To my First Nations brothers and sisters

[Zoness]

I've been catching up on the videos. Interesting stuff, its truly awful what has happened to these people.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I am not Aboriginal, but we were made by the same God so we are brothers and sisters in humanity. My fellow Aboriginal Christians here are also my brothers and sisters in Christ.

I found a YouTube music video that I'd like to share. This is about some of the accomplishments of Aboriginal Canadians, and something I think every person in my country should check out, especially those who still subscribe to the arrogant and false notion that First Nations peoples are somehow worse than other Canadians... or should I say the newcomers. Whether those of us who are non-Aboriginal came as immigrants or whether our ancestors helped drive you from your lands, we are in your country. Often we forget this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ul4KmHlzMc

There was actually an amazing documentary on the issue that I was very thankful for - as seen here in the following:

• The Canary Effect: Kill the Indian, Save the Man (2006) | Watch the Full Documentary Online

The Canary Effect follows the abuses instilled upon the Indigenous people of North America, the genocidal practices of the US government and its continuing affects on present day Indian country.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Given the role the Christian religion played not only in robbing the American natives of their ancestral land ("Manifest Destiny"), but also in actively destroying their culture to this day (assimilation), I find it more than a little bizarre that any person of native American heritage would embrace Christianity.

It feels like Stockholm syndrome, except that the hostages in this case give up their distinct identity and then proceed to do the same to others.

Or must I remind anyone of the sheer abomination called "American Indian boarding schools"?

 

[WoodrowX2]

Given the role the Christian religion played not only in robbing the American natives of their ancestral land ("Manifest Destiny"), but also in actively destroying their culture to this day (assimilation), I find it more than a little bizarre that any person of native American heritage would embrace Christianity.

It feels like Stockholm syndrome, except that the hostages in this case give up their distinct identity and then proceed to do the same to others.

Or must I remind anyone of the sheer abomination called "American Indian boarding schools"?

My wife escaped from one of those boarding schools and returned to the rez. The Wasicu Schools still leave a touch of anger towards Christianity.

You might notice that Missionaries are still being sent to the Reservations.

A pattern I see on Pine Ridge, Cheyenne River, and Standing Rock. The most common Wasicu Building will be an abandoned Church,

The missionaries comes, build churches the Lakotah come and join such as often they bring a few part time temporary jobs for small construction work.

So there are many converts who call them self Christian act like wasicu when in the company of wasicu but live the red road. After a year or 3 the wasicu ordain some Enay as pstor of the Church and the wasicu leace. The Lakotah then strip the church building of anything they can use and abandon it. They return to the Red Road until the next batch of Missionaries come on the Rez.

I am out on the reservations quite often, I call Cheyenne River and Pine Ridge hone. I just happen to have a permanent off rez address that is a handy place to stay when I am not on the Rez. to be honest my health would not survive a winter on the rez.

My heart and thoughts stay at Wounded Knee but come winter this old worn out body turns chicken and migrates to our Wasicu house.

There are many attempts to wipe out the Lakotah religion many parts of the "Red Road" have been made illegal such as the Sun Dance and the Ghost Dance. But they are still practiced when it is known no Wasicu are present. They are silly laws that are not enfoceable as the Lakotah Reservations are under treaty not State or Federal law.

The Lakotah that embrace Christianity and other Wasicu ways are considered to be Twinkies on Lakota reservations and not taken seriously by the tribal members.

Oddly for Statistical purposes the people on the reservations are called Christians, but in life nearly all worship Wakan-Tonka and live the religion of the old ones.

Also Islam is popular among the Enay and there are Enay Muslims as evidenced by my wife's Family.

Many of the earliest settlers in the Dakotas were Syrian Fur traders. Some of who came to be accepted into the tribes.

Also going back to the days of the Spanish. There were Muslims among the Conquistadors and Native Americans that accepted Islam because of them.

Islam has been in North America longer than some Christian denominations. But it seems to stay within family lines.

 

[WoodrowX2]

As Columbus day is being Celebrated today. Here is a reminder of what Columbus brought to the Lakotah

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3HpvJn9FSc[/youtube]

 

[Zoness]

I happy to say that at least among people my age, today as a holiday has fallen out of favor. The older entrenched majority decry it as "political correctness going too far" but frankly Columbus is not a figure worth celebrating and really is only propped up by American Catholics via organizations such as the Knights of Columbus.

