Is the Bible reliable?

[James Is Back]

Folks, you have to get something straight. By saying that Genesis uses figurative language, we're not saying that it's a legend, or a myth or a fable. It's not. The issue is that God put the events into mens' brains and it was written in a way that men could convey to people to understand. The concept that God is outside of time is hard to grasp, and day is a unit that people can grasp. The point is that God created the universe, not how long it took him, because God has no time.

I know there's people who believe that Genesis is a fable or something, but Catholics are not allowed to believe that and still remain faithful. We must believe in Creation, and we must believe Adam and Eve are real people.

Oh I believe that Adam and Eve were real people and that Genesis is literal as far as whether how long Genesis lasted if you side on OEC or YEC is something I still haven't figured out and may end not caring because our Salvation doesn't depend on how old the earth is.

But of course that's for another discussion in the creation/origins forum.

 

[elliott95]

The evolution of mankind would not have happened from one man and one woman, but as a group and a species.
The individuals within that group would have been real enough, and as soon as they had language, they would have given each other names.
There would have been no time when the human species existed as one pair.

 

[AmericanChristian91]

There would have been no time when the human species existed as one pair.

What is THIS?????????


HERESY


Kidding of course. Though some evolutionary creationists consider Adam and Eve a myth, there are some christians who accept evolution, who also accept some kind of Adam and Eve. Some believe that though science has shown that humanity, genetically speaking, never existed with only two people, some would say Adam and Eve represent the first humans who had souls/relationship with God, and therefore though they are not the only humans gene wise, some would consider them the first "true" humans. This is exspecially imporant for Christians who for ideological reasons (such as those in the Catholic Church) have to believe that sin began with two people.

Personally, I don't think it matters if sin is a result from 2 or more people. There being more then 2 humans (souls included) starting the fall of Man, is not going to invalidate Christianity.

 

[elliott95]

If the pope accepts evolution, then he must accept the evolutionary idea that at no time did the human species exist as a single breeding pair.
Evolution happens in populations. It is really important that if people do accept the theory of evolution, then they also accept the implications that has for the historicity of Adam and Eve, by any other name. We did not descend from a single breeding pair. We descended from a population.

This may not be heresy quite yet, but the pressing question remains at what point does the rejection of the historicity of the miraculous nature of the OT lead to the heresy of rejecting the NT resurrection?
At what point does it really start to matter?
For an early Christian community living in a world where the miraculous was accepted as fact, it was not a point of credulity to accept the resurrection as a fact. The miracles of the OT had already established the basis for such acceptance.It was through belief in the OT that belief in the NT became possible.
Evolution makes creation explainable as a natural series of events that follow from scientifically verifiable processes. The same science that purports to give an explanation for creation examines the rest of the OT and finds the history of the Flood and the Exodus and much of the Biblical story to be somewhat lacking. It examines the stories of Jonah and Elijah and Elisha and notes the same literary genres as were evident in Genesis.
Are the miracles and supernatural explanations of the bible in fact all reducible to just to the one?

At what point does it begin to matter?

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

The bible is reliable, but people's methods to interpret it.. are not so reliable, and that leads to verses taken out of context and misunderstood. You can see it all the time in these forums. People don't know what part of the cultural and personal baggage to leave at the door, and what to take with them to apply the Bible's teaching to their life.

 

[elliott95]

The bible is reliable, but people's methods to interpret it.. are not so reliable, and that leads to verses taken out of context and misunderstood. You can see it all the time in these forums. People don't know what part of the cultural and personal baggage to leave at the door, and what to take with them to apply the Bible's teaching to their life.

If the Bible is indecipherable to the people who read it, then that makes its reliability theoretical only, with no practical purposes that can be applied.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

If the Bible is indecipherable to the people who read it, then that makes its reliability theoretical only, with no practical purposes that can be applied.

The bible is only indecipherable to the lost. The bible teaches universal truths that reach all people of all cultures. I repeat, people bring in their cultural baggage which skewers that truth. A person raised in the segregated south would unwillingly apply their bias with biblical teachings towards interracial marriage, for instance. people want to apply the biblical teachings to their life, rather than apply their life to biblical teachings.

 

[elliott95]

The bible is only indecipherable to the lost. The bible teaches universal truths that reach all people of all cultures. I repeat, people bring in their cultural baggage which skewers that truth. A person raised in the segregated south would unwillingly apply their bias with biblical teachings towards interracial marriage, for instance. people want to apply the biblical teachings to their life, rather than apply their life to biblical teachings.

I have yet to meet the person who lives outside of his own culture and his own biases.
Those who are most certain in their own Biblical understanding are often the ones who are just as certain that they are the objectives ones, and it is everybody else who has cultural baggage.

