriptures state believers must be baptized. So again, how are you not living in willful disobedience to Christ by saying you have no intentions of never being baptized?

 

[FoundInGrace]

I got that I know I don't follow 100% correctly. But don't you think there is a big difference between ignorant disobedience and willful?

People may be sinning ignorantly... but such as those who know of baptism, that it is commanded of all believers, and then decide not to do it for whatever reason, that is willful disobedience.

Big difference don't you think?

or they are just not sure what it means to be baptized so are researching it so they can get baptized knowing why and what they are doing, or it is not quite the right timing for them and the Lord, or they know when they do it will mean a great deal so they are processing what it will mean for them and the Lord.

There are many reasons, all good ones, why someone may be not yet baptized. I know for me I was afraid of being soaking wet infront of a whole lot of people, that was a huge deal for me - I wore a lot of make up in those days and was really worried about black streaks being down my face. Also the church I went to we wore white and I had the weird idea it would be see-through when wet. We also were asked to give our testimony before and I was shy of public speaking so it was a big deal to get to the point of doing it. I had lots and lots of fears. I had to work through those with the Lord.

So its good to be careful not to presuppose to know what is going on in someone else's heart regarding baptism because most of the time it is not black and white and is a journey with the Lord.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I got that, and appreciate your honesty. But one in this very thread said they have no intention ever of being baptized. That is a condition of the heart, that perhaps will change over time, but at the present is an act of willful disobedience.

If someone lives years after a "salvation experience" whatever that is, and they never get baptized and then die. When they stand in front of Jesus will, "I didn't know" work? Shouldn't they have searched the scriptures? There is no way a person can read the scriptures, especially in the new testament without coming across a reference to baptism. Given they have adequate time to cover even a small portion of them.

 

[FoundInGrace]

I got that, and appreciate your honesty. But one in this very thread said they have no intention ever of being baptized. That is a condition of the heart, that perhaps will change over time, but at the present is an act of willful disobedience.

If someone lives years after a "salvation experience" whatever that is, and they never get baptized and then die. When they stand in front of Jesus will, "I didn't know" work? Shouldn't they have searched the scriptures? There is no way a person can read the scriptures, especially in the new testament without coming across a reference to baptism. Given they have adequate time to cover even a small portion of them.

Those were their words but do you really know their heart?


I personally think when we finally get to stand before the Lord that there will be bigger issues than whether we got baptized or not.

 

[FoundInGrace]

I'm looking forward to Heaven, being able to know I can go to God and get a big bear hug from my Heavenly Dad, cant wait!