Something I need to get off my chest about the whole creation/evolution thing.

[anewman1993]

I posted this on another site, but thought it would fit here as well.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel like some stuff really needs to be said about this, because we as a church as a whole keep wanting to follow the "well we need to agree to disagree" concept on this issue, and its not some small issue like the color of the carpet that we need to just push to the side.Thats not how the bible tells of to treat false teaching (and the fact is, both sides can't be right, which means at least one is false teaching). This is as big issue, and I'll explain why.

Ultimately, this is NOT an issue on if god created the earth in 7 days vs millions of years. This is not an issue that just has to do with "is science right", its not just an issue of "well, thats just an interpretation of the bible", its an issue of trust.

Do you trust Yahweh?

We have two sides of this. On the on one side, we have the word of God. It says that the earth was created in 6 days by God(on the 7th he rested).

On the other side we have "science". Saying, well frankly science says a whole lot of different stuff, but very few theory's say the earth was created in 6 days by god. A popular theory is Evolution, so thats what I'm going to focus on.

You have to pick a side. But before we get down to it we need to get something straight. Science, is only our attempt at understanding the world around us. Most of what we know, is probably wrong if history shows us anything. I mean, at one point in the last hundred years we were lobotomizing people (destroying part of their brain) to "heal" mental illness, but we could also look at something much more modern. Just in the few years I was in school the model of the atom changed several times. We are always finding out new things, but every time we learn something new we are probably also finding something we thought to be true to actually be false. This is growth, I love science, however personally, I don't believe it should be looked at for the answer to the "big questions" (how did we get here, what is the meaning of life, ect.), but rather the practical uses (the computer I'm typing this on, my phone, tv, the microwave, improvements in medicine and food production, ect.)

Now,so what we have, is science and God. You can only put your trust in one. You can't say "well, I'm going to believe that science is ok on this one and god is wrong". No. You are putting your trust in humans, over GOD the creator of the universe.

When you say your are a christian and you tell me you believe in evolution, it tells me something immediately, you do not trust god. You can argue with me all you want but the fact is the bible says everything was made in 6, not through millions of years. Seriously, take a look at your life. Do you read your bible every day? Do you spend time in prayer (and actual prayer, not just a quick little one minute diddy before you go to bed or something, but do you actually set time aside every day for prayer). I'm going to hazard a guess that the answer is no, because if you did you would grow closer to god and you would trust him, rather than man.

The choice is yours, you can trust in the creator of the universe, a god perfectly just and full of love, for you, so much that he DIED for you, a god who is perfect. OR you can trust in mans attempt to understand the world around us. However you can't put your trust in both.

Genesis 2:4

> This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.

 

[Targaryen]

I trust that god is far more complex then you wish to make it out as and frankly an unintelligent response to the evolution theory that news flash, a lot of Christians believe in and find no conflict with that and their view of God.

So I see this as yet another example of trouble making.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I posted this on another site, but thought it would fit here as well.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel like some stuff really needs to be said about this, because we as a church as a whole keep wanting to follow the "well we need to agree to disagree" concept on this issue, and its not some small issue like the color of the carpet that we need to just push to the side.Thats not how the bible tells of to treat false teaching (and the fact is, both sides can't be right, which means at least one is false teaching). This is as big issue, and I'll explain why.

Ultimately, this is NOT an issue on if god created the earth in 7 days vs millions of years. This is not an issue that just has to do with "is science right", its not just an issue of "well, thats just an interpretation of the bible", its an issue of trust.

Do you trust Yahweh?

We have two sides of this. On the on one side, we have the word of God. It says that the earth was created in 6 days by God(on the 7th he rested).

On the other side we have "science". Saying, well frankly science says a whole lot of different stuff, but very few theory's say the earth was created in 6 days by god. A popular theory is Evolution, so thats what I'm going to focus on.

You have to pick a side. But before we get down to it we need to get something straight. Science, is only our attempt at understanding the world around us. Most of what we know, is probably wrong if history shows us anything. I mean, at one point in the last hundred years we were lobotomizing people (destroying part of their brain) to "heal" mental illness, but we could also look at something much more modern. Just in the few years I was in school the model of the atom changed several times. We are always finding out new things, but every time we learn something new we are probably also finding something we thought to be true to actually be false. This is growth, I love science, however personally, I don't believe it should be looked at for the answer to the "big questions" (how did we get here, what is the meaning of life, ect.), but rather the practical uses (the computer I'm typing this on, my phone, tv, the microwave, improvements in medicine and food production, ect.)