 

[sculleywr]

The bible is only indecipherable to the lost. The bible teaches universal truths that reach all people of all cultures. I repeat, people bring in their cultural baggage which skewers that truth. A person raised in the segregated south would unwillingly apply their bias with biblical teachings towards interracial marriage, for instance. people want to apply the biblical teachings to their life, rather than apply their life to biblical teachings.

Then apparently you must think that everyone outside of the Baptist faith is lost, since they haven't deciphered the same beliefs you have from Scripture. Or you assert that they are either not sincere or do not have the Holy Spirit. Either way, you assert that your beliefs are superior to others, but have no real evidence to back it up or to prove that you do not bring your own personal bias to Scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

The bible is reliable, but people's methods to interpret it.. are not so reliable, and that leads to verses taken out of context and misunderstood. You can see it all the time in these forums. People don't know what part of the cultural and personal baggage to leave at the door, and what to take with them to apply the Bible's teaching to their life.

Which is why I keep pointing out that the efforts to bend-wrench-distort the 7 day timeline given in Gen 1:2 - 2:3 and summarized in Ex 20:11 with the innescapable "SIX DAYS you shall labor...for in SIX DAYS the Lord made.." Ex 20:8-11 -- come not from arguments inside the text, argument from THE TEXT, but rather all those efforts are the result of external-to-the-text agendas.... eisegesis.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

I have yet to meet the person who lives outside of his own culture and his own biases.

The fact that we are prone to some bias or flaw does not limit God in "revealing truth" over time. In John 16 the culture and bias of the disciples was so great that "I have many more things to say to you but you cannot bear them now... the Spirit of truth WILL guide you into all truth".

And in Matt 16 "Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees... the teaching of the pharisees not literal bread".

Yes we are prone to those errors but God is fully able to lead us out of it.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Astonishing Doctrine]

If the pope accepts evolution, then he must accept the evolutionary idea that at no time did the human species exist as a single breeding pair.

Evolution happens in populations. It is really important that if people do accept the theory of evolution, then they also accept the implications that has for the historicity of Adam and Eve, by any other name. We did not descend from a single breeding pair. We descended from a population.

This may not be heresy...

It may not be 'heresy' to Rome, yet it is Heresy according to Scripture, plain as day.

There is no "if" with Francis I, Ratzinger, JP II, &c in regards 'accept[ing] evolution', for them it is a done deal, being "more than a hypothesis", and stated as fact, in numerous official 'teaching'/'declarative' statements. In the second sentence in regards their teaching that "the evolutionary idea that at no time did the human species exist as a single breeding pair", is certain, in their view, even as the heresy of the ethno-centric, localized, flood of Noah, expounded by Romanism.

Scripture explicitly denies those positions from its very foundation, which is Jesus, as given in Genesis, Exodus, &c.

In point of fact, evolutionism, ethno-centric flood ideology, &c that which goes with it, are scientifically bankrupt and defunct, being already falsified in the actual published and peer-reviewed literature. They are lies of satan repeated over and over, vainly, which distorts the Word of God, and are nothing but doubt and unfaith in the plain Word of God, even as it is written.

Men which believe those lies, place their apriori notions, stemming from skeptics, doubters and assaulters of the Word of God, over the Words of God.

For instance, they base their foundation, as such, from people like Charles Lyell, with his hellish uniformitarian mantra, "The present is the key to the past", already warned of by Peter to come in 2 Peter 3:3-7, and Lyell's complete assault on the Scriptural Geology of the Word of God when He said, "... I conceived the idea five or six years ago, that if ever the Mosaic geology could be set down without giving offense, it would be in an historical sketch..." - Life, Letters And Journals Of Sir Charles Lyell, Bart. Page 217 - Source, in otherwords, he would make up out of nothing, his own ideology of history, geology, &c. Further doubts come from Jesuit inspired Lamarck, or from Jesuit inspired Georges LeMaitre, or from Jesuit Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, or Jesuit Voltaire, Jesuit Adam Weishaupt, which through the Jesuit and Hegelian dialectic, sought to bring synthesis in Roman ideology from two proffered obvious falsities, which warred against one another, so that a third compromised lie would be more palatable to peoples and accepted, &c.

For ask those men, where they arrived at their 'ages' for their original conceptions of geology, history, &c, and they will not speak to you of Scripture, but of dates and times of their own, being Satan's, inventions.

It is verily the same doubt which was instilled in mankind by Satan/serpent in the Garden.

All sin, has then sprung from the seed of unfaith, unbelief, even as it is written:

Romans 14:23 KJV "... for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."
​

Paul explicitly states:

Romans 5:12 KJV - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Romans 5:14 KJV - Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Romans 5:15 KJV - But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

1 Corinthians 15:22 KJV - For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1 Corinthians 15:45 KJV - And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
​

Genesis states:

Genesis 5:1 KJV - This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
​

Luke states:

Luke 3:38 KJV - Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
​

Jude states:

Jude 1:14 KJV - And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
​

Scripture records that most men would honour, serve and exalt the creature, more than their Creator. Not only do they lift up the brute beast of the world, but also men's fallen "reason", as unfallen. And so Romanism seeks to make distinction between naturalistic evolution, ie without God, for a theistic one, with God, yet neither are of Scripture.