 

[dcalling]

Given the role the Christian religion played not only in robbing the American natives of their ancestral land ("Manifest Destiny"), but also in actively destroying their culture to this day (assimilation), I find it more than a little bizarre that any person of native American heritage would embrace Christianity.

It feels like Stockholm syndrome, except that the hostages in this case give up their distinct identity and then proceed to do the same to others.

Or must I remind anyone of the sheer abomination called "American Indian boarding schools"?

When you say "role of Christian religion", that is way over the top. The Christian religion itself is very peaceful, second only to Buddhism (which not only won't hurt humans, all animals are protected as well).

If all Christians practice the teaching of NT, none of this will even happen. Not only Christians are commanded to love their neighbor as themselves, they are commanded to love their enemy, and not even fight back when attacked.

However as with all religions, there are people who does whatever they want, not to mention Christianity is always on the decline in US (I remember a story our history professor told us in college, where a man in a local village was asked why he went fishing and not in church on Sunday, and he said he need to make money).

So if the native Americans can see through blind hatred, why not Christianity?

 

[Zoness]

When you say "role of Christian religion", that is way over the top. The Christian religion itself is very peaceful, second only to Buddhism (which not only won't hurt humans, all animals are protected as well).

If all Christians practice the teaching of NT, none of this will even happen. Not only Christians are commanded to love their neighbor as themselves, they are commanded to love their enemy, and not even fight back when attacked.

However as with all religions, there are people who does whatever they want, not to mention Christianity is always on the decline in US (I remember a story our history professor told us in college, where a man in a local village was asked why he went fishing and not in church on Sunday, and he said he need to make money).

So if the native Americans can see through blind hatred, why not Christianity?

Christianity and "civilizing the brutes" WAS the Casus Belli for centuries of native American genocide at the hands of various European groups. Even if in theory Christianity didn't stop these practices it damn sure didn't try very hard to stop it. I can see why native Americans would be skeptical of trusting Christians who are mostly foreign interlopers.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I happy to say that at least among people my age, today as a holiday has fallen out of favor. The older entrenched majority decry it as "political correctness going too far" but frankly Columbus is not a figure worth celebrating and really is only propped up by American Catholics via organizations such as the Knights of Columbus.

Indeed - Columbus himself was and will always be a criminal...

• Christopher Columbus was awful (but this other guy was not) - The Oatmeal

​

 

[dcalling]

Christianity and "civilizing the brutes" WAS the Casus Belli for centuries of native American genocide at the hands of various European groups. Even if in theory Christianity didn't stop these practices it damn sure didn't try very hard to stop it. I can see why native Americans would be skeptical of trusting Christians who are mostly foreign interlopers.

You can't blame people's greed on Christianity, when Jesus said Love your neighbor as yourself, or love of money is the root of all evil, and the guys claim to be Christians doing the bad things all in contradictory.

In fact, if people has done what Christ has taught, none of this will happen.

Civilizing the brutes is not a Christianity idea, it is more of a Darwinist idea, where people with worldly knowledge arrogantly assume their way is better.

 

[TG123]

Given the role the Christian religion played not only in robbing the American natives of their ancestral land ("Manifest Destiny"), but also in actively destroying their culture to this day (assimilation), I find it more than a little bizarre that any person of native American heritage would embrace Christianity.

It feels like Stockholm syndrome, except that the hostages in this case give up their distinct identity and then proceed to do the same to others.

Or must I remind anyone of the sheer abomination called "American Indian boarding schools"?

I am going to echo what dcalling already stated, but the "Christian religion" was not responsible for the stealing of this land and destruction of Aboriginal culture and the residential schools. People who disobeyed its teachings and used it as a weapon against the innocent, were.

What do you find "bizzare" about an Aboriginal person becoming a Christian? If they read and understand what Jesus taught, they will know that the horrific crimes perpetrated against them were not done by people who were actually His followers.

 

[TG123]

My wife escaped from one of those boarding schools and returned to the rez. The Wasicu Schools still leave a touch of anger towards Christianity.

You might notice that Missionaries are still being sent to the Reservations.