Now,so what we have, is science and God. You can only put your trust in one. You can't say "well, I'm going to believe that science is ok on this one and god is wrong". No. You are putting your trust in humans, over GOD the creator of the universe.

When you say your are a christian and you tell me you believe in evolution, it tells me something immediately, you do not trust god. You can argue with me all you want but the fact is the bible says everything was made in 6, not through millions of years. Seriously, take a look at your life. Do you read your bible every day? Do you spend time in prayer (and actual prayer, not just a quick little one minute diddy before you go to bed or something, but do you actually set time aside every day for prayer). I'm going to hazard a guess that the answer is no, because if you did you would grow closer to god and you would trust him, rather than man.

The choice is yours, you can trust in the creator of the universe, a god perfectly just and full of love, for you, so much that he DIED for you, a god who is perfect. OR you can trust in mans attempt to understand the world around us. However you can't put your trust in both.

Genesis 2:4

> This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.

The gap theory clears that up well .... can't understand why peeps think they have it all figgered out without looking into all possibilities enough to say that it must be an either or situation.

 

[Gnarwhal]

I see where your problem lies: it's in the fact that from the very beginning you approach this as an either/or scenario. "It has to be science vs. God".

No, it doesn't.

We can't deny the scientific processes and laws that exist: photosynthesis, plate tectonics, gestation, gravity, motion, etc.

These don't somehow rule out the existence of God, it just bears witness to how magnificent he is. The entire cosmos exists within his grasp, that's impossible to realize. Vaguely understanding how grand the Creator is lends all the more to the belief that he's capable of using the means of evolution to form his creation. What's 13-14 billion years to the One who exists outside of time altogether? It's nothing at all, time is completely relative and inconsequential to the Lord.

The story of creation is written in geologic time, this planet has seen some extraordinary and catastrophic things in the 4.5 billion years it's been around, and it's all still part of God's grand design.

My God is big enough that this all fits within who he is.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I see where your problem lies: it's in the fact that from the very beginning you approach this as an either/or scenario. "It has to be science vs. God".

No, it doesn't.

We can't deny the scientific processes and laws that exist: photosynthesis, plate tectonics, gestation, gravity, motion, etc.

These don't somehow rule out the existence of God, it just bears witness to how magnificent he is. The entire cosmos exists within his grasp, that's impossible to realize. Vaguely understanding how grand the Creator lends all the more to the belief that he's capable of using the means of evolution to form his creation.

The story of creation is written in geologic time, this planet has seen some extraordinary and catastrophic things in the 4.5 billion years it's been around, and it's all still part of God's grand design.

My God is big enough that this all fits within who he is.

And we have a winner!

By pitting science against God one is not championing God over and against "man's understanding of creation"; it is in fact pitting God's creative revelation against Himself. When I say "creative revelation" I mean that the natural order is itself a testament of God's creative work, the Psalmist says,

"The heavens declare the glory of God, and the skies above His handiwork. Day to day pours out speech, night to night reveals knowledge. There is no speech, nor are there words, whose voice is not heard. Their voices goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world." - Psalm 19:1-4

Either that is true, or it's not. To deny that we can learn about the natural world by studying it--which is what one does by summarily dismissing the scientific method and the work of science--is to deny the very reality of this passage as a declaration of God's handiwork in creation.

Anti-scientism is not an act of pious or godly courage; it is an act of denying the Creator and Lord of the universe whose handiwork we see throughout the cosmos. In this 14 billion year old cosmos.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Melethiel]

What CryptoLutheran said. It's also highly prideful and offensive to assume that anyone who does not agree with your interpretation of Genesis must not REALLY trust God, read the Bible, or pray. (Also your definition of prayer as an hour long rambling extemporaneous prayer, rather than the use of huge historic prayers of the church.)

 

[Mama Kidogo]

I posted this on another site, but thought it would fit here as well.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel like some stuff really needs to be said about this, because we as a church as a whole keep wanting to follow the "well we need to agree to disagree" concept on this issue, and its not some small issue like the color of the carpet that we need to just push to the side.Thats not how the bible tells of to treat false teaching (and the fact is, both sides can't be right, which means at least one is false teaching). This is as big issue, and I'll explain why.