For ask Rome, in her official position, they will of course state, that men's "reason" remained and still is unfallen, hence why it is written under Roman Catholic "Natural Law" - Source, and of the Papal See - Source & Source :

"quia in his, quae vult, ei est pro ratione voluntas
(Instit. de jure natu. § sed quod principi. Haec quippe.)
and he can do these things, because his will stands for reason."
​

Therefore, whatsoever is not of faith is sin, and sin is the transgression of the Law, no wonder that that head office of the state/church, iron/clay, palace/tabernacle, position is called "the man of sin".

1 Timothy 6:20 KJV - O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane [and] vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

1 Timothy 6:21 KJV - Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace [be] with thee. Amen.
​

 

[James Is Back]

So I take it AD you're a YEC believer?

 

[Astonishing Doctrine]

So I take it AD you're a YEC believer?

I believe the Scriptures, but if you would have me to agree to the term YEC - Young Earth Creationist, you might have to specifically define it, but in general I have no issues with being under that generic label, for the most part, taking only exception to any idea wherein it does not agree with Scripture, and the Testimony of Jesus, known as the Spirit of Prophecy or both the Law and the Prophets, and then also of the findings/writings of others in History, Archeology, and the various fields of Science, Geology, Paleologies, and Logic, &c, all of which can only be useful through the lens of the Word of God, as noted, since He is True and Faithful.

 

[elliott95]

It may not be 'heresy' to Rome, yet it is Heresy according to Scripture, plain as day.

that is your opinion based in your own tradition, and you are entitled to it.
The burden is on you to convince us with your arguments.

There is no "if" with Francis I, Ratzinger, JP II, &c in regards 'accept[ing] evolution', for them it is a done deal, being "more than a hypothesis", and stated as fact, in numerous official 'teaching'/'declarative' statements. In the second sentence in regards their teaching that "the evolutionary idea that at no time did the human species exist as a single breeding pair", is certain, in their view, even as the heresy of the ethno-centric, localized, flood of Noah, expounded by Romanism.

Many Roman Catholics do believe in the literal Flood, and they are free to do so, even if individual popes decline to believe in as much.
It has nothing to do with Catholic dogma either way.

Scripture explicitly denies those positions from its very foundation, which is Jesus, as given in Genesis, Exodus, &c.

Even as the Flood and a seven day creation had been accepted by most Christians and Jews as historic right up until the time of the scientific revolution, few religious scholars and scribes of the Bible gave more than a passing thought to such superficial understandings of these scriptures, as to think that a literal account did any more than scratch the surface.
It is a children's bible that presents the Bible story as plot. Theologians have always been interested much more in the themes, the allegories, the symbolism and the spirituality. Concentrating on plot was deemed to be simplistic.

In point of fact, evolutionism, ethno-centric flood ideology, &c that which goes with it, are scientifically bankrupt and defunct, being already falsified in the actual published and peer-reviewed literature. They are lies of satan repeated over and over, vainly, which distorts the Word of God, and are nothing but doubt and unfaith in the plain Word of God, even as it is written.

Your arguments lack the substance to make them convincing. Repeating the premise with stronger rhetoric is in fact not even an argument.

Men which believe those lies, place their apriori notions, stemming from skeptics, doubters and assaulters of the Word of God, over the Words of God.

The idea that the universe is billions of years old is based in measurement. The fact that there is no world wide flood is based in the evidence that comes through studying the geology of the earth. The genre of writing of the Flood narrative is discerned from the literature that the Biblical Flood narrative was responding to.
Faith ought not to be measured as the degree to which a believer is willing to suspend his disbelief, in the face of the known facts. That is a good attitude to take to a viewing of an animated Bugs Bunny movie, or a spooky horror movie, , but if the Bible is going to be considered reliable at all, it is going to be because the over all messages of the Biblical story convey the wisdom of the ages to us.

For instance, they base their foundation, as such, from people like Charles Lyell, with his hellish uniformitarian mantra, "The present is the key to the past", already warned of by Peter to come in 2 Peter 3:3-7, and Lyell's complete assault on the Scriptural Geology of the Word of God when He said, "... I conceived the idea five or six years ago, that if ever the Mosaic geology could be set down without giving offense, it would be in an historical sketch..." - Life, Letters And Journals Of Sir Charles Lyell, Bart. Page 217 - Source, in otherwords, he would make up out of nothing, his own ideology of history, geology, &c. Further doubts come from Jesuit inspired Lamarck, or from Jesuit inspired Georges LeMaitre, or from Jesuit Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, or Jesuit Voltaire, Jesuit Adam Weishaupt, which through the Jesuit and Hegelian dialectic, sought to bring synthesis in Roman ideology from two proffered obvious falsities, which warred against one another, so that a third compromised lie would be more palatable to peoples and accepted, &c.