A pattern I see on Pine Ridge, Cheyenne River, and Standing Rock. The most common Wasicu Building will be an abandoned Church,

The missionaries comes, build churches the Lakotah come and join such as often they bring a few part time temporary jobs for small construction work.

So there are many converts who call them self Christian act like wasicu when in the company of wasicu but live the red road. After a year or 3 the wasicu ordain some Enay as pstor of the Church and the wasicu leace. The Lakotah then strip the church building of anything they can use and abandon it. They return to the Red Road until the next batch of Missionaries come on the Rez.

I am out on the reservations quite often, I call Cheyenne River and Pine Ridge hone. I just happen to have a permanent off rez address that is a handy place to stay when I am not on the Rez. to be honest my health would not survive a winter on the rez.

My heart and thoughts stay at Wounded Knee but come winter this old worn out body turns chicken and migrates to our Wasicu house.

There are many attempts to wipe out the Lakotah religion many parts of the "Red Road" have been made illegal such as the Sun Dance and the Ghost Dance. But they are still practiced when it is known no Wasicu are present. They are silly laws that are not enfoceable as the Lakotah Reservations are under treaty not State or Federal law.

The Lakotah that embrace Christianity and other Wasicu ways are considered to be Twinkies on Lakota reservations and not taken seriously by the tribal members.

Oddly for Statistical purposes the people on the reservations are called Christians, but in life nearly all worship Wakan-Tonka and live the religion of the old ones.

Also Islam is popular among the Enay and there are Enay Muslims as evidenced by my wife's Family.

Many of the earliest settlers in the Dakotas were Syrian Fur traders. Some of who came to be accepted into the tribes.

Also going back to the days of the Spanish. There were Muslims among the Conquistadors and Native Americans that accepted Islam because of them.

Islam has been in North America longer than some Christian denominations. But it seems to stay within family lines.

Salaam Alaikum. I am very sorry to hear about what your wife had gone through. In the church I go to, we have First Nations peoples who have also lived through these horrors. We have a man who witnessed his brother being beaten to death by a priest. In spite of this, he is a Christian. He knows that the horrific crimes he experienced were done by the people who were disobeying and abusing, not following, the Christian faith.

I am extremely outraged to hear that even now, it is illegal for your people to practice some of their traditions. I had no idea that the US is still this messed up- I mean I know that both my government and your government have sunk down to lows and continue to, but not that they'd still be doing this in the 21st century.

I'm sad to hear that Lakotah First Nations peoples who are Christians are considered a derogatory term (how different is "Twinkie" from "wigger"?) and are not taken seriously by others. To me, that sounds like religious discrimination.

It wouldn't be unlike looking down on Americans who converted to Islam after 9/11, or Armenians who are Muslims. If they can make the distinction between the religion and the crimes that were carried out in its name, why can't Aboriginal Christians?

 

[NannaNae]

I am going to echo what dcalling already stated, but the "Christian religion" was not responsible for the stealing of this land and destruction of Aboriginal culture and the residential schools. People who disobeyed its teachings and used it as a weapon against the innocent, were.

What do you find "bizzare" about an Aboriginal person becoming a Christian? If they read and understand what Jesus taught, they will know that the horrific crimes perpetrated against them were not done by people who were actually His followers.

yes the real christians were always actually some of the ones who did help and were a refuge when politics of the US lies caused politics in the tribes to start internal civil wars with in the tribes. and indians started murdering each other..
almost just as many of my indian family that were killed by whites as there was indians killed from indians in the same tribe as them .

so now who do I blame?
I blame hell..
I blame man
not God.. certainly not Jesus . certainly not the christians who were there when no one else was.
I think all mankind looks pretty rotten from my point of reference .

mankind is just kind of scuzzy... and we need a saviour.
blood laws were always without mercy.. and I like Abraham and God's laws best.
jesus understand mercy and indian law didn't .

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

I am going to echo what dcalling already stated, but the "Christian religion" was not responsible for the stealing of this land and destruction of Aboriginal culture and the residential schools. People who disobeyed its teachings and used it as a weapon against the innocent, were.

What do you find "bizzare" about an Aboriginal person becoming a Christian? If they read and understand what Jesus taught, they will know that the horrific crimes perpetrated against them were not done by people who were actually His followers.