Ultimately, this is NOT an issue on if god created the earth in 7 days vs millions of years. This is not an issue that just has to do with "is science right", its not just an issue of "well, thats just an interpretation of the bible", its an issue of trust.

Do you trust Yahweh?

We have two sides of this. On the on one side, we have the word of God. It says that the earth was created in 6 days by God(on the 7th he rested).

On the other side we have "science". Saying, well frankly science says a whole lot of different stuff, but very few theory's say the earth was created in 6 days by god. A popular theory is Evolution, so thats what I'm going to focus on.

You have to pick a side. But before we get down to it we need to get something straight. Science, is only our attempt at understanding the world around us. Most of what we know, is probably wrong if history shows us anything. I mean, at one point in the last hundred years we were lobotomizing people (destroying part of their brain) to "heal" mental illness, but we could also look at something much more modern. Just in the few years I was in school the model of the atom changed several times. We are always finding out new things, but every time we learn something new we are probably also finding something we thought to be true to actually be false. This is growth, I love science, however personally, I don't believe it should be looked at for the answer to the "big questions" (how did we get here, what is the meaning of life, ect.), but rather the practical uses (the computer I'm typing this on, my phone, tv, the microwave, improvements in medicine and food production, ect.)

Now,so what we have, is science and God. You can only put your trust in one. You can't say "well, I'm going to believe that science is ok on this one and god is wrong". No. You are putting your trust in humans, over GOD the creator of the universe.

When you say your are a christian and you tell me you believe in evolution, it tells me something immediately, you do not trust god. You can argue with me all you want but the fact is the bible says everything was made in 6, not through millions of years. Seriously, take a look at your life. Do you read your bible every day? Do you spend time in prayer (and actual prayer, not just a quick little one minute diddy before you go to bed or something, but do you actually set time aside every day for prayer). I'm going to hazard a guess that the answer is no, because if you did you would grow closer to god and you would trust him, rather than man.

The choice is yours, you can trust in the creator of the universe, a god perfectly just and full of love, for you, so much that he DIED for you, a god who is perfect. OR you can trust in mans attempt to understand the world around us. However you can't put your trust in both.

Genesis 2:4

> This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.

I don't accept your two choices as the only two choices. When you read Psalm 18, do you really believe your Lord is a literal rock? One word: metaphor. Scripture has many.

 

[anewman1993]

I trust that god is far more complex then you wish to make it out as and frankly an unintelligent response to the evolution theory that news flash, a lot of Christians believe in and find no conflict with that and their view of God.

So I see this as yet another example of trouble making.

Thats the problem, if your a christian this SHOULD be important to you, because you are not trusting in God, if you don't believe his word you are in effect calling God a liar. Which is a BIG issue.

I see where your problem lies: it's in the fact that from the very beginning you approach this as an either/or scenario. "It has to be science vs. God".
.

It DOES have to be God vs Science on this issue, because the bible says something very VERY different from science. To say that they are both right is like saying that going north and going south are the same thing.

What CryptoLutheran said. It's also highly prideful and offensive to assume that anyone who does not agree with your interpretation of Genesis must not REALLY trust God, read the Bible, or pray. (Also your definition of prayer as an hour long rambling extemporaneous prayer, rather than the use of huge historic prayers of the church.)

This is not an "interpretation issue", there is nothing remotly telling in the bible that says this isn't literal. I never said prayer had to be a hour long ordeal, but if you pray as the bible tells us to then you simply can't do it in a single 1 minute deal before a meal.

I don't accept your two choices as the only two choices. When you read Psalm 18, do you really believe your Lord is a literal rock? One word: metaphor. Scripture has many.

They are the only to choices, science and god are saying 2 things that are not compatible, one has to be wrong. the fact is that science is based on human logic, and the bible on gods spoken truth. I'm taking god over humans flawed logic every day.

Also, psalms are songs, they are expect to have symbolism, because they are poetry. genisis is not poetry, its a historical account of creation and several people in early christian/jewish history.

Genesis 1

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.
24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I posted this on another site, but thought it would fit here as well.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel like some stuff really needs to be said about this, because we as a church as a whole keep wanting to follow the "well we need to agree to disagree" concept on this issue, and its not some small issue like the color of the carpet that we need to just push to the side.Thats not how the bible tells of to treat false teaching (and the fact is, both sides can't be right, which means at least one is false teaching). This is as big issue, and I'll explain why.

Ultimately, this is NOT an issue on if god created the earth in 7 days vs millions of years. This is not an issue that just has to do with "is science right", its not just an issue of "well, thats just an interpretation of the bible", its an issue of trust.

Do you trust Yahweh?

We have two sides of this. On the on one side, we have the word of God. It says that the earth was created in 6 days by God(on the 7th he rested).

On the other side we have "science". Saying, well frankly science says a whole lot of different stuff, but very few theory's say the earth was created in 6 days by god. A popular theory is Evolution, so thats what I'm going to focus on.

You have to pick a side. But before we get down to it we need to get something straight. Science, is only our attempt at understanding the world around us. Most of what we know, is probably wrong if history shows us anything. I mean, at one point in the last hundred years we were lobotomizing people (destroying part of their brain) to "heal" mental illness, but we could also look at something much more modern. Just in the few years I was in school the model of the atom changed several times. We are always finding out new things, but every time we learn something new we are probably also finding something we thought to be true to actually be false. This is growth, I love science, however personally, I don't believe it should be looked at for the answer to the "big questions" (how did we get here, what is the meaning of life, ect.), but rather the practical uses (the computer I'm typing this on, my phone, tv, the microwave, improvements in medicine and food production, ect.)

Now,so what we have, is science and God. You can only put your trust in one. You can't say "well, I'm going to believe that science is ok on this one and god is wrong". No. You are putting your trust in humans, over GOD the creator of the universe.

When you say your are a christian and you tell me you believe in evolution, it tells me something immediately, you do not trust god. You can argue with me all you want but the fact is the bible says everything was made in 6, not through millions of years. Seriously, take a look at your life. Do you read your bible every day? Do you spend time in prayer (and actual prayer, not just a quick little one minute diddy before you go to bed or something, but do you actually set time aside every day for prayer). I'm going to hazard a guess that the answer is no, because if you did you would grow closer to god and you would trust him, rather than man.

The choice is yours, you can trust in the creator of the universe, a god perfectly just and full of love, for you, so much that he DIED for you, a god who is perfect. OR you can trust in mans attempt to understand the world around us. However you can't put your trust in both.

Genesis 2:4

> This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.

I rarely get into evolution debates, but have you checked out these boards on CF?

http://www.christianforums.com/f143/
Origins Theology Forum for the discussion of Creation Science (Young/Old) vs Theistic Evolution. Discussion of Atheistic Evolution should be taken to the Discussion and Debate forums.

Creationism (15,856 Posts in 707 Threads) The Atheist Nightmare by mark kennedy, 20th October 2014 04:12 AM
The subforum for young-earth and other creationist members.

Theistic Evolution (6,498 Posts in 354 Threads) Theistic Evolution Challenged by EugenSpierer, 27th September 2014 04:31 PM
The subforum for theistic evolutionist members.

http://www.christianforums.com/f408/

Creation & Evolution (977,189 Posts in 15,911 Threads) about the Flood and the bees by AV1611VET, 21st October 2014 09:50 AM
Forum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers.
There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.





.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Thats the problem, if your a christian this SHOULD be important to you, because you are not trusting in God, if you don't believe his word you are in effect calling God a liar. Which is a BIG issue.



It DOES have to be God vs Science on this issue, because the bible says something very VERY different from science. To say that they are both right is like saying that going north and going south are the same thing.



This is not an "interpretation issue", there is nothing remotly telling in the bible that says this isn't literal. I never said prayer had to be a hour long ordeal, but if you pray as the bible tells us to then you simply can't do it in a single 1 minute deal before a meal.


They are the only to choices, science and god are saying 2 things that are not compatible, one has to be wrong. the fact is that science is based on human logic, and the bible on gods spoken truth. I'm taking god over humans flawed logic every day.

Also, psalms are songs, they are expect to have symbolism, because they are poetry. genisis is not poetry, its a historical account of creation and several people in early christian/jewish history.

Genesis 1

Obviously you have responded to all but my post and therefore have not bothered to look up gap theory, which rather proves my point that those who think they have it all figgered out don't look into all possibilities enough then say that it must be an either/or situation.

Gap creationism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Mama Kidogo]

They are the only to choices, science and god are saying 2 things that are not compatible, one has to be wrong. the fact is that science is based on human logic, and the bible on gods spoken truth. I'm taking god over humans flawed logic every day.

Also, psalms are songs, they are expect to have symbolism, because they are poetry. genisis is not poetry, its a historical account of creation and several people in early christian/jewish history.

I disagree. First the Psalms are prayers that are sung rather than simply songs. I can also show non Psalmic scripture saying Christ is the rock. To say Genesis is not poetic in nature shows a lack of study in Hebraic poetry.
The two are indeed compatible. But only when one reads it as it's written which is not in a historical textbook fashion.
Science and God are not at war. Science is truth. Now theory (what you are really speaking of rather than science) is an educated guess based on scientific facts or religious beliefs.
It is not science that the universe began with a big bang nor is it science that God created everything in six 24 hour days. Matter of fact scripture does not say anything about how long these 'days' were except that they were from evening to morning which if taken literally would have God doing it all in the dark.
So how is it that most 6000 year old earth believers find it quite simple to read revelation and accept that days are not literal days but rather ages? A little consistency would be welcome.
Also saying those who do not hold your belief exactly are calling God a liar is uncalled for. I just asked you if your Lord was a literal rock and you seemed not to find saying no as not calling God a liar. Can we be just a little consistent?
By the way, God did not pen Genesis. A man inspired did. And he explained creation as best he could. Pretty sure said man was not an eye witness but inspired to pen it in a way people could grasp that God created all things created.

 

[pshun2404]

Skip the gap-theory and consider the word itself

Genesis 1 – “day”

The Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (1980, Moody Press)

"It can denote: 1. the period of light (as contrasted with the period of darkness), 2. the period of twenty-four hours, 3. a general vague "time," 4. a point of time, 5. a year (in the plural; I Sam 27:7; Ex 13:10, etc.)."

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible (symbols omitted)

from an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literal (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), [often used adv.]:--age, + always, + chronicles, continually (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, end, evening, (for)ever(lasting), ever(more), full, life, as long as (...live), even now, old, outlived, perpetually, presently, remaining, required, season, since, space, then, (process of) time, as at other times, in trouble, weather (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), whole age, (full) year (-ly), younger

In Genesis 1:5 it is a period of light. Genesis 1:14 it is more than one day. In Genesis 2:4 Yom is the entire creation period. Genesis 4:3, it says "And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord." Yom = a complete process of time. In Genesis 18:11; and 21:2,7 it means old age (see Genesis 47). Genesis 40:4, "...and they continued a season inward." Here it is a non-defined season.

The use by this same author, in this same book, range all the way from a 12 hour period of light to forever. Moses uses the word in all these varied ways all throughout the Torah so as for use and etymology it could mean a part of a day, a literal 24 hour period, 1,000 years of any segment therein or beyond. One argument that is worth considering however our understanding that a day can only mean (not you) 24 literal hours is brought into question in that this definition is dependent on a created earth which makes one rotation in relation to a created sun…these did not exist until after day three…

Brother Paul

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Where's Rockytopva when you need him He has a great explaination.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Obviously you have responded to all but my post and therefore have not bothered to look up gap theory, which rather proves my point that those who think they have it all figgered out don't look into all possibilities enough then say that it must be an either/or situation.

Gap creationism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Skip the gap-theory and consider the word itself......................

Brother Paul

The gap theory is a rather fascinating study and one theory I am leaning toward.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...a=X&ei=aYBGVKmhD8rCsAT2kILwDw&ved=0CCUQrQIwAQ
gap theory christianforums site

http://www.christianforums.com/t7524693-5/
The Gap Theory

A historical perspective by Ole Madsen on the Gap Theory.

Gap theory page - what is the gap theory?

If you read no other link, read this one by Chuck Missler.

The gap theory page - Chuck Missler - The Gospel in Genesis

Arthur C. Custance on the long held view of the Gap Theory.