For ask those men, where they arrived at their 'ages' for their original conceptions of geology, history, &c, and they will not speak to you of Scripture, but of dates and times of their own, being Satan's, inventions.

Scientific method is indeed is a product of a Christian culture, and Christians faced with the theological paradox posed by the gospels, that we might chose Barabbas, translated as Son of God, over Jesus, the Son of man. Only when certainty and self-doubt become part of the culture, is science possible.
Jesuits and Catholics of course are only a part of the scientific revolution. Protestants and Jews, and now people across all cultures, have become a part of that revolution, which is truly changing the way that we all had once understood the physical world.
There is can be no contradiction between God;s truth and the observations of scientific discovery.

It is verily the same doubt which was instilled in mankind by Satan/serpent in the Garden.

That is a little bit different than scientific discovery actually. The test in the garden was as to whether mankind would chose to abide by God's word over his/her own animal instincts which tend toward the fulfillment of baser desires.

All sin, has then sprung from the seed of unfaith, unbelief, even as it is written:

Romans 14:23 KJV "... for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."
​

Paul explicitly states:

Romans 5:12 KJV - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Romans 5:14 KJV - Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Romans 5:15 KJV - But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

1 Corinthians 15:22 KJV - For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1 Corinthians 15:45 KJV - And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
​

Genesis states:

Genesis 5:1 KJV - This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
​

Luke states:

Luke 3:38 KJV - Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
​

Jude states:

Jude 1:14 KJV - And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
​

Scripture records that most men would honour, serve and exalt the creature, more than their Creator. Not only do they lift up the brute beast of the world, but also men's fallen "reason", as unfallen. And so Romanism seeks to make distinction between naturalistic evolution, ie without God, for a theistic one, with God, yet neither are of Scripture.

Okay.
That is all biblical.

For ask Rome, in her official position, they will of course state, that men's "reason" remained and still is unfallen, hence why it is written under Roman Catholic "Natural Law" - Source, and of the Papal See - Source & Source :

"quia in his, quae vult, ei est pro ratione voluntas
(Instit. de jure natu. § sed quod principi. Haec quippe.)
and he can do these things, because his will stands for reason."
​

Therefore, whatsoever is not of faith is sin, and sin is the transgression of the Law, no wonder that that head office of the state/church, iron/clay, palace/tabernacle, position is called "the man of sin".

1 Timothy 6:20 KJV - O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane [and] vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
​

Sorry. I don't understand Latin. I am missing your point

1 Timothy 6:21 KJV - Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace [be] with thee. Amen.

Some professing indeed have erred concerning the faith.

 

[elliott95]

The fact that we are prone to some bias or flaw does not limit God in "revealing truth" over time. In John 16 the culture and bias of the disciples was so great that "I have many more things to say to you but you cannot bear them now... the Spirit of truth WILL guide you into all truth".

And in Matt 16 "Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees... the teaching of the pharisees not literal bread".

Yes we are prone to those errors but God is fully able to lead us out of it.

in Christ,

Bob

I would agree.
God is not limited by the same human limitations that we are born under.
And Christ's Spirit is with us to the end of the age to guide us into all truth.

The guidance of the Holy Spirit since the opening of the Church on Pentecost Sunday has in fact been extraordinary, and an age of unprecedented discovery and revelation, and a upturning of all values to where the humanity of even the least among us has become recognized as the higher morality by the whole of the world.

And that has all emanated from the Crucifixion and the realization that man crucified as a less than human criminal was in fact the equal of God himself, was the Son of God, was God himself.

That is just solid history to belief all that. The crucifixion of Christ has changed the world. The whole world has been transformed by Christ, and not just Christians and Jews either.

And that transformation has only just begun really.

 

[MKJ]

If the pope accepts evolution, then he must accept the evolutionary idea that at no time did the human species exist as a single breeding pair.
Evolution happens in populations. It is really important that if people do accept the theory of evolution, then they also accept the implications that has for the historicity of Adam and Eve, by any other name. We did not descend from a single breeding pair. We descended from a population.

I think you'll find that the Catholic Church says quite clearly that although evolution is compatible with Catholicism, it is required theologically that Adam and Eve were real individual people, not simply types or allegorical images.

That doesn't mean that they were not part of a larger population, that is left up in the air.

 

[elliott95]

I think you'll find that the Catholic Church says quite clearly that although evolution is compatible with Catholicism, it is required theologically that Adam and Eve were real individual people, not simply types or allegorical images.