Let me ask you this:

Do you think it possible to become a Christian while simultaneously holding on to aboriginal culture - *including* their religious traditions? There have been some attempts at syncretism, mixing native American spirituality with Christianity; but I'd wager that most believers would consider this a dangerous corruption of the One True Faith, a lukewarm mix that dilutes the "TRUTH" with pagan superstition.

Cultural assimilation is the biggest threat to distinct Native American identities, a deceptively slow process of elimination that aims at people's spirits and minds rather than their bodies, as in the case of genocide. And Christianity has been a chief instrument of this process ever since the very beginning of colonization.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Cultural genocide starts with the small things: telling people that to go around "naked" (by Western sensibilities) is unchaste and sinful. Providing schools that imbue them with a different culture's values and outlooks. Encouraging them to give up their own language - not necessarily by force, but by gradually insinuating that their own tongue carries no social prestige, and that assimilating to the economically superior settlers will elevate their status. And - last but not least - by sending proselytizers who convert them to an exclusivist religion, basically telling them that all of their own traditions are worthless and "only Jesus saves".

Granted, Islam is even worse in this regard, as it is even more tightly bound to a distinct cultural tradition, to the point where its holy scripture can ONLY be properly read in Arabic. But looking at Christianity, it's pretty much responsible for the destruction of indigenous religions all around the globe. Regardless of whether we look at Theodosius I.'s anti-pagan laws, the Taliban-style destruction of sacred trees in present-day Germany at the hands of Anglo-Saxon missionaries, or pretty much the entire history of colonialism on every continent out there.

 

[Zoness]

You can't blame people's greed on Christianity, when Jesus said Love your neighbor as yourself, or love of money is the root of all evil, and the guys claim to be Christians doing the bad things all in contradictory.

In fact, if people has done what Christ has taught, none of this will happen.

Civilizing the brutes is not a Christianity idea, it is more of a Darwinist idea, where people with worldly knowledge arrogantly assume their way is better.

I have not the remotest clue why you brought the bolded section in especially since the progressive annihilation of native culture came centuries before Darwin was even born. But it doesn't look as if you were intending to use the term as anything other than an insult anyways.

Sorry but Christianity isn't guilt free in this regard. Sure you can blame "the nature of man" but the fact is we (as in European descendants) and our governments propagated this destruction. Christianity's great commission made a great excuse for "civilizing the brute" which helped plenty in quelling dissent ("You want to live with natives? I thought you were a good Christian!"). The facts as they stand is that the destruction of native American civilization is a product of white, Western European and mostly Christian culture.

I realize the term cultural and even literal genocide makes Americans and Canadians uncomfortable since we are notoriously good at eschewing blame for things and claiming to be "just nations" but the reality is America and Canada did wipe these people out passively and aggressively. The symbol of the White Anglo-Saxon Protestant family in North America is the symbol of that for better or worse.

Christianity isn't a religion that by its texts directly says "wipe out all of those who disagree" but the great commission carries a lot of weight and it is easy to interpret in one's own frame of reference. A key point of Christianity is that its believers believe they are the only ones who understand the world in a spiritual context. That's fine but obviously that is the sort of stuff where these mentalities begin. Islam is guilty of this too, they only get off easy in this post because it wasn't their fault in particular about what happened to native Americans.

 

[TG123]

Let me ask you this:

Do you think it possible to become a Christian while simultaneously holding on to aboriginal culture - *including* their religious traditions? There have been some attempts at syncretism, mixing native American spirituality with Christianity; but I'd wager that most believers would consider this a dangerous corruption of the One True Faith, a lukewarm mix that dilutes the "TRUTH" with pagan superstition.

Cultural assimilation is the biggest threat to distinct Native American identities, a deceptively slow process of elimination that aims at people's spirits and minds rather than their bodies, as in the case of genocide. And Christianity has been a chief instrument of this process ever since the very beginning of colonization.

A Christian would obviously not be able to hold on to religious traditions that conflict with what the Bible teaches, and would be free to make the choice to follow one or the other. There are many Aboriginal Christians I know, and they have held on to some parts of their culture, but rejected those which would cause them to compromise their beliefs as Christians.

Those First Nations peoples in Canada today who are Christian, are Christian by choice. Lots of horrid things were done in the past- even some decades ago- but Christianity is no longer compulsory (thank God!) for anyone in my country.