Gap theory page - Arthur C Custance

C. I. Schofield on Genesis 1.

The gap theory page - C. I. Scofield - Scofield-Genesis

A. W. Pink on Genesis.

The gap theory page - A W Pink - Gleanings In Genesis: 1. Creation and Restoration

Just a few of the links on this website. Steven E. Dill, D.V.M. has written a new book on the Gap Theory called "In the Beginnings" that I plan to read, but I haven't ordered it yet. I imagine I will do that tonight.

.

 

[Melethiel]

Genesis 1 is a hymn, not a historical account. It has stanzas, for heavens sake. It is just as poetic as the psalms. Moreover, the point of Genesis 1 is to make clear that even though there are realms and rulers (the sun ruling over the sky, the fish ruling over the sea, etc) which are laid out in a very parallel fashion, God is the ruler over them all. The point of the poem is to make clear that we are to worship God, not the sun, in contrast to what all the surrounding nations were doing. To insist that it is a science book is to miss the point.

I trust that God created the earth. I do not agree with your interpretation of Genesis 1 in that I do not think it is meant to answer the question of HOW, but rather WHY.

 

[PaladinValer]

I echo the posts of ViaCrucis, LiberalAnglicanCatholic, Melethiel, Kama Kidogo, and Darth Bagel.

 

[Jig]

I see where your problem lies: it's in the fact that from the very beginning you approach this as an either/or scenario. "It has to be science vs. God".

I agree that this is not an issue of science vs God. However, there still exists an "either/or scenario" in this debate. What we are dealing with here is "natural phenomena vs supernatural phenomena".

Young-earth creationists do not believe the world is "naturally" young. That would be ridiculous. They believe it is miraculously young. For example, when Jesus supernaturally created wine in Cana (John 2), the water instantly turned into real fermented grape juice. However, because it was create by a miracle, no actual grape seeds were planted. No grapes were grown, harvested, smashed, fermented, bottled, distributed, etc.

Yet, a scientist looking at this same wine would not know this. He would "assume" this past history of the wine based on how he observed other wines being made. But he didn't observe this wine being made. In this instance, he would be wrong.

The same can be said about the world and the universe (at least before the Fall/Flood). If God wanted to created a planet that was instantly habitable. He could. It would look mature, not because it went through a process of maturity, but because God supernaturally made it mature.

 

[Targaryen]

Thats the problem, if your a christian this SHOULD be important to you, because you are not trusting in God, if you don't believe his word you are in effect calling God a liar. Which is a BIG issue.

Actually no I believe his Word, I just don't think that you grasp the subtleties and complexities of the word as still being completely relevant even in the light of evolutionary science.

Only one accusing God of being a liar, is you.

Now isn't that interesting. You are sounding a bit presumptuous there don't you think?

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Genesis 1 is a hymn, not a historical account. It has stanzas, for heavens sake. It is just as poetic as the psalms. Moreover, the point of Genesis 1 is to make clear that even though there are realms and rulers (the sun ruling over the sky, the fish ruling over the sea, etc) which are laid out in a very parallel fashion, God is the ruler over them all. The point of the poem is to make clear that we are to worship God, not the sun, in contrast to what all the surrounding nations were doing. To insist that it is a science book is to miss the point.

I trust that God created the earth. I do not agree with your interpretation of Genesis 1 in that I do not think it is meant to answer the question of HOW, but rather WHY.

Good post.
Sometimes I get the idea that young earthers don't understand that non young earthers believe God created all things created. Christian evolutionists are not so silly as to not understand God did it and that it wasn't just some cosmic accident.
I hold no specific theory too closely. I'm content to wait and see when all things are revealed. It doesn't really effect my faith one way or the other. It's not the scriptures or my interpretation of them I worship anyway.

 

[Targaryen]

Good post.
Sometimes I get the idea that young earthers don't understand that non young earthers believe God created all things created. Christian evolutionists are not so silly as to not understand God did it and that it wasn't just some cosmic accident.
I hold no specific theory too closely. I'm content to wait and see when all things are revealed. It doesn't really effect my faith one way or the other. It's not the scriptures or my interpretation of them I worship anyway.

Isn't that what it comes down to though, YEC's usually the most vocal that somehow if we don't follow their idea rather blindly, we are "worshipping" something foreign?

It's the same tired and rather dated logic used since the Scopes trial really.