That doesn't mean that they were not part of a larger population, that is left up in the air.

I know that is what the Catholic Church insists upon.

And of course, Adam and Eve were real people. Anyone that is able to procreate must be real. We are real, so our parents parents parents parents must be real too.

That doesn't change what evolution postulates about the origins of the human race in a 1000 breeding pairs, or make these people called Adam and Eve any more historical figures than Lucy could be.

Lucy must have been a real person too. Other than what her bones tell us about her, and what can be guessed about her through reconstruction of the best evidence, she is not an allegory for anything either.
But she is not a historical figure. There is no biographical details that we can fill in, as to who her mom was, and who her dad was, who she loved, or what she said.
Not like there is for Jesus or Alexander the Great, or Confucius.

Is it really any different for Adam than it is for Lucy?

 

[Astonishing Doctrine]

that is your opinion based in your own tradition, and you are entitled to it.

The burden is on you to convince us with your arguments.

Not so. Opinion is something stated not necessarily based in Truth or Fact. Scripture is itself Fact and Truth, no opinion about it, lest one thinks to say it is merely God's opinion of matters, and not necessarily Truth or Fact. Which of course, one is free to think, yet consequences still remain in wait at the end of such.

Secondly, It is not my burden at all. There is no such burden upon me. The Scripture states what it states, and either you will accept or reject its plain statements, and judgment of God be between you and it. The only burden I have, is to tell you what Scripture itself says, even as commanded by God, "Preach".

Though men reject the plain Truth of Scripture, and seek to justify themselves in sin and rebellion, does not make them justified in any sense, no matter how much they may wave their hands, and speak aloud.

Many Roman Catholics do believe in the literal Flood, and they are free to do so, even if individual popes decline to believe in as much.

It has nothing to do with Catholic dogma either way.

It was not stated in the previous that Roman Catholicism did not believe in a 'literal flood', though there are instances of which I know, it is entirely doubted to be literal in any sense, yet what was stated in the previous reply, is that Roman Catholicism denies the Global Flood, and reduces it to a mere ethno-centric, localized, one. That is the issue, in the previous.

An individual Roman Catholic, cannot, in any sense go against something defined and taught by the Papal See, unless they would become immediately excommunicated, by Latae Sententiae Canon Law ruling.

Therefore, the discussion was not about 'literal-ness' of Flood, but rather the 'literalness' of the Global Flood, or the Kosmos Cataclysmos, as defined by Peter in his epistles and set forth in Genesis 6-9 and eleswhere, even by the mouth of Jesus Himself.

Here is what the Roman Catholic Encyclopedia states:

" ... geographically universal, or it may have been only anthropologically universal ..."

" ... covering only a certain part of the earth ..."

" ... two hundred years of theological and scientific study devoted to the question have thrown so much light on it that we may now defend the following conclusions:

The geographical universality of the Deluge may be safely abandoned

Neither Sacred Scripture nor universal ecclesiastical tradition, nor again scientific considerations, render it advisable to adhere to the opinion that the Flood covered the whole surface of the earth. ..."

"... The primary meaning of the inspired text urges therefore a universality of the flood covering the whole land or region in which Noah lived, but not the whole earth. ..."

"... (c) There are also certain scientific considerations which oppose the view that the Flood was geographically universal. ..."

"... favour a limited extent of the catastrophe ..."

"... After limiting the extent of the Flood to a part of the earth, we naturally ask whether any men lived outside the region covered by its waters. It has been maintained that not all men can have perished in the Flood for the following reasons ..."

"... As to the teachings of the Bible, the passage which deals ex professo with the Flood (Genesis 6-9), if taken by itself, may be interpreted of a partial destruction of man ..."

An interesting connection is found here:

"... Hence, the typical character of both ark and Flood belongs to the "matters of faith and morals" in which the Tridentine and the Vatican Councils oblige all Catholics to follow the interpretation of the Church. ..."

Even as the Flood and a seven day creation had been accepted by most Christians and Jews as historic right up until the time of the scientific revolution, few religious scholars and scribes of the Bible gave more than a passing thought to such superficial understandings of these scriptures, as to think that a literal account did any more than scratch the surface.

It is a children's bible that presents the Bible story as plot. Theologians have always been interested much more in the themes, the allegories, the symbolism and the spirituality. Concentrating on plot was deemed to be simplistic.

God/Jesus, Noah, Job, David, Prophets, Apostles - Peter, &c all taught the Literal 6 Days of Creation and the 7th of Rest, an the Global Cataclysm of the Flood.

So be it. I will accept the 'children's Bible' as you call it, for I am indeed a Child of the Most High.

Mark 10:15 KJV - Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

Luke 18:17 KJV - Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

Mark 12:37 KJV - "... And the common people heard him gladly."

John 7:17 KJV - If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.​

Paul himself, even though learned, counted his previous knowledge worthless dung:

Philippians 3:8 KJV - Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
​

For those Greeks, which though themselves wise in the things of earth, and of logic, and of science knew nothing, as they ought ot have known and accepted.

"... the Greeks seek after wisdom: ... "

Yet it is written:

1 Corinthians 1:19 KJV - "... I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."

1 Corinthians 1:20 KJV - "... hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?"
​

Yea, the worldly-wise man, will fall and be eternally ruined, because he relies upon his own wisdom, which is no wisdom, but folly and foolishness.

Your arguments lack the substance to make them convincing. Repeating the premise with stronger rhetoric is in fact not even an argument.

The statements were not based in fact-lessness, but indeed, in Fact itself. -

Genesis Week, Season 2, Episode 30; Geological Column Busted; by Ian Juby [Engineer; Producer of Genesis Week; Mensa Member; ie Hi IQ] [Baptist]:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZzIihVUti4

Genesis Week, Season 2, Episode 37; Finale; Fossil Record Busted!; by Ian Juby [Engineer; Producer of Genesis Week; Mensa Member; ie Hi IQ] [Baptist]:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTWZJBXAZJA

Peer Review:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rhF9R9re_s

More to follow.

... There is can be no contradiction between God;s truth and the observations of scientific discovery.

Always agreed upon by those professing Christ Jesus. Not the issue at all.

The problem comes in when men by their own thinking, think that something in Scripture needs to be explained alternatively to the plain reading of any given text by something else found or not found which is external to Scripture.

Men scoff at the idea of a Global flood, as foretold by Peter, because in their apriori view, if such a thing were to have occurred, it would negate their evolutionary and uniformitarian processes and have placed an event-horizon for all practical purposes to their dogma. In short, such a global catastrophic event as recorded by Scripture is entirely incompatible with what passes as evolutionary science, evolutionary geology, etc.

That is a little bit different than scientific discovery actually. ...

No it is not, since Eve placed human wisdom over the wisdom of God, the words of a creature over the words of God, Doubt in place of Faith, and Adam placed his wife above the same.

Satan's 'science' in the Garden was go ahead and see for yourself, by 'testing' my hypothesis that God did not speak the Truth, and mean what He said in regards their death for sin.

They died. God is true. Satan the liar and his theory falsified.

Some professing indeed have erred concerning the faith.

I agree with the Scripture, and it is not I which have erred from it.

 

[Astonishing Doctrine]

Your arguments lack the substance to make them convincing. Repeating the premise with stronger rhetoric is in fact not even an argument.

The statements were not based in fact-lessness, but indeed, in Fact itself. -

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=0rhF9R9re_s

The Biblical and Historical [and Church History] sections are here:

http://www . pearltrees.com/awhn/biblical-creation-history/id1593499

Biblical Historical Timeline [SDA]:

http://timeline.biblehistory.com/home

Longevity [Ages of the Patriarchs] Chart [non-SDA]:

http://www . 3bible.com/illustrations/CSE%20Longevity%20Chart%20Adam%20to%20Joseph.pdf

Creation:

Total Onslaught 251 - The World According to Darwin; Professor/Pastor Walter J Veith [SDA]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=leeS3I_jNGo

Testimony of Walter J Veith - From Evolutionist to Creationist; Professor/Pastor Walter J Veith [SDA]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=rlJH7A5NHT8

Genesis Conflict 01 - The Earth in Time and Space; Professor/Pastor Walter J Veith [SDA]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=qMU1soRrtJk

Genesis Conflict 02 - A Universal Flood; Professor/Pastor Walter J Veith [SDA]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=HZrxogY9Pnc

Genesis Conflict 03 - Bones In Stones; Professor/Pastor Walter J Veith [SDA]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=G7HQzhi8UPM

Genesis Conflict 04 - Where Mammals Reigned; Professor/Pastor Walter J Veith [SDA]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=_3R0bh9LtSc

Genesis Conflict 05 - The Genes of Genesis; Professor/Pastor Walter J Veith [SDA]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=KJ3IgGYf29k

Genesis Conflict 06 - Creation to Restoration; Professor/Pastor Walter J Veith [SDA]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=KCxWhKe1AMg

Genesis Conflict 07 - A Day To Be Remembered; Professor/Pastor Walter J Veith [SDA]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=AyQY5Z3GeG4

Genesis Conflict 08 - A Spade Unearths The Truth; Professor/Pastor Walter J Veith [SDA]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=eOwA9L0IY3I

For More from Professor/Pastor Walter J Veith [SDA], please visit His Ministry Website [I recommend the Total Onslaught, Final Onslaught to begin with]:

http://amazingdiscoveries.tv/vod/

You may also find those materials here:

http://www . pearltrees.com/awhn/amazing-discoveries/id1586158

Lecture at College, Polonium Halos, Falsifiable Evidence For Young Earth [6k] Creation, the Created Rocks, by Dr. Robert V Gentry [Nuclear Physicist] [SDA]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=ZgC-JycBSyo

The Fingerprints of Creation; Dr. Robert V Gentry [Nuclear Physicist] [SDA]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=rTICjwUhSys

The Young Age Of The Earth; Dr. Robert V Gentry [Nuclear Physicist] [SDA]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=XttPuVH4jXc

For more from Dr. Robert V Gentry [ Nuclear Physicist] [SDA], please visit:

http://www . halos.com/videos/streaming-video.htm#cou

http://www . halos.us/

Dealing with the collapse of the Big Bang theory [which theory came from the Jesuit [Roman Catholic] Georges LeMaitre], see here:

http://www . orionfdn.org/

You may also find those same resources together, here:

http://www . pearltrees.com/awhn/halos/id1586161

The Days of Genesis, Literal, 24hr, Consecutive, Days 1 Week, the Bible, Language, etc, by Gerhard F Hasel [Professor Andrews University] [SDA]:

http://www . grisda.org/origins/21005.htm

A Must See Secret History of Dinosaurs/Dragons:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=X4FOsxvCOc4

Why I Believe In Unicorns:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=_YQooBFIPdY

For More see:

http://www . pearltrees.com/awhn/creation-websites-resources/id5102723

God in Ancient China, The Language of the Chinese, Proves the earth is 6k years old:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=DA-AkJzpKmg

The Discovery of Genesis in Ancient China, the Language of China, Book:

http://www . bibleetnombres.online.fr/genesis.pdf

How The Chinese Characters [Language] confirm the Young Age of the Earth and Genesis and Flood Accounts:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=6tSD49zRZxg

The Scriptural Age of the Earth; by Dr. Don Patton [Geologist, Archeologist, etc [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=mub7cIVUU9I

How Old Is The Earth; by Dr. Don Patton [Geologist, Archeologist, etc] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=lPgpflnRYsk

The Laws of Science; by Dr. Don Patton [Geologist, Archeologist, etc] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=tbh7S6WWdMc

What Is Creation Science; by Dr. Don Patton [Geologist, Archeologist, etc] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=XMnSzTwVxFg

The Fossil Record; by Dr. Don Patton [Geologist, Archeologist, etc] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=CMggMRZDD5w

The Fossil Men; by Dr. Don Patton [Geologist, Archeologist, etc] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=eKHyyJ3_qc4

Evidence That Dinosaurs lived with Man, and wereBuried with Man in the Flood; by Dr. Don Patton [Geologist, Archeologist, etc] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=dWe3cteDuBc

Archeology And The Bible; by Dr. Don Patton [Geologist, Archeologist, etc] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=j4ZU2oUaYZ0

The Dead Sea Scrolls And The Undeniable Proof Of The Accuracy And Historicity Of The Bible; by Dr. Don Patton [Geologist, Archeologist, etc] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=UAp6KUwEBZs

The History of the Flood and Facts About Noahs Ark; by Dr. Don Patton [Geologist, Archeologist, etc] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=2AVxRVXHYqo

Malachite Man; by Dr. Don Patton [Geologist, Archeologist, etc] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=WX6KIQVFnZE

Creation Astronomy, The Heavens Declare The Glory of God; by Spike Psarris [ex-Nasa Engineer, ex-evolutionist] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=dPTcnZXN8WY

Our Solar System, Evidence of Creation; by Spike Psarris [ex-Nasa Engineer, ex-evolutionist] [Baptist]:

Official DVD Video:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=Gr8Az3QQZdI

Presentation at a church:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=s9_o7NGTkJc

Our Created Universe; by Spike Psarris [ex-Nasa Engineer, ex-evolutionist] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=na2TL-wcK4I

Young Earth, Young Universe; by Spike Psarris [ex-Nasa Engineer, ex-evolutionist] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=OYpkbCgSNtU

The Big Bang Never Happened; by Spike Psarris [ex-Nasa Engineer, ex-evolutionist] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=P-B2hACS0dQ

Defeating Atheism With Science; by Spike Psarris [ex-Nasa Engineer, ex-evolutionist] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=sh1cXwhY1sE

Complete Interview With Spike Psarris and Ian Juby [Wazooloo; Producer of Genesis Week] [Baptists]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=1y2AK8DdPXo

For More from Spike, sign up for His News Letter, here:

http://www . creationastronomy.com/

The Great Dinosaur Deception; by Dr. Thomas J Kindell [Assemblies of God], his bio may be found here - http://kindell.nwcreation.net/biography.htm

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=nKohJ4bduaE

Worldwide Evidence for a Global Flood; by Dr. Thomas J Kindell [Assemblies of God]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=ScxEvlj0tWQ

The Laws of Thermodynamics; by Dr. Thomas J Kindell [Assemblies of God]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=I1yto0-z2bQ

Evidence For a Young Earth; by Dr. Thomas J Kindell [Assemblies of God]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=qaL0TUVMjpI

The HydropPlate Theory in the Global Flood, by Dr. Walt Brown [Engineer]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=sD9ZGt9UA-U

These are meant to be Serious and Fun at the same time, explanations of Science and the Scientific Method, but in an Ironic/Humorous way:

Creation-Evolution Rant 100; The Dating Methods; by Ian Juby [Engineer; Producer of Genesis Week; Mensa Member; ie Hi IQ] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=bGB-PfFSV2w

Creation-Evolution Rant 101; Carbon 14 Dating; by Ian Juby [Engineer; Producer of Genesis Week; Mensa Member; ie Hi IQ] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=3wMV8Hw99yg

Creation-Evolution Rant 135; Peer Review And Creationists [Young Earth]; by Ian Juby [Engineer; Producer of Genesis Week; Mensa Member; ie Hi IQ] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=0rhF9R9re_s

Creation-Evolution Rant 78; The Boat That Don't Float]; by Ian Juby [Engineer; Producer of Genesis Week; Mensa Member; ie Hi IQ] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=7XZ7LYi85xU

For more Creation Evolution Rants by Ian Juby, please see:

http://www . youtube . com/playlist?list=PLB228C26CBD74D87B

Or here:

http://www . pearltrees.com/awhn/wazooloo-creation-evolution/id7116895

These are more serious, as it is part of the Genesis Week Program:

Genesis Week, Season 3, Episode 23; 10 Questions For Creationists [Young Earth]; by Ian Juby [Engineer; Producer of Genesis Week; Mensa Member; ie Hi IQ] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=Hx32JqqNN98

Genesis Week, Season 2, Episode 11; The Age of the Earth; by Ian Juby [Engineer; Producer of Genesis Week; Mensa Member; ie Hi IQ] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=WThPGrioA4o

Genesis Week, Season 2, Episode 21; A Flood of Evidence; by Ian Juby [Engineer; Producer of Genesis Week; Mensa Member; ie Hi IQ] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=ZnfXvPZhjfs

Genesis Week, Season 2, Episode 30; Geological Column Busted; by Ian Juby [Engineer; Producer of Genesis Week; Mensa Member; ie Hi IQ] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=bZzIihVUti4

Genesis Week, Season 2, Episode 37; Finale; Fossil Record Busted!; by Ian Juby [Engineer; Producer of Genesis Week; Mensa Member; ie Hi IQ] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=lTWZJBXAZJA

Genesis Week, Season 1, Episode 10; Layers of Time; by Ian Juby [Engineer; Producer of Genesis Week; Mensa Member; ie Hi IQ] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=mAHFU3Ub7mA

Genesis Week, Season 2, Episode 25; Toad You So!; by Ian Juby [Engineer; Producer of Genesis Week; Mensa Member; ie Hi IQ] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=2XCES79ymeU

Genesis Week; Special Edition Episode; by Ian Juby [Engineer; Producer of Genesis Week; Mensa Member; ie Hi IQ] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=8AuM3rrRmBA

Genesis Week; Interview With Mark Armitage; Fresh Dinosaur Tissue, Blood, Cells Found and Documented!; by Ian Juby [Engineer; Producer of Genesis Week; Mensa Member; ie Hi IQ] [Baptist]:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=w28FqN1X17s

For More on Genesis Week, see here:

http://www . youtube . com/playlist?list=PL608FF9C588CFD9BC

Or Here:

http://www . pearltrees.com/awhn/wazooloo-juby-genesis-episodes/id7116898

For More on Complete Creation Series, please see:

http://www . youtube . com/playlist?list=PL11166601CA0FB279

Or Here:

http://www . pearltrees.com/awhn/wazooloo-complete-creation/id4824471

The Powerful Documentary is Coming out Soon, The Mystery of Noahs Flood, by Ian Juby:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=Q9u32oTLHQs

http://mysteryofnoahsflood.com/

Sneak Peek at the Documentary:

http://mysteryofnoahsflood.com/campaign/2013/12/06/mystery-of-noahs-flood-preview/

No Evolution, No Long Ages, Stratification of the Geology:

http://noevolution.info/?page_id=37

God of Wonders 2009:

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=QAuGRhZsMCs

High-Tech Society; Pastor Billy Crone of Get A Life Ministries [he is a little loud and a bit sarcastic] [non-SDA]:

Part 1

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=ua1kqAPeIVU

Part 2

http://www . youtube . com/watch?v=_z1OufLYhMw