Those First Nations peoples who are Christians- like everyone else- remain in the faith by choice, not compulsion.

 

[TG123]

Also consider this, though. If a First Nations person were to have to switch to some other non-monotheistic religion, he or she would also need to give up part of their cultural heritage.

Jainism forbids killing of any animals, yet hunting is an important part of many Aboriginal cultures, especially of the Native kids whom I often work with. Would you feel an Aboriginal person converting to Jainism was "a distinct threat" to First Nations culture, or would you respect the right of the person to follow the religion he or she feels is true, even if it would mean not following anymore some parts of their culture?

 

[dcalling]

Cultural genocide starts with the small things: telling people that to go around "naked" (by Western sensibilities) is unchaste and sinful. Providing schools that imbue them with a different culture's values and outlooks. Encouraging them to give up their own language - not necessarily by force, but by gradually insinuating that their own tongue carries no social prestige, and that assimilating to the economically superior settlers will elevate their status. And - last but not least - by sending proselytizers who convert them to an exclusivist religion, basically telling them that all of their own traditions are worthless and "only Jesus saves".

If it is forced, then it is wrong, but if it is been done properly (no compulsion), then it is just free speech, and people accept/reject a faith based on their own thought.

Also proselytizing is not necessarily bad, it is like someone likes chocolate and want to tell others how good it is, as long as they don't force it on others.

Granted, Islam is even worse in this regard, as it is even more tightly bound to a distinct cultural tradition, to the point where its holy scripture can ONLY be properly read in Arabic. But looking at Christianity, it's pretty much responsible for the destruction of indigenous religions all around the globe. Regardless of whether we look at Theodosius I.'s anti-pagan laws, the Taliban-style destruction of sacred trees in present-day Germany at the hands of Anglo-Saxon missionaries, or pretty much the entire history of colonialism on every continent out there.

 

[dcalling]

I have not the remotest clue why you brought the bolded section in especially since the progressive annihilation of native culture came centuries before Darwin was even born. But it doesn't look as if you were intending to use the term as anything other than an insult anyways.

The idea of stronger wins didn't start with Darwin, but Darwin certainly summarized it well. I don't know why you take it as insult, because without God, that is totally right and logical.

Sorry but Christianity isn't guilt free in this regard. Sure you can blame "the nature of man" but the fact is we (as in European descendants) and our governments propagated this destruction. Christianity's great commission made a great excuse for "civilizing the brute" which helped plenty in quelling dissent ("You want to live with natives? I thought you were a good Christian!"). The facts as they stand is that the destruction of native American civilization is a product of white, Western European and mostly Christian culture.

Is that even logical? Find any scripture in NT that says you must civilize the brute (or anything of similar tendency). That is not from the scripture, that is from the modern man, arrogant with their advance of knowledge and think their way are the best.

Jesus instead told his followers love others as themselfs, love their enemies, don't judge others, and if others don't listen, simply shake off dust from the shoes and leave.

I realize the term cultural and even literal genocide makes Americans and Canadians uncomfortable since we are notoriously good at eschewing blame for things and claiming to be "just nations" but the reality is America and Canada did wipe these people out passively and aggressively. The symbol of the White Anglo-Saxon Protestant family in North America is the symbol of that for better or worse.

That is their issue, not Christianity's issue. And I am not white so I don't have such guilt. You don't need to assume that all Christians are white Americans.

Christianity isn't a religion that by its texts directly says "wipe out all of those who disagree" but the great commission carries a lot of weight and it is easy to interpret in one's own frame of reference. A key point of Christianity is that its believers believe they are the only ones who understand the world in a spiritual context. That's fine but obviously that is the sort of stuff where these mentalities begin. Islam is guilty of this too, they only get off easy in this post because it wasn't their fault in particular about what happened to native Americans.

If you look at the NT, there is nothing violent there, nothing tells people to kill, to revenge (and in fact it said specificly not to do so), it tells of love, not hate, even to your enemies, and to the extend even if someone slaps you in the face, not only not to defend, but give the other half to be slapped.

But it also tell us that we are all sinners, none can do what God commanded. Just imagine that given all the commands and people still do bad stuff, it will be 100x worse if those people didn't follow Christianity at all (there will be no bounds as what people can